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  #21 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 05:43 PM
Bingo Bingo is a male United States Bingo is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
The idea that each character must have a counterpart is an absolute myth. The only evidence given for this, and the 'Parallel', is within the manual, where it is claimed that 'characters may appear vaugely familiar at first glance'.
There's the whole Ikana bit to be taken into account, as well. The whole 'doomed Hyrule' scenario. And Wikipedia, although admittedly not always reliable, disagrees with you:

Quote:
Majora's Mask is the sixth installment in The Legend of Zelda series and the second using 3D graphics, the first being The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, the game's predecessor. The game is set in Termina, an alternate version of the usual series setting of Hyrule, where the Skull Kid has stolen Majora's Mask, an ancient artifact. Under its influence, the Skull Kid causes the moon to fall towards Termina, where it crashes at the end of the three-day cycle.
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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
While this is indeed true, the Moon itself came into existence when the wearer was Skull Kid. Furthermore, the interior of the Moon appears to parallel some of the themes from the stories of Anju's Grandmother, namely the story of the Four Giants. However, the interior of the Moon is probably symbolic in a variety of ways. If anything however, I see Majora's Mask as slightly disconnected from these elements.
Disconnected how?
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:10 PM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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There's the whole Ikana bit to be taken into account, as well.
How is this relevant to the counterpart argument, or the parallel? I probably don't understand what youre trying to say.
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The whole 'doomed Hyrule' scenario.
Nor with this, please go into more depth.
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And Wikipedia, although admittedly not always reliable, disagrees with you:
An alternate version of Hyrule? That could be argued, although the terms are unsepcific. I would agree in the sense that Termina shares Hyrules prominent races, but it cannot be denied that the respective locations have different histories, customs, technology and geography. They are totally different places. Once again the counterpart idea is a myth, bought about by overzealous interpritation. The only 'counterparts' seen are those who look similar to people within Hyrule. And even they are claimed only to look 'familiar at first glance'. Furthermore nintendo likely reused charater models out of convienience, not intended presentation of an absolute parallel. For example, Romani and Cremia both would 'Parallel' Malon, but they both exist at once, severing this idea.
Quote:
Disconnected how?
Majora's Mask seems fluent and intent upon destroying Termina prior to entering the Moon, but the plain and Mask children don't appear to be within it's control. Instead we see children that appear like the Mask Salesman, and a slight emotional reinvention of Skull Kid's situation during the story of the 'Four Giants'.
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  #23 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 06:21 PM
Bingo Bingo is a male United States Bingo is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
How is this relevant to the counterpart argument, or the parallel? I probably don't understand what youre trying to say.
Ikana has many references to Hyrule and its history, however instead of embracing the Goddesses, they seem to be shunning them. Stone Tower in this regard is very similar to the Tower of Babel. Refer to this thread for more information. It's an older theory, but I still buy into it.

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
Furthermore nintendo likely reused charater models out of convienience, not intended presentation of an absolute parallel.
Well that's obvious. It's like they were too lazy to draw new sprites for FSA. But coming up with an excuse for it is what matters.

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
For example, Romani and Cremia both would 'Parallel' Malon, but they both exist at once, severing this idea.
It clearly isn't a direct parallel. Many obvious things differ. If locales and history are subject to change, I see no reason for a parent having two girls instead of one to be evidence against it.

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
Majora's Mask seems fluent and intent upon destroying Termina prior to entering the Moon, but the plain and Mask children don't appear to be within it's control. Instead we see children that appear like the Mask Salesman, and a slight emotional reinvention of Skull Kid's situation during the story of the 'Four Giants'.
I see what you're saying.
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  #24 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 06:46 PM
Justin Justin is a male Oman Justin is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

I made an older thread with the theory that Termina was created for Link (and maybe, to heal Skullkid, destroy Majora, etc.) so that everything that happened in MM was intended to by the Goddesses, who created that world instantly. The people there who have memories, are real and living, but their memories are fake, whereas they only just started living when Link entered Termina, or maybe shortly before, or maybe even when Link was born. HERE is that thread with the details, (don't post in it, it's far more than a month old).

EDIT: This explains the Romani/Cremia inconsistancy, they are two characters, but share the same image for the same girl from OoT. The only one in the CT who would have seen an adult Malon at the time would be Link, who travelled there and back.

EDIT 2: Wow, I forgot to add my insight on the purpose of this thread

I'm unsure of what I believe FD to be, but I really like the idea of the being and mask being a reflection of Link's soul at the end of the game. In the beginning, he is transformed into a weak Deku, and the end where he gets an almighty mask it would signify his growth and power. He was able to mature naturally throughout the game, and justly contain the adult spirit inside his body. He grew and became an adult in his own right. The FD Mask signifies this.
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  #25 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 06:51 PM
Bingo Bingo is a male United States Bingo is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by Aura Pulse View Post
I made an older thread with the theory that Termina was created for Link (and maybe, to heal Skullkid, destroy Majora, etc.) so that everything that happened in MM was intended to by the Goddesses, who created that world instantly. The people there who have memories, are real and living, but their memories are fake, whereas they only just started living when Link entered Termina, or maybe shortly before, or maybe even when Link was born. HERE is that thread with the details, (don't post in it, it's far more than a month old).

EDIT: This explains the Romani/Cremia inconsistancy, they are two characters, but share the same image for the same girl from OoT. The only one in the CT who would have seen an adult Malon at the time would be Link, who travelled there and back.
I...think that's a tad absurd. Forgive my disbelief. You could say Hyrule was made instantly, too, to destory Ganondorf or something along those lines. I think you're filling holes that don't exist.
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:58 PM
Justin Justin is a male Oman Justin is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by Bingo675 View Post
I...think that's a tad absurd. Forgive my disbelief. You could say Hyrule was made instantly, too, to destory Ganondorf or something along those lines. I think you're filling holes that don't exist.
It was absurd when I first thought of it as well. But think about it, think about the outcome of the game. Majora destroyed, Skullkid healed from his lost friends, the HMS hopefully learned not to go looking for evil and demonic artifacts

The only thing that can bring this to an end is the fact that the Giants were always there, AND friends with Skullkid, who was from Hyrule, (supposedly). However, if everyone in MM was from Termina besides Link and the HMS (and possibly, Majora), then this could work out. Read my thread and look for the reasons why the Goddesses would do this.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:01 PM
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by Aura Pulse View Post
It was absurd when I first thought of it as well. But think about it, think about the outcome of the game. Majora destroyed, Skullkid healed from his lost friends, the HMS hopefully learned not to go looking for evil and demonic artifacts

The only thing that can bring this to an end is the fact that the Giants were always there, AND friends with Skullkid, who was from Hyrule, (supposedly). However, if everyone in MM was from Termina besides Link and the HMS (and possibly, Majora), then this could work out. Read my thread and look for the reasons why the Goddesses would do this.
I actually see what you're saying. It might be possible.
For now, however, I'm going to stick to my theory. But I think yours is a definite possibility.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:02 PM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Ikana has many references to Hyrule and its history, however instead of embracing the Goddesses, they seem to be shunning them. Stone Tower in this regard is very similar to the Tower of Babel. Refer to this thread for more information. It's an older theory, but I still buy into it.
I have long been aware of this theory. However, the only reference I see toward Hyrule are the Triforce symbols within Stone Tower. The symbols were clearly blasphemous, and I see no other connection to Hyrule.
Quote:
Well that's obvious. It's like they were too lazy to draw new sprites for FSA. But coming up with an excuse for it is what matters.
Yes, but to reiterate my point was that as an excuse, it limits the amount of theory that can be plausable surrounding the parallel. Counterparts, specifically.
Quote:
It clearly isn't a direct parallel. Many obvious things differ. If locales and history are subject to change, I see no reason for a parent having two girls instead of one to be evidence against it.
It is evidence against the idea of direct parallel. Some people here believe that each charater can have a plausable parallel, but the presence of two versions of one character lean towards the pure excuse explination rather than otherwise. it's safe to say that we should only respect 'counterparts' we know to exist, and not consider any arbitrary rules regarding the 'parallel' - because a proper explination was not given.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:13 PM
Bingo Bingo is a male United States Bingo is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
I have long been aware of this theory. However, the only reference I see toward Hyrule are the Triforce symbols within Stone Tower. The symbols were clearly blasphemous, and I see no other connection to Hyrule.
I believe them to be ancient. Memories of what was Hyrule have passed.

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
Yes, but to reiterate my point was that as an excuse, it limits the amount of theory that can be plausable surrounding the parallel. Counterparts, specifically.
Why is that?

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
It is evidence against the idea of direct parallel. Some people here believe that each charater can have a plausable parallel, but the presence of two versions of one character lean towards the pure excuse explination rather than otherwise. it's safe to say that we should only respect 'counterparts' we know to exist, and not consider any arbitrary rules regarding the 'parallel' - because a proper explination was not given.
That's true, however this is all theory. And I'm not arguing a direct parallel, again, many obvious things differ. I see it as, the same day and minute as it is in Hyrule, just history was different. And it's not like Romani is a clone, she's Cremia's sister, who obviously resembles her. It's the butterfly effect. Something small that happens in the past greatly influences the events of the future. Something influenced Cremia and Romani's parents two have two children and name them Romani and Cremia, while Talon and whoever he made babies with were influenced by something to have one daughter and to name her Malon.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:16 PM
McCoy McCoy is a male United States McCoy is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
While this is indeed true, the Moon itself came into existence when the wearer was Skull Kid.
But the moon had always been there, I don't have any astronamer quotes, but he say's that only that it looked different lately, not that it appeared.
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  #31 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 07:31 PM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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But the moon had always been there, I don't have any astronamer quotes, but he say's that only that it looked different lately, not that it appeared.
The Moon dissapeared into a rainbow at the end of Majora's Mask. Tatl also appeared to realise that the Moon was a fake prior to entering it. Additionally, considering the interior and exterior (the jugglers in Clock Town recognise that the moon has scary red eyes, which is not normal), we can safely say that the Moon is likely a fake, or a dramatic transformation of the real moon - the latter being less likely.
Quote:
I believe them to be ancient. Memories of what was Hyrule have passed.
The Stone Tower builders? We actually don't know if they were aware of Hyrule specifically, although there is no doubt that they were aware of the Goddesses, and the Triforce. They probably knew of Hyrule. However, you seem to be implying something more?

On a random tangent, it is interesting that the Stone Tower contains those Triforce images. If we consider the timing of Ocarina, and respect it as the first chronological title, the builders of the tower may have been among the first peoples to be aware of the Triforce. I say 'the builders' because Ikana appears to be severed from the Stone Tower. Apparantly, only Sharp knew the way into the Temple, and Igos Du Ikana appeared to know little of it.
Quote:
Why is that?
Because the use of character models is by far easily explained by Nintendo's parallel excuse, rather than a contrived effort to create some 'parallel' plot element. It isnt referenced ingame, it isnt important to the flow of the story, and whenever a person attempts to apply rules to it, we see contradictions.
Quote:
That's true, however this is all theory. And I'm not arguing a direct parallel, again, many obvious things differ. I see it as, the same day and minute as it is in Hyrule, just history was different.
Well, including the rest of your quote, I don't see anything to render that untrue, and that is one of the better views I have heard regarding the Parallel. However, that may only be because it doesnt claim anything specifially.
Last Edited by Hyperactivity; 08-19-2009 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 08:09 PM
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
The Stone Tower builders? We actually don't know if they were aware of Hyrule specifically, although there is no doubt that they were aware of the Goddesses, and the Triforce. They probably knew of Hyrule. However, you seem to be implying something more?
Well, I'm implying that Ikana WAS Hyrule, not that they were aware of Hyrule in another dimension or whatever. It was Hyrule, just named Ikana, again, for whatever reason; the butterfly effect. What isn't clear is what happened there to have them scorn the goddesses so.

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
On a random tangent, it is interesting that the Stone Tower contains those Triforce images. If we consider the timing of Ocarina, and respect it as the first chronological title, the builders of the tower may have been among the first peoples to be aware of the Triforce. I say 'the builders' because Ikana appears to be severed from the Stone Tower. Apparantly, only Sharp knew the way into the Temple, and Igos Du Ikana appeared to know little of it.
Perhaps that's why they shunned it? Assuming Jesus actually had god-like powers, if he were to have shown those powers to cavemen, they probably would have feared and rejected it. Based on what we've seen in the Ikana kingdom, their civilization wasn't that far advanced, still using grass and what appears to be mud huts.

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
Well, including the rest of your quote, I don't see anything to render that untrue, and that is one of the better views I have heard regarding the Parallel. However, that may only be because it doesnt claim anything specifially.
What else is there to claim? It's a very basic theory.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:12 PM
Gauntlet Gauntlet is a male United States Gauntlet is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

We're way off subject, but anyway, maybe it is just a parallel the same way Full Metal Alchemist has a parallel world thing going on?
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:27 PM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Well, I'm implying that Ikana WAS Hyrule, not that they were aware of Hyrule in another dimension or whatever. It was Hyrule, just named Ikana, again, for whatever reason; the butterfly effect.
Ah, I thought it may be something like this, but I wanted you to clarify it first. I know of nothing to indicate this. What is your evidence? Indeed I only see obstacles. Different names, appearances, different locations, very different histories. They are simply different.
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  #35 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 09:43 PM
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Re: Fierce Deity

Quote,
Quote:
I like the idea that Majora's Mask is the Termanian counterpart to the Fused Shadow, but that still gives it a Termanian origin
Endqoute.

When I said Majora's Mask was the Fused Shadows' counterpart, I didn't mean counterpart exactly. I was thinking along the lines of the Fused Shadow being "based" On Majora's Mask as the eyes look similar and there are other similarities.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:02 PM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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When I said Majora's Mask was the Fused Shadows' counterpart, I didn't mean counterpart exactly. I was thinking along the lines of the Fused Shadow being "based" On Majora's Mask as the eyes look similar and there are other similarities.
Hmm, good point. Although I think the similarities between the two (in terms of powers, and history) arent terribly close, I believe that Nintendo did create that eye motif upon the Fused Shadows as an intentional nod towards Majora's Mask. Easter egg, small reference, or direct cause for theory, remains free for interpritation I suppose. Sorry for being a bit preemptive.

My opinion is that the artifacts themselves are distinctly different. One is an evil sentient will, the other, empowering of the user. One shadow magic, the other, inherently evil. What startles me are the similarities between Midna's imp form and Skull Kid, although I have discussed this elsewhere, and it's quite speculative.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:47 AM
Nullatrum Nullatrum is a male United States Nullatrum is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

I think it's safe to say that Majora is completely insane. If you think about it, he's basically doing this all for his own sick pleasure.
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  #38 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-21-2009, 03:42 AM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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I think it's safe to say that Majora is completely insane. If you think about it, he's basically doing this all for his own sick pleasure.
I would disagree with the idea of insanity, although wether you claim it or not, the fact remains; Clock Town and Termina was going to be destroyed in a very symbolic, poignant fashion. Don't forget that the Moon was to strike upon the exact dawn of the Carnival of Time (a solar/lunar festival), something that I cannot see as unintentional, no matter the angle.

Majora's Mask appeared not to be insane, because it spoke fluently and decisively prior to entering the Moon. Upon entrance to the Moon is where context becomes hazy, and I don't think that desire to destroy the world is equal to or tied with insanity. Infact, depending upon the amount of credit we grant the Mask for Termina's events, there appears to be a degree of planning. A 'masked one' is known to have tricked the pirates into stealing the Zora eggs. A 'masked one' tricked Sharp and seems to be blamed for the curse upon Ikana. There are plenty of other small misfortunes throughout Termina that are implied to have been caused by Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask, and I can't understand why Skull Kid would be motivated to instigate even half of them.

Majora's Mask apparently planned too much to be considered insane, although it's motives are spastic, to say the least.
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  #39 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-21-2009, 03:51 AM
HAPPY MASK MAN HAPPY MASK MAN is a male United Kingdom HAPPY MASK MAN is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
I would disagree with the idea of insanity, although wether you claim it or not, the fact remains; Clock Town and Termina was going to be destroyed in a very symbolic, poignant fashion. Don't forget that the Moon was to strike upon the exact dawn of the Carnival of Time (a solar/lunar festival), something that I cannot see as unintentional, no matter the angle.

Majora's Mask appeared not to be insane, because it spoke fluently and decisively prior to entering the Moon. Upon entrance to the Moon is where context becomes hazy, and I don't think that desire to destroy the world is equal to or tied with insanity. Infact, depending upon the amount of credit we grant the Mask for Termina's events, there appears to be a degree of planning. A 'masked one' is known to have tricked the pirates into stealing the Zora eggs. A 'masked one' tricked Sharp and seems to be blamed for the curse upon Ikana. There are plenty of other small misfortunes throughout Termina that are implied to have been caused by Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask, and I can't understand why Skull Kid would be motivated to instigate even half of them.

Majora's Mask apparently planned too much to be considered insane, although it's motives are spastic, to say the least.
I agree with you, he is very intelligent and has planned things out too well in order to be considered mental to the degree you people think. He has carefully and cleverly planned things and new exactly which strings to pull so that everything falled in place.
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:15 AM
Micchi Micchi is a female United States Micchi is offline
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Re: Fierce Deity

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Originally Posted by HAPPY MASK MAN View Post
I agree with you, he is very intelligent and has planned things out too well in order to be considered mental to the degree you people think. He has carefully and cleverly planned things and new exactly which strings to pull so that everything falled in place.
Just because someone plans things very well, and plans them knowing the outcome, does not mean that this person is completely and 100% sane.

As they say, the line between genius and insanity is very, very thin.
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