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  #41 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 11:19 AM
Missing Inaction Missing Inaction is a male United States Missing Inaction is offline
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link View Post
they've stated several times that OOT is the first. There really is no logical reason to say that LOZ is the first game timeline wise when OOT was made to go before it. Besides what little evidence you have is rather obscure IMO and i don't think it is anything more than an easter egg or cameo.
The developers have not stated that OoT is first since the release of TP, and TP is the game where all my evidence for my pre-OoT placements comes from. The Arbiter's Grounds carvings are in TP. Until TP, we didn't know of any naming tradition on the CT. The AoL BS could have taken place with OoT Zelda on the AT (as Artemicion believes it does) without any problems.

The pictures in the Arbirer's Grounds could be seen as cameos, yes. But the naming tradition taking place on both sides of the timeline is undeniable. Once the AoL BS is in place bfore ooT, no evidence is needed to move OoX there as well. It makes sense to move it there because we see the Triforce going back to the SR in its ending. This sets up well for OoT. Not only does it make sense to move OoX there for continuity, there's evidence found for it in TP. It's a double win.

True, there is no standalone evidence for LoZ and AoL to take place before OoT, but it makes sense to move them there to connect the AoL BS and OoX, which are already before OoT based on evidence and logic.

TMC is just kind of there.
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  #42 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 11:32 AM
Kostya Kostya is a male United States Kostya is offline
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

OOX cannot! Happen pre-OOT. The Triforce was left in the SR by the Godesses. OOX makes far more sense coming after OOT. AOL's BS probably takes place Pre-OOT but there really is no good evidence or reason to assume any games(minus MC) take place pre-OOT.
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  #43 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 11:34 AM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

The Hyrule presented in tMC clearly was not just established, it obviously had time to grow. But that said, that doesn't mean it has to be old Hyrule. Once new Hyrule was established, there could have been any size of gap between then and the events of tMC.
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  #44 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 11:45 AM
Missing Inaction Missing Inaction is a male United States Missing Inaction is offline
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link View Post
OOX cannot! Happen pre-OOT. The Triforce was left in the SR by the Godesses. OOX makes far more sense coming after OOT. AOL's BS probably takes place Pre-OOT but there really is no good evidence or reason to assume any games(minus MC) take place pre-OOT.
Do you realize that the Triforce was in Hyrule when the AoL BS happened? It sounds like you just don't like OoX before OoT because that means the Triforce has to come out of the SR. If the AoL BS happens before OoT, the Triforce is already out of the SR, so that would no longer be a problem for OoX. In fact, the AoL BS happening before OoT makes it more likely that OoX does as well, because OoX shows the Triforce returning to the SR like it has to before OoT.

It's the same story with TMC. TMC happening before OoT evidences the idea that OoX happens before OoT as well. There is evidence in TMC that OoX is supposed to take place before TMC.

So there are two events that you yourself are saying probably happen before OoT, each of them happening before OoT evidences the idea that OoX happens before OoT as well, and you're saying there's no good evidence or reason to assume OoX takes place before OoT?

...right.

As for the evidence from TP I provided for OoX to happen before OoT, (the carving of Twinrova and the Trident) please tell me why it's no good.
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  #45 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 11:55 AM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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Originally Posted by Ollathir View Post
Do you realize that the Triforce was in Hyrule when the AoL BS happened? It sounds like you just don't like OoX before OoT because that means the Triforce has to come out of the SR. If the AoL BS happens before OoT, the Triforce is already out of the SR, so that would no longer be a problem for OoX. In fact, the AoL BS happening before OoT makes it more likely that OoX does as well, because OoX shows the Triforce returning to the SR like it has to before OoT.
How could the AoL BS have happened pre-OoT? If I recall correctly, it's stated in OoT 'before the king unified this nation.' I feel this implies it was the same King as the current, not a past king. According to the AoL BS, there would have had to have been several.

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Originally Posted by Ollathir View Post
As for the evidence from TP I provided for OoX to happen before OoT, (the carving of Twinrova and the Trident) please tell me why it's no good.
I don't think the image has any visual resemblance to Twinrova.
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  #46 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 12:11 PM
Kostya Kostya is a male United States Kostya is offline
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

Ollathair: About the image of Twinrova. Just so you know they were alive several centuries before OOT. My main complaint is i honestly don't see how that thing next to them is a trident. If they really wanted to makes this connection they could have shown Ganon and a trident! But just a little squiggle that looks like a trident isn't enough.
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  #47 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 12:53 PM
Missing Inaction Missing Inaction is a male United States Missing Inaction is offline
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

My name isn't Ollathair, just so you know. It's Ollathir.

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Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link View Post
Ollathair: About the image of Twinrova. Just so you know they were alive several centuries before OOT. My main complaint is i honestly don't see how that thing next to them is a trident. If they really wanted to makes this connection they could have shown Ganon and a trident! But just a little squiggle that looks like a trident isn't enough.
They could have shown Ganon with the trident, but they didn't. That doesn't change the fact that they show Twinrova with the trident.



What do you mean "a little squiggle?" We clearly see a long shaft that ends in three prongs. It's either the trident or a giant salad fork.
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  #48 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 01:11 PM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

Okay but how does the fact that it's really a weak thing to base such a drastic timeline overhaul on. The picture could be interpreted several ways. For example, upon closer inspection that doesn't even look like a human being. It looks more like a dragon or something. Actually it kinda reminds me of Volagia.
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  #49 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 01:16 PM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link View Post
Okay but how does the fact that it's really a weak thing to base such a drastic timeline overhaul on. The picture could be interpreted several ways. For example, upon closer inspection that doesn't even look like a human being. It looks more like a dragon or something. Actually it kinda reminds me of Volagia.
I saw the same. I don't see a humanoid shape at all.
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  #50 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 02:49 PM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link View Post
Okay but how does the fact that it's really a weak thing to base such a drastic timeline overhaul on. The picture could be interpreted several ways. For example, upon closer inspection that doesn't even look like a human being. It looks more like a dragon or something. Actually it kinda reminds me of Volagia.
I think it's Twinrova. If you don't, that doesn't bother me.

I'm not basing my timeline solely on that picture. I'm basing it on that picture, the picture of Link and Ganon, and the naming tradition.
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  #51 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 02:55 PM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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Originally Posted by Ollathir View Post
I think it's Twinrova. If you don't, that doesn't bother me.

I'm not basing my timeline solely on that picture. I'm basing it on that picture, the picture of Link and Ganon, and the naming tradition.
I honestly don't recall anyone praising anyone of being a hero besides god-like figures, who I assumed were simply in the loop with the whole thing. The Arbiter's Grounds was a hang out for the Sages, who I also assume were in the loop. Thereby making it possible that someone knew of Link facing Ganon at the end of OoT.

Another idea, we do not know what Ganondorf did specifically to be put on trial. The Hyrule of the CT might have been witness to Ganon. As we've seen, Ganondorf can certainly change back and forth, so it's not as if it's a one time thing. The picture may just be representative of a boy with a sword from the forest revealing Ganondorf's true intentions.
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Old 08-19-2009, 03:00 PM
Kostya Kostya is a male United States Kostya is offline
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

Like i said the other picture reminds me more of Vaati than Ganon. Which would make sense considering MC has a reason to happen pre-OOT.
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  #53 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 03:01 PM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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Originally Posted by Bingo675 View Post
I honestly don't recall anyone praising anyone of being a hero besides god-like figures, who I assumed were simply in the loop with the whole thing. The Arbiter's Grounds was a hang out for the Sages, who I also assume were in the loop. Thereby making it possible that someone knew of Link facing Ganon at the end of OoT.
Except Link only faces Ganon at the end of OoT on the AT, and TP happens on the CT.

Quote:
Another idea, we do not know what Ganondorf did specifically to be put on trial. The Hyrule of the CT might have been witness to Ganon. As we've seen, Ganondorf can certainly change back and forth, so it's not as if it's a one time thing. The picture may just be representative of a boy with a sword from the forest revealing Ganondorf's true intentions.
We do know what he did to be put on trial. OoT Link and Zelda informed the king of Ganon's intentions to enter the SR and gets his hands on the Triforce. He was tried, found guilty, and executed. He can change into the beast thing he becomes at the end of TP using his twilight power. He changes into Blue Ganon when he has the trident or the ToP. Ganondorf can't change into Ganon and back whenever he wants.

The fact that the boy in the picture is left handed makes me think it's Link.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:22 PM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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It's either the trident or a giant salad fork.
Sigged.
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  #55 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 06:01 PM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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Originally Posted by Ollathir View Post
Except Link only faces Ganon at the end of OoT on the AT, and TP happens on the CT.
I'm aware. That's why I stated that I felt all or most of the god-like creatures were in the loop as to what happened on both timelines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollathir View Post
We do know what he did to be put on trial. OoT Link and Zelda informed the king of Ganon's intentions to enter the SR and gets his hands on the Triforce. He was tried, found guilty, and executed. He can change into the beast thing he becomes at the end of TP using his twilight power. He changes into Blue Ganon when he has the trident or the ToP. Ganondorf can't change into Ganon and back whenever he wants.
No. Read the text from the scene with the sages in TP:
Quote:
He was the leader of a band of thieves who invaded Hyrule in the hopes of establishing dominion over the Sacred Realm.
This says that he either did invade Hyrule on the CT, but was caught while doing so, or the sages somehow knew the events that took place along the AT. I believe its the latter, due to a following comment:
Quote:
But he was blind...
In all his fury and might, he was blind to any danger, and thus was he exposed, subdued, and brought to justice.
Since I'm quoting this scene, I might as well throw in there that this is where they mention the 'Divine Prank.' Also evidence to my theory that the Sacred Realm is universal, and what happens within it affects all timelines.
And again, no. In OoT Ganondorf clearly uses the ToP to change himself into Ganon, something he possessed during the events of TP.

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Originally Posted by Ollathir View Post
The fact that the boy in the picture is left handed makes me think it's Link.
I agree.
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  #56 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-19-2009, 11:28 PM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

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Originally Posted by Pinecove View Post
Sigged.
Awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo675 View Post
I'm aware. That's why I stated that I felt all or most of the god-like creatures were in the loop as to what happened on both timelines.
It's possible, but I don't find it likely.

Quote:
No. Read the text from the scene with the sages in TP:

This says that he either did invade Hyrule on the CT, but was caught while doing so, or the sages somehow knew the events that took place along the AT. I believe its the latter, due to a following comment:

Since I'm quoting this scene, I might as well throw in there that this is where they mention the 'Divine Prank.' Also evidence to my theory that the Sacred Realm is universal, and what happens within it affects all timelines.
Yes, the sages knew about the events on the AT. When Link got back to the CT at the end of OoT, he told the king about these events. He was tried, found guilty, and as the executioners, the sages were filled in on this as well. I find it likely that they were even the ones who tried Ganon.

I have had thoughts about the SR being universal and would be very interested to read your theory on it.

Quote:
And again, no. In OoT Ganondorf clearly uses the ToP to change himself into Ganon, something he possessed during the events of TP.
Yeah...I don't know why I forgot about that. There's too much stuff for me to think about right now. However, in the CT, Ganondorf got the ToP when Link returned to the CT at the end of OoT. When Link got the ToC somehow, as we know he did based on the fact that he has the Triforce mark on his hand when he goes to see Zelda again, the ToP and ToW had to go to someone as well, so they went to Zelda and Ganondorf. When Link goes to see Zelda at the end of OoT, he is going to tell her about Ganondorf's intentions. This leads to his trying and execution. Ganondorf had the ToP for very little time on the CT before he was sent to the Twilight Realm. It is doubtful he changed into Ganon at all during this time. Besides, the fact that he doesn't just use the ToP to transform into Ganon when he is chained to the stone slab and about to be executed by the sages implies he didn't know he could use the ToP to change into Ganon anyway. It's just very unlikely.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:42 PM
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Re: Ignoring in-game Evidence

Argh. Great. My lengthy post was destroyed.
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