Have Zelda games gotten too easy? Not necessarily. Dathen of Zeldainformer claims that Zelda veterans find the new games easy because they already know how all the puzzles work from experience with previous Zelda games, and that the way to make Zelda challenging again is to create new types of puzzles. You can read the article here.
This does seem to make a lot of sense, and would explain a lot of things. For example, the reason why veterans of the series are so much more critical of Twilight Princess than the new players – the veterans are practically playing a different game to the newbies in terms of difficulty.
The fascinating and clever puzzles that the newbies see when playing TP are just textbook cases of “Zelda Puzzle 13A” or “Block Pushing Maneuver 6B” for the veterans. It will be interesting to see if Nintendo will be able to come up with something new so that the veterans can have a challenge too.
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October 17th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Personally, it doesn't really matter to me. I always LOVE Zelda, regardless of how long it takes to beat it.
October 17th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
They should get help from the guy who created Professor Layton, There's some cool block-sliding and other puzzles there xD
October 17th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
When fans complain about Zelda being too easy it's not so much puzzles as being able to complete the game without any Game Overs. Link takes almost no damage from enemies and the AI is too simple.
October 17th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
I agree with nokotin.
First time I played Wind Waker, I finished without a single Game Over. That's the first time that happened with any Zelda game, and I had played all of the ones released up until then.
Then Twilight Princess comes along and it's even worse. At least with Wind Waker I'd get a lot of the annoying beeping hearts, but even that wasn't much of a problem in TP.
I STILL die when replaying OoT, even after countless replays.
October 17th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
I still don't get it. You people ACTUALLY WANT TO DIE? YOU WANT GAME OVERS?
if thats what your talking about when you say "Zelda games are to easy" then yes, I'll have to agree with you; in wind waker and TP I did not get a lot of game overs. BUT THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A GOOD THING!!! WHY THE HELL WOULD SOMEBODY WANT A GAME OVER!? THAT'S LIKE WANTING AN F ON YOU REPORT CARD!
A "challenging game" and a game that kills you over and over again are NOT the same thing. I think this guy is totally right. I'm not sure if I really count as a veteran, seeing how Wind Waker was my first Zelda game, but for all you people who've been playing Zelda since '87, well, maybe you've been playing it TO long.
October 17th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
This makes a lot of sense. Brilliant!
October 17th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
bueno algo is algo o no??hey ya saben que zelda puede salir para DS??
October 17th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
ChainOfTermina – Yes, we want to die, and want game over screens. Imagine if you didn't lose a life, ever, playing Super Mario Bros. Like, not even a threat to lose a life. Now, look at Zelda today. There is Zero threat to any of us ever really dieing. The cave of ordeals is the closest thing in awhile, and thats a small, side part, of the game, and not part of the main quest. I mean, the cave is harder then every boss in the game. Thats wrong.
The point in seeing game over screens is that something was difficult enough that we can't mash a few buttons, waggle a remote a bunch of times, and kill everything. Or that a boss was exactly easy to figure out how to beat "HEY GIANT WEAK SPOT RIGHT HERE!"
Thats the idea here. We want more game overs, because it means that we are being challenged to the point that we need to play better, or come up with a better strategy, to win. In mario, if I never died, it would be boring. Thats the issue with Zelda. If there is nothing that can kill me, whats the point?
October 18th, 2009 at 12:10 am
the point is to be entertained with a fantastical world to explore. I don't really play ANY Mario games that much. it's kinda boring. just "jump on this enemy, jump onto this platform jump in this pattern jump jump jump". argue all you want, but the fact is Mario has virtually no story. the cut seines in Mario galaxy were a joke- I'm still not really sure what the hell Bowser was trying to do- oh wait yes I do- the exact same thing he's always done. and the older Mario games, I ALWAYS die in those. haven't beaten a single Mario game before Mario 64. not a one. if its not falling into a pit its running into, or even jumping into an enemy. when I get power ups it lasts for maybe 45 seconds before i get downgraded, and then smaller, then die. There's a reason I like Zelda better than Mario- Zelda has a wide world of side quests and exploration, with people and monsters and a great story to tell. Mario's just a bunch of obstacle courses.
though, you do have a point. yeah, i guess I do wish Nintendo was a little more creative with the fighting, but I'm just sick of people complaining that Zelda has gotten TO easy. I think its just fine. not to hard. not to easy. it's fine. but then I guess I'm just a mediocre gamer. I couldn't even really do the cave of ordeals, my cousin did it for me. game overs mean you were to stupid not to make that fatal mistake, and now you have to do that whole thing over again from the beginning. and thats annoying. really annoying.
but hey, if you want to be annoyed, if you want to fail, then by all means
October 18th, 2009 at 10:07 am
"The Adventure of Link is known for being the hardest of the series" WHAT??? That game is super easy, I used to go to the Great Palace without ever getting hit once on my way there! And that's before your lifes soar into the alfabet! It's really hard on a Game Cube controller though (analog stick!). I'm am Error in believing that Ganon owned all of my base! I hope they would make hard Zelda, and I'm not just talking about PUZZLES! I remember when the difficulty level of a game was wheather you were ALIVE! I want to get killed by SUPER GOONS that the boss is sending out against me. I want to lurk in the forest, fearing the openedness of Hyrule field where I could get SPOTTED! I want to travell by night and have to avoid enemies that I don't even have any weapons to kill yet. Wouldn't Zelda be fun if you couldn't stay at one place for too long? Because the boss would hear where you are and start sending people after you? So if you stay in a dungeon for too long it would soon be overwhelmed with enemies and you would have no choice than to beat the dungeon, because the entrance is too crowded with enemies who want to kill you trying to get in to get out? Make Zelda HARDER! Especially since it takes so long to MAKE a Zelda game. I don't think we should be talking about the DIFFICULTY level of Zelda! Also I would like to see more self emergent complexity in Zelda, perhaps all the NPCs don't have to be carefully scripted to be interesting. Also I never understood why Ganon didn't just leave his dungeon and come after Link, say before he's got all he's weapons, why does the bad guy wait idly in his dungeon while the hero is powering up?
October 18th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Um, when people talk about Zelda games being too easy, they're usually talking about the enemies – not the puzzles, making that whole article pretty much moot.
Also, the suggestion that different types of puzzles would fix the difficulty problem seems a bit off, considering we already have a game that features VERY different types of puzzles, yet fans still find it too easy (Phantom Hourglass, by the way). Phantom Hourglass has very unique types of puzzles, which focus on memorization and taking notes rather than typical "Zelda logic", yet Phantom Hourglass is one of the most heavily criticized Zelda games in terms of difficulty.
To fix the difficulty problem, Nintendo needs to address enemy AI issues, not puzzles.
Personally though, I don't care about how difficult the Zelda games are, because I don't think that difficulty is what makes games fun nowadays. I can understand why veteran gamers might think that modern Zelda games aren't fun because of their low difficulty, and that's because back during the NES/SNES era, the only reason why people played games was to be challenged – challenge was the only thing that made games fun. Nowadays, games are fun for a whole bunch of other reasons, like aesthetics and storylines, but a lot of veteran gamers disagree because they grew up thinking differently.
October 18th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
hasn't the gameoverthinker already mentioned this?
good stuff though!
October 18th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
I've been playing Zelda ever since the NES days. I do agree that when veterans of any game series/genre, like Zelda, they need to have more difficulty when a new game comes out, otherwise, it's just a bunch of pushing blocks, and shooting objects with the arrows to open doors.
I do, however, disagree that every single game needs to be harder than the original. When future, Zelda "noobs" get their first impression on Twilight Princess, they will love it, because they are starting out on a easy level. Almost like Nintendo is purposely making their newer games the same skill level. That way, no "noobie" will ever get frustrated and turned off by a new Zelda game.
I do think that the Nintendo is trying to fix that, by building a "Help Feature" and skill setting. It would be a great addition if Zelda had that. I think that's what Nintendo is doing, they want to make games harder, but they don't want to intimidate and turn off any new coming gamers. This feature will please both parties, the Noobs and The Vets.
October 18th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Yeah I have to agree. Getting a game over and having a challenge are NOT the same thing. I freakin' hate it when I die over and over again. I'm on a zelda hiatus right now because I don't even want to play the stupid game if I'm just going to keep dying. Who knows, maybe I just suck at video games but I find it quite obnoxious to keep dying and dying and dying and dying and dying.
October 18th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
The thing is, I'm a little more casual of a gamer compared to the rest of you hardcore Zelda fans. If I had the time and energy to devote to playing Zelda I might be on your side. But if I spend the one hour I have every week night just dying and dying like I always do, I usually give up. I like a challenge but… I also like to win. Twilight princess happens to be my very favorite game to play because I feel like I can do anything. You're right, I don't feel threatened and I'm not afraid of dying. But you know, I like it. I like being to feel superior to the game. Easy or hard, whatever…
October 18th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
I totally agree with you. I hate mario for those very reasons. Never beaten one. And I too am sick of people complaining about Zelda becoming too easy. The only game I have to complain about for Zelda is wind waker. It was easy. Not gonna lie.
October 18th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
my first zelda game was Phantom Hourglass. From what you're saying I must be a zelda noob. That makes me kind of sad… because after I beat it I wasn;t turned off as you've said. Since then I've moved on to try and beat the whole series of games. The older games are much much harder. Majora's Mask? Freakin' annoying. I'm in the great bay temple and I can't beat the boss. I AM frustrated. I haven't been playing games since the 1980s like the whole "hardcore" fans.
October 18th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
I've been playing zelda since I was three when Ocarina of time was on the N64. I've played most of the big games (By big I mean like OOT MM TP WW and that, not so much the handheld ones)
I agree with the fact that wind waker and twilight princess are 'easier' in the fact that because we've played all the puzzels before we know what to do, but that doesn't make the game anyless enjoyable does it?
It's Zelda. I'm a Zelda addicted freak. If they made a zelda game where it was impossible to die I wouldn't care, it's still zelda.
October 18th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
No he is wrong, it is also the difficulty of enemies, I remember some enemies in OOT and MM would take away 3 or 4 hearts from 1 hit, nothing of the sort was seen in TP at all, even against Ganondorf.
Bosses are another example, in TP everything was thrown out in the open for you, not once did I even have to guess how to beat a boss because it was so blatantly put out there that you'd have to be mentally ill not to see it.
Huge example of this predicament with the bosses was the swordfight against Ganondorf in TP, the "chance" attack thing, it was clearly noted at the bottom of the screen what you had to do and when you had to press the button.
Now simply taking that away would increase difficulty, because then we would have to guess at how to really beat Ganondorf. Go back to OOT, when you fought Ganondorf and knocked his energy balls back at him. There was NO NOTIFICATION of what you had to do after that, players had to figure out that they had to then shoot Ganondorf with Light arrows. This is proof right here that the games are indeed being made easier.
The undeniable fact is that newer Zelda games spoon-feed the player too much information on how to get past obstacles, solve puzzles and defeat enemies/bosses. It's just fact, deny it if you want, you'll only make a fool of yourself when the games themselves give such clear examples.
October 18th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Wow, you suck at platforming games then HA, don't whine to baby down the difficulty for the rest of us though
October 18th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
My first game was in like 1994(I was 4), and I beat MM, WTF are you talking about, you must suck at games if you can't beat it, I agree MM was the hardest zelda game I ever played but that made it my most favorite one
You're supposed to be angry at the boss of a game, you're supposed to want to beat the living crap out of it, that's part of what makes it a boss, it puts you in the situation and connects you to the game more
In TP you have no fear or emotions for the bosses or enemies in general and you don't have to take precautions against a boss because they're all too damn easy, I felt way too disconnected from TP, I couldn't put myself in the game and that majorly dissapointed me
October 18th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
I do agree with you there, but people need to stop moaning that there getting to easy, its just cause we're used to all the puzzles and how to kill all the enimies.
October 18th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
And they reuse bosses in EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Gohma's bean in about five games now, and guess what? her eye is always the weak spot. But you know it's zelda so I don't really care either way, I just feal like moaning cause everyone else is -_-
October 18th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
THANK YOU!
October 18th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Yeah, like I said, it would be nice if the bosses were a little more inventive, but the individual enemies are just fine. In TP I get hearts taken away all the time.
October 18th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Agreed. Zelda has a system. Of course it's going to be easy once you figure it out. I just suck at hitting buttons.
October 18th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
I'm sure we're not the only ones who feel this way. I wish Nintendo would just implement multiple difficulty levels. I think that would solve the problem.
October 19th, 2009 at 2:16 am
No. I can still go back to the 2D games and get my ass kicked. I can't remember the last time I died in OoT unless I was just being careless or stupid.
October 19th, 2009 at 6:13 am
The only Zelda games ive played are TP, Minish Cap, Oracle Of Ages and Zelda 3. All those games except Zelda 3 were rather easy. I think the problem is once you figure out how to fight the enemy everything falls into place and you lose very few hearts. However Zelda 3 offered quite a challenge. I think they need to look at what they previously did a go from there
October 19th, 2009 at 8:20 am
The funny thing is that as much as I agree with the statement that Zelda games are only easy because we as Zelda fans know what to expect… the truth is that doing different puzzles isn't going to make for a more challenging game.
For starters I consider myself a Zelda veteran… the first Zelda game was the very original Legend of Zelda… I was 4 or 5 years old at the time when I first played Zelda. So literally the game was difficult for me for several reasons… one I was just beginning at video games, and second my brain was probably still developing and learning how to solve puzzles and so forth.
At this point the puzzles are in fact a fair amount more elaborate then they ever were in the original Zelda game. which brings me to my issue with the statement that Zelda puzzles need to be different. I don't think people realize it but for the most part Phantom Houglass was probably the freshest take on Zelda puzzles ever. There were quite a few new puzzles introduced that required new methods to solve… whether drawing an image, taking notes on maps, or even closing the game system even. Phantom Hourglass actually had new and different Zelda puzzles in it.
Having different puzzles doesn't make for difficult puzzles in the end though. The Water Temple was not dastardly because it was a different puzzle, it was because it was a complex and intricate system that forced you to literally run around the temple trying every combination possible to make your way through it. It was hard to figure out what level to put the water at in order to reach different areas on the map. Forcing the player to develop a system and actually relying on the map to find ones way.
In the end though to simply raise the difficulty of puzzles can sadly reduce a players likely hood to persevere. As the article's author even said…. he'd drop Zelda titles and pick them up weeks later… even months later… from being frustrated with a puzzle. Sadly today's gamers don't have the dedication to stick to a game… if a game is too hard, to them it's a bad game. You trade it in or stop playing it all together. Get something with a more instant gratification.
It's the reason why you don't hear about games having "Game Over" anymore… where you have respawn points (I'm looking at you Halo) that let you start over as many times as you like until you manage to stumble your way through to the end. They will throw tonnes of continues and 1-Up's your way… just so you don't get discouraged and give up and stop playing the game.
It's why you don't see games that are as difficult as they were back in the NES and SNES era… sadly the younger generations of gamers don't have the attention span or tolerance to try and try again when they fail. So it's a struggle to get that challenging Zelda game… one where you actually lose a lot of hearts when you are attacked by a mob of enemies or from a massive bosses huge attack. Or puzzles that are elaborate and can't simply be solved by staying in that room.
I would love to see some brilliant puzzles similar to the style of Professor Layton but sadly then people would likely become to frustrated to have to stop and actually use their brain in an adventure game. Anyhow one day… maybe one day we will see that change.
October 19th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
I'm sorry but that games HAVE gotten easier. I still can't be the original Zeldas. And TP.. I don't think I died once. Even my 12 year-old sister had no difficulty with WW and TP. However she can't even attempt to tackle OoT and MM.
The games have gotten easier. Period.
…Not the bloody kind.
October 20th, 2009 at 12:58 am
Dudes lemme give ya a little hint about making a better zelda title. It's not the 'challenge' its the STORY. How the hell many more times will I need to kill gannondorf?! God, that's like Batman VS the Joker in every episode! Or Optimus VS Megatron in every transformers movie/show. (For those who don't know Megatron RARELY fights himself, except in beast wars.)
Another challenge would be the bosses definately, I'm a hard core Sonic fan. So I know how to spot weakpoints like they had a ***ing big "Hit me here" sign on them. My opinion, don't make the weakpoints harder to find, but harder to GET TO. know what I'm saying? Most zelda bosses have two to three steps in getting to a weakpoint, and that's it. not very challenging if they shove the ***ing weakpoint right in your face at the opening cinimatic. Such as in The battle with Stallord and the boss in the Goron Mines.
October 20th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
That's what I'm syaing. It doesn't matter when you start playing zelda games, old or new. We all know that the older zelda games were harder, because they took more time with the engine of the games. I can always play "A link to the past" and die all the time even in the earlier bosses.
Bosses need to be harder in the new zelda games, just like everyone says, it gives the player a better playing experience.
October 20th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
So you guys know, the average gamer shouldn't get very many, if any, "game over" screens in older Zelda titles such as Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask. Don't let nostalgia fool you; they were easy as fuck as well.
October 20th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
"older Zelda titles such as Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask."
Lol. Try LoZ, AoL, and ALttP and talk to me about not getting game overs.
October 26th, 2009 at 1:16 am
I should probebly translate for this dude,so here goes.
Well something is something,right??Hey,u guys know that Zelda could come out for DS??
yea i'm Mexican and we alredy know that Zelda IS already for DS,but probebly has'nt in Mexico.
Shiek001,en los Estados Unidos ya salio Zelda para el DS.
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:02 pm
The first Zelda games were fricken hard, OOT was a little easier, MM was harder because you only had a few days to finish it, But Twilight Princess was sssoooo easy! and so was WW, my cousin beat it at least 14 times! in not even a year!!!
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Travis, you got a point. the old loz's were so hard!!! the new ones i beat in a couple days!!!!
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:10 pm
And for any new ones that havn't come out yet, i hope they have something to do with the Wii Motion Plus! and it should have multiplayer too there havn't been any multiplayer zelda games for a while! the only ones were four swords and WW that i can think of, and ww co-op sucked!
November 2nd, 2009 at 7:12 pm
multiplayer would be so fun for zelda! and so would the WMP! i like the way you think Travis!