The official LoZ Timeline discussion thread

I do, however, have one question: how does any of what you said correlate to the fact that we know, courtesy of TP, that the Ancient Sages - who are the closest correlation to the Sages as described in ALttP - don't exist on the AT (instead being replaced by the Seven Sages as seen in the second half of OoT)?

TP text dumpAs far as this text dump is concerned, the only mention of "Ancient Sages" refers to the Master Sword, not the Sages we met in the Arbiters Grounds. The sages are not described in ALTTP other than in an image. I admit the sages better resemble Hylians or Skeikah more than they do any other race. However that does not mean they look like Hylians or Sheikah. Those sages have faces floating in front of their heads, floating discs for legs, no wrists and halos. We all know Hylians have all of those *sarcasm*.

ALTTP text dump

They say the Hylian people
mastered mysterious powers,
as did the seven sages.

Why are the Hylia and the sages mentioned separately? The only explanation is that at least some of the sages were not Hylian.

But the blood of the Hylia has
grown thin over time. And we
who carry the blood of the
sages do not possess our
ancestors' powers, either.

Once again the blood of the Hylia and the blood of the sages is mentioned separately.

As far as the appearance of ALTTP's sages as old men, I believe OoT retconed it a long time ago. The appearance of the sages in TP is nothing to go on. They don't even look alive, much less human. Besides, if the institution the sages truly transcends race (which I believe it does) then the sages spirit forms should not resemble any one race. As such there is nothing to stop the "ethereal" sages from returning at any point in time.

Originally Posted by Double C

Geography:
OoT-TP = Obviously the same Hyrule. Possess all the same landmarks
ALTTP, TMC FSA = obviously the same Hyrule. Possess all the same landmarks (TMC is Within the FSA/ALTTP map and the peripheral regions are absent).
OoT and ALTTP have more geological and demographical discrepancies between them than any other games other than LoZ/AoL.

compare OoT to FSA, then recall that OoT and LttP were originally the same place regardless of flaws, and that FSA (LttP's likely prequel) is even more similar to OoT Hyrule. If they wanted to maintain the separation, they would not have made FSA the geographical middle ground. Also, tMC is more similar to Holodrum than anything else, but LoZ is agreeable by default. In such a case, please see LoZ and LttP similarities and consider my CT LttP argument. The only reason you separate them geographically is because of tMC, but you assume that tMC has to come between OoT and FSA.

Is ALTTP in the CT? Your only evidence is the Master Sword in the forest.
Ties between FSA&WW are stronger than the ties between ALTTP&TP.

Sorry, but TP is the same game as LttP. It's ties are arguably stronger than OoT-LttP. FSA's only connection to WW is the ocean.

Geographically we can guess that TMC and FSA are a different Hyrule than OoT.

I disagree.

The Four Sword saga mentions little of Triforce lore and has a rather contradictory founding myth (Picori/HeroOfMen *lacking any mention of the other races or of Ganondorf*

You assume tMC comes after OoT.

vs Pre-OoT Unification *lacking any mention of the Picori*) The flood gives us a way to explain this, further reinforced by the insular nature of the FSA map.

The flood explains how a microscopic race exists? I think any water would kill them off. Keep in mind "microscopic race." Also, the TF wars between tMC and OoT would probably shift the public focus from the Picori.

Originally Posted by Slagr

compare OoT to FSA, then recall that OoT and LttP were originally the same place regardless of flaws, and that FSA (LttP's likely prequel) is even more similar to OoT Hyrule. If they wanted to maintain the separation, they would not have made FSA the geographical middle ground. Also, tMC is more similar to Holodrum than anything else, but LoZ is agreeable by default. In such a case, please see LoZ and LttP similarities and consider my CT LttP argument. The only reason you separate them geographically is because of tMC, but you assume that tMC has to come between OoT and FSA.


I disagree.



You assume tMC comes after OoT.



The flood explains how a microscopic race exists? I think any water would kill them off. Keep in mind "microscopic race." Also, the TF wars between tMC and OoT would probably shift the public focus from the Picori.

Sorry, but TP is the same game as LttP. It's ties are arguably stronger than OoT-LttP. FSA's only connection to WW is the ocean.

Buddy, there needs to be in game evidence of this, there is none. The only thing anyone argues is geography, which is the only thing that can. But the entire backstory screws you all over. If Nintendo has ALttP on the CT atm, then they changed it and they screwed it over, but we need to go with original intentions until THEY screw it over and make it make no sense.

100TH POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and I've been a member for.... 4, 5, 3 days....)

Originally Posted by Watties

Buddy, there needs to be in game evidence of this, there is none.

of what, and I'm sure there is if I knew what you meant.

The only thing anyone argues is geography, which is the only thing that can.

then please see OoT-FSA.

But the entire backstory screws you all over. If Nintendo has ALttP on the CT atm, then they changed it and they screwed it over, but we need to go with original intentions until THEY screw it over and make it make no sense.

Have you played TP? There is a cutscene in which Lanayru accounts an ancient battle prior to OoT that is identical to the LttP BS (except the Ganon part, but FSA provides that element). So I'd say that, if nothing else, they've changed the SW event to both lines and no longer the AT exclusively.

Also, how does WW not screw over the AT placement? MS, Ganon, TF, and the spirit of WW (erase the past) is plenty to question the old placement.

Originally Posted by Slagr

of what, and I'm sure there is if I knew what you meant.



then please see OoT-FSA.



Have you played TP? There is a cutscene in which Lanayru accounts an ancient battle prior to OoT that is identical to the LttP BS (except the Ganon part, but FSA provides that element). So I'd say that, if nothing else, they've changed the SW event to both lines and no longer the AT exclusively.

Also, how does WW not screw over the AT placement? MS, Ganon, TF, and the spirit of WW (erase the past) is plenty to question the old placement.

I know the CT is now in question, but it's stupid, because Nintendo changes everything. How can there be a timeline if they change everything? It dosen't make sense anymore because of it.

Originally Posted by Watties

I know the CT is now in question, but it's stupid, because Nintendo changes everything. How can there be a timeline if they change everything? It dosen't make sense anymore because of it.

There's a timeline because Aonuma says there is. He hasn't rescinded this comment yet. Yes, everything is screwed up, but it will eventually be fixed, I'm sure of it.

Originally Posted by Sparty

There's a timeline because Aonuma says there is. He hasn't rescinded this comment yet. Yes, everything is screwed up, but it will eventually be fixed, I'm sure of it.

I believe it's up to us to fix it. They only confirmed a split after that GQ movie I think it was that theorized it, and that was only when it was in question. It's only when something big comes that they make it true. It is up to us to figure it out, which is why I believe we can't keep following them, as they change it every two seconds.

And they have their reasons for changing it "every two seconds".

This intent existed the same time this timeline did:
OOT-ALTTP/LA-LOZ/AOL
With WW out, it shattered those intended connections completely.

lol not fact.

Miyamotto and Dan Owsen disagree. They say it was OoT-LoZ-ALttP.

Concerning ALTTP on the AT (to assume that OOT is still the SW):

First of all, the the SW and OOT's story don't even match up (hence the games contradict the developers' statements):
1) Ganon only has the Triforce of Power. In ALTTP, he has the entire Triforce.
2) Ganon could not figure out a way to escape the Sacred Realm once he discovered the entrance. In OOT, he came in, took the Triforce, and left to conquer Hyrule.
3) All of the sages were of the same race in ALTTP, where they were all completely different in OOT. Even if you counted this as Legend error, there still is the issue of the maidens (which are sage descendants) being of all the same race.
4) Ganondorf was the re-discoverer of the Sacred Realm in the SW. In OOT, the Royal Family knew exactly where the Sacred Realm was and how to get in.

Based on game evidence, OOT and the SW should be different events. Yes, the developers did intent that connection, but that was a long time ago. With the release of WW, I believe it shows newer intent to break that intention because:

1) the whole theme of WW was to let go of the old Hyrule and venture to new lands. This of course was done by the King Hyrule's wish with the Triforce. Any game with the Old Hyrule cannot be placed after WW
2) ALTTP and OOT's Hyrule are the same due to the fact that they have most of the same places in them. Not to mention the TP-ALTTP connections, and TP is definitely on the Child timeline
3) No game (with Ganondorf/Ganon) can happen in-between OOT and WW since the WW backstory states how Ganon came back and the Hero did not appear to save them.

All of the evidence points to ALTTP being on the Child Timeline. An Adult timeline placement just doesn't make sense.

Inconsistancies:

But when these events had become obscurred by the mists of time and become legend...

AlttP says the events told of in its backstory have become anbiguos (sp?). In other words, ALttP DOES NOT NEED to perfectly match up to OoT if it was never supposed to connect directly to it in the first place.

Geography: OoT's map may match up to ALttP's, but ALttP's map sure as hell doesn't line up to TP's which we know for a fact comes AFTER OoT.

In other words to use the OoT-ALttP geography argument you would have to place ALttP BEFORE TP!

Honestly I'm sick and tired of saying TWW broke every connection. TP shows us that it distanced itself from the 2-D games in the removed text, and FSA seems to filll in gaps with ALttP being on the AT.

Overall: TP doesn't hinder ALttP on the AT...it helps it.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

lol not fact.

Miyamotto and Dan Owsen disagree. They say it was OoT-LoZ-ALttP.



Inconsistancies:

AlttP says the events told of in its backstory have become anbiguos (sp?). In other words, ALttP DOES NOT NEED to perfectly match up to OoT if it was never supposed to connect directly to it in the first place.

Geography: OoT's map may match up to ALttP's, but ALttP's map sure as hell doesn't line up to TP's which we know for a fact comes AFTER OoT.

In other words to use the OoT-ALttP geography argument you would have to place ALttP BEFORE TP!

Honestly I'm sick and tired of saying TWW broke every connection. TP shows us that it distanced itself from the 2-D games in the removed text, and FSA seems to filll in gaps with ALttP being on the AT.

Overall: TP doesn't hinder ALttP on the AT...it helps it.

Agreed. Ty, someone that makes sense.

My timeline: LoZ-AoL-Oot
Child timeline: MM-ALTTP-Oox-tp
Adult timeline: WW-PH-LA-Tmc-St-4s-4sa

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