Master Sword Grove vs. Lost Master Sword- A Link to the Past Placment Debate!

I'm sorry, who's the one being biased here?

Originally Posted by Nerushi

All these inconsistencies... Tss tss. No wonder they strayed away from the idea of OoT being SW.

That's what I thought.

Originally Posted by Nerushi

Owsen opinion on the timeline doesn't have anything to do with this. Had he gotten a positive respone from Miyamoto about what the timeline was then he might had another opinion. Point is, he asked Miyamoto, Miyamoto didn't know.
This has nothing to do with Bill Trinen ( and if you must know, yes, I think Bill Trinen is a better translator, but that completely beside the point. )

Bill Trinen said there was a timeline, Dan Owsen said there wasn't. Trinen is supervised by NoJ, Owsen wasn't. Who is more likely to know if there is a timeline?

It doesn't matter if Miyamoto knew what he was talking about, he still made more sense with the timeline.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

I'm sorry, who's the one being biased here?

That's what I thought.

What? Even you admit there's inconsistencies having OoT as SW. Wind Waker doesn't exactly help your cause.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

Bill Trinen said there was a timeline, Dan Owsen said there wasn't. Trinen is supervised by NoJ, Owsen wasn't. Who is more likely to know if there is a timeline?

It doesn't matter if Miyamoto knew what he was talking about, he still made more sense with the timeline.

Brilliant. You managed to completely ignore the point and start ranting about what wasn't even relevant to our conversation.
All this has to do with Miyamoto, since you're basing it of the Miyamoto timeline. The timeline only makes sense if you belive that ALTTP only references OoT, but the actually BS happens at some other point ( as Ganon would have to be re-sealed ) which is just completely awful contiunity.

Yes there is a timeline confirmed by nintendo:

OOT-WW-PH
l
OOT-MM-TP

Originally Posted by Nerushi

What? Even you admit there's inconsistencies having OoT as SW. Wind Waker doesn't exactly help your cause.

OoT was confirmed to be the SW. Your excuse for TWW changing that is it breaking a connection that was never confirmed.

Originally Posted by Nerushi

Brilliant. You managed to completely ignore the point and start ranting about what wasn't even relevant to our conversation.
All this has to do with Miyamoto, since you're basing it of the Miyamoto timeline. The timeline only makes sense if you belive that ALTTP only references OoT, but the actually BS happens at some other point ( as Ganon would have to be re-sealed ) which is just completely awful contiunity.

Congratulations. You managed to completely not understand what I was talking about and cover it up by blaming me for ignoring the point.

As for the validity of the Miyamoto timeline of 1998, think back to when you first completed OoT, and Ganon was sealed into the Dark World by the Sages. When you first completed OoT, was there any doubt in your mind that this ending led into ALTTP? How else would Ganon have ended up in the Dark World for ALTTP.

If the order really was OoT--LoZ/AoL--ALTTP, that means ALTTP Ganon is NOT the same Ganon we see in OoT. It also means the Ganon we see in OoT, somewhere offscreen, manages to break out of the Dark World and attack Hyrule once again in order to gain the Triforce of Power.

According to LoZ's backstory, which is NOT the events of OoT, Ganon claimed the Triforce of Power and Zelda broke the Triforce of Wisdom into 8 pieces. Now, how could Ganon steal the Triforce of Power prior to LoZ if he already had it at the end of OoT? And then he's killed in the Light World at the end of LoZ. Then, a new Ganondorf must have been reincarnated, discovered the Sacred Realm, and claimed the Triforce. So if Miyamoto's timeline was to be believed, it would mean the Ganondorf from ALTTP's backstory was not in fact the same Ganondorf we see in OoT? Does nobody else see a problem with this?

As for the validity of the Miyamoto timeline of 1998, think back to when you first completed OoT, and Ganon was sealed into the Dark World by the Sages. When you first completed OoT, was there any doubt in your mind that this ending led into ALTTP?

Yes there was.

The Triforce and Ganon's titles make no sence whatsoever. Whereas LoZ tells us in the manual that "Ganon has escaped from the Dark world". Combine that with the fact that LoZ's BS and BS LoZ's BS are OoT, it goes to show without reason that the original intent was OoT-LoZ-ALttP.

Inconsistencies between OoT and the SW would not have influenced the timeline because OoT was made as the SW.

And yes, there was doubt. If OoT lead directly into ALttP, how did Ganon go from having just the Triforce of Power to having the whole thing. AoL shows the Triforce reuniting.

OoT-ALttP-LoZ/AoL cons: Ganon, Triforce
OoT-LoZ/AoL-ALttP cons: Ganon

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

OoT was confirmed to be the SW. Your excuse for TWW changing that is it breaking a connection that was never confirmed.

Yes, at a time when OoT Ganon was ALTTP Ganon and OoT Hyrule was ALTTP Hyrule. You'll have to excuse me for questioning a rather vague confirmation of OoT being the SW. Especially considering the fact that none of the games after OoT seem to really support this little idea. ( And that you guys are forced to come up with lengthy excuses that OoT was never 'directly' connected ALTTP.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

Congratulations. You managed to completely not understand what I was talking about and cover it up by blaming me for ignoring the point.

No. I didn't really understand what you were trying to convey with all that chatter about the Owsen/Trinen beliving in a timeline or not. But seeing your childish attempt to mimic my statement I won't further this discussion with you, as it seem to lead no where.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

OoT-ALttP-LoZ/AoL cons: Ganon, Triforce
OoT-LoZ/AoL-ALttP cons: Ganon

How is Ganon an inconsistency in the OoT--ALTTP--LoZ/AoL timeline? If he was sealed in the Dark World in OoT and killed in the Dark World in ALTTP, that gives room for a new Ganon to be reincarnated in the Light World. Ganon is only an inconsistency in the Miyamoto timeline.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Combine that with the fact that LoZ's BS and BS LoZ's BS are OoT, it goes to show without reason that the original intent was OoT-LoZ-ALttP.

LoZ's BS was not OoT. In LoZ's backstory, Ganon stole the Triforce of Power and Zelda immediately broke the Triforce of Wisdom into eight pieces. This didn't happen in OoT. And could you provide a manual quote about Ganon escaping the Dark World in LoZ? And if it's an old NoA quote, it probably won't help anybody's argument at all.

How is Ganon an inconsistency in the OoT--ALTTP--LoZ/AoL timeline? If he was sealed in the Dark World in OoT and killed in the Dark World in ALTTP, that gives room for a new Ganon to be reincarnated. Ganon is only an inconsistency in the Miyamoto timeline.

We have one ressurection unexplained in either case, and at any rate, Ganon in OoT and LoZ is Daimoau whereas in ALttP he's Yami no maou.

And you missed my post.

Originally Posted by Link92

How is Ganon an inconsistency in the OoT--ALTTP--LoZ/AoL timeline? If he was sealed in the Dark World in OoT and killed in the Dark World in ALTTP, that gives room for a new Ganon to be reincarnated. Ganon is only an inconsistency in the Miyamoto timeline.

ALttP gives room for a resurrection for LoZ, but LoZ/AoL don't for ALttP? Lol. Either neither give way for a resurrection or they both do. It's an inconsistency both ways.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

ALttP gives room for a resurrection for LoZ, but LoZ/AoL don't for ALttP? Lol. Either neither give way for a resurrection or they both do. It's an inconsistency both ways.

When did I ever say anything about a resurrection? Never. I never once used the word 'resurrection' in my post. I said 'reincarnated,' and we know from FSA that Ganondorf is reincarnated every 100 years just like Link and Zelda. If the order was OoT--LoZ/AoL--ALTTP, Ganon could have been reincarnated after LoZ/AoL, but that doesn't explain why he is in the Dark World in ALTTP, just like he was in OoT's ending. And OoT was designed to be the Seal War, which, in 1998, was supposed to be responsible for Ganon's presence in the Dark World in ALTTP. Having LoZ/AoL in between OoT and ALTTP makes OoT being the Seal War impossible. I'm beginning to think Nintendo didn't know what they were going to do with OoT during development, explaining why one source tells us that OoT was responsible for Ganon's presence in ALTTP, whereas the other source (Miyamoto) says the almost exact opposite.

and we know from FSA that Ganondorf is reincarnated every 100 years just like Link and Zelda.

What the ♥♥♥♥? No we don't.

FSA shows us a Gerudo who is named Ganondorf born, who goes looking for a Trident which houses old Ganon's spirit who turns into old Ganon.

Link and Zelda. If the order was OoT--LoZ/AoL--ALTTP, Ganon could have been reincarnated after LoZ/AoL, but that doesn't explain why he is in the Dark World in ALTTP, just like he was in OoT's ending. And OoT was designed to be the Seal War, which, in 1998, was supposed to be responsible for Ganon's presence in the Dark World in ALTTP. Having LoZ/AoL in between OoT and ALTTP makes OoT being the Seal War impossible. I'm beginning to think Nintendo didn't know what they were going to do with OoT during development, explaining why one source tells us that OoT was responsible for Ganon's presence in ALTTP, whereas the other source (Miyamoto) says the almost exact opposite.

Yes but we know for a fact that the SR was corrupted more then once. Hense ALttP HAS to come not directly after OoT.

Once again BS LoZ makes OoT LoZ's BS not ALttP's.

If you want to start taking this discussion seriously then read my posts for god sakes.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

What the ♥♥♥♥? No we don't.

FSA shows us a Gerudo who is named Ganondorf born, who goes looking for a Trident which houses old Ganon's spirit who turns into old Ganon.

Here's a bit of unused text from TP's text dump. The speaker is Ganondorf, confirming that the world will be visited by one of his blood, just as the world will one day be visited by a new Link and Zelda when they are reincarnated.

Originally Posted by Ganondorf, TP's unused text

When the chosen ones appear...
They are always born into this world in perfect balance.
That is the destiny of the chosen. That is the fate decreed by your gods, the only path for those who bear their crests.
When this world brings forth another marked as you are...
Know too, that it shall also be visited by one of my blood.
Do not think this ends here...
The history of light and shadow will be written in blood!

Because this text is unused, I suppose it could be considered of questionable canon status, but all it does is clarify TP's ending and there was a reason for why it was in the game's development, so there's no reason why it shouldn't be canon.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Yes but we know for a fact that the SR was corrupted more then once. Hense ALttP HAS to come not directly after OoT.

OoT was designed to represent the SW during development, and for that reason was intended to be the reason behind Ganon's presence in the Dark World in ALTTP. They obviously didn't achieve this, but we're talking about intent.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

If you want to start taking this discussion seriously then read my posts for god sakes.

I already read your posts a long time ago. What makes you so ignorantly believe I never read your posts? I even replied to them a few posts back.

My bad.

LoZ's BS was not OoT. In LoZ's backstory, Ganon stole the Triforce of Power and Zelda immediately broke the Triforce of Wisdom into eight pieces. This didn't happen in OoT. And could you provide a manual quote about Ganon escaping the Dark World in LoZ? And if it's an old NoA quote, it probably won't help anybody's argument at all.

I'm not talking about LoZ's BS (although that is somewhat close) I'm talking about BS LoZ.

Because this text is unused, I suppose it could be considered of questionable canon status, but all it does is clarify TP's ending and there was a reason for why it was in the game's development, so there's no reason why it shouldn't be canon.

Um...for the same reason we don't think the MS is in FSA perhaps?

Originally Posted by Pinecove

My bad.

I'm not talking about LoZ's BS (although that is somewhat close) I'm talking about BS LoZ.

What is BS LoZ, btw?

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Um...for the same reason we don't think the MS is in FSA perhaps?

FSA's Master Sword is a totally different issue. All Ganondorf's unused quote means is "One of my descendants will kill you." He still basically says this in the final version when he says "Do not think this ends here."

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Whereas LoZ tells us in the manual that "Ganon has escaped from the Dark world".

WHOA WHOA WHOA BACK UP

Do you have a link? I can't seem to find this quote at Zelda Legends.

Originally Posted by Link92

What is BS LoZ, btw?

Broadcast Satellaview Legend of Zelda

The manual never said that he escape from the dark world.

The VC description says he did IIRC.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

The VC description says he did IIRC.

Good memory:

Originally Posted by Virtual Console Description

Experience the original smash-hit adventure on the NES! Ganon, the King of Evil, has broken free of the Dark World and has captured Hyrule's beloved Princess Zelda. But, before she was caught, Zelda managed to shatter the Triforce of Wisdom and scatter its eight pieces throughout Hyrule. You begin your adventure by finding a small wooden sword in a dark cave. Then, as you grow in stature, experience, and strength, so do your weapons. Help Link collect the captured pieces of the Triforce, rescue the princess, and thwart Ganon’s evil plans!

Source