Imprisoning War poll

Originally Posted by Slagr

huh? Freiza certainly destroyed Namek in the dub.

first season is the vegeta saga. By the time we hit the Frieza saga in the third season the dubbing has been made more true to the original. anyways now were starting to get off topic, if you want further elaboration, there is a DBZ thread in the entertainment forum. We can discuss it there.

the recent version that doesn't contradict other games.

the SNES manual doesn't contradict any other games in any way that I can see. And the GBA text agrees perfectly with SNES backstory

Well, technically it's possible, but you have to make up another war over the SR and another Ganon.

excluding the part about Ganon, TP has already done this. the little information we have about the interloper war is nothing like the established lore on the SW. It makes more sense as a different war over the SR. You could argue that it fulfills the fighting over the SR described as the lead up to the SW, but it does not meet the requirements of the SW itself. And who says there can't be another Ganon? It's been done before (just saying).

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Roc Thul

I'd say that's more a product of localization, which isn't the case with ALttP. Whatever happens in Dragon Ball Kai I'd take as more canon than what happens in Dragon Ball Z, since it's a rewrite/remake. Just like I'd take the more recent version of ALttP as the canonical one.

No, that is a product of abridgement in general. Nothing was changed in the most recent release of the game the text is almost identical to the SNES version, only the story summary in the manual has been abridged and that doesn't necessarrily make the SNES manual noncanonical.

Originally Posted by Tyras

first season is the vegeta saga. By the time we hit the Frieza saga in the third season the dubbing has been made more true to the original. anyways now were starting to get off topic, if you want further elaboration, there is a DBZ thread in the entertainment forum. We can discuss it there.

who said anything about the first season? point stands imo.

the SNES manual doesn't contradict any other games in any way that I can see. And the GBA text agrees perfectly with SNES backstory

so... OoT Ganon was around during the war over the SR and was still alive and still in the SR by LttP?

excluding the part about Ganon, TP has already done this. the little information we have about the interloper war is nothing like the established lore on the SW. It makes more sense as a different war over the SR. You could argue that it fulfills the fighting over the SR described as the lead up to the SW, but it does not meet the requirements of the SW itself. And who says there can't be another Ganon? It's been done before (just saying).

TP does tell of the same war as LttP, but Ganon certainly does not exist at that point if OoT is any indication. also, WW shows that OoT Ganon breaks the seal prior to LttP, so he's not still there. If the SNES version is completely correct, the entire event has to occur after WW and before LttP.

Originally Posted by Slagr

who said anything about the first season? point stands imo.

I did, that was what I was referring to when I was talking about things being shortened and details being removed.

so... OoT Ganon was around during the war over the SR and was still alive and still in the SR by LttP?

Only if you want OoT to be the SW. I say it works best as a seperate event.

TP does tell of the same war as LttP, but Ganon certainly does not exist at that point if OoT is any indication. also, WW shows that OoT Ganon breaks the seal prior to LttP, so he's not still there. If the SNES version is completely correct, the entire event has to occur after WW and before LttP.

What's wrong with the CT sages? can they not create a seal on the SR? TP ends with a dead Ganon and a possibly reunited triforce in the SR. Things are set up perfectly for another greedy thief to find the triforce and become a megalomaniacal demon pig.

Originally Posted by Tyras

I did, that was what I was referring to when I was talking about things being shortened and details being removed.

ok, then it's only comparable if Raditz is completely removed from the story yet Goku is dead anyway.

Only if you want OoT to be the SW. I say it works best as a seperate event.

I agree. I think I thought you thought something else...

What's wrong with the CT sages? can they not create a seal on the SR? TP ends with a dead Ganon and a possibly reunited triforce in the SR. Things are set up perfectly for another greedy thief to find the triforce and become a megalomaniacal demon pig.

So you have another Ganon out of nowhere? Ok, but why not use FSA's? What is your reasoning for separating them?

Originally Posted by Tyras

...What's wrong with the CT sages? can they not create a seal on the SR? TP ends with a dead Ganon and a possibly reunited triforce in the SR. Things are set up perfectly for another greedy thief to find the triforce and become a megalomaniacal demon pig.

When OOT is involved as the Seal War, the names of the sages appointed in the adult ending were given special significance. Also, in the child ending they were never awakened because the old sages were not massacred by Ganondorf.

Originally Posted by Satoru Takizawa

In past, when you thought about Ganon in Zelda, he was a pig. This time, when were collaborating ideas, we thought "He wouldn't be a pig, would he?" There were even some who thought "I don't want him to be a pig." But I still thought that at least the end should have Ganon as a pig. The whole time I wanted to know what Mr. Miyamoto thought, but in the end, I realized that Mr. Miyamoto didn't have an opinion on the matter, so I decided to do it the way I wanted.

This time, the story really wasn't an original. We were dealing with the "The Imprisoning War of the Seven Sages" from the SNES edition Zelda. To give that game a little "secret" recognition, I thought that keeping the "pigness" in Ganon would be the correct course. So we made him a beast "with the feeling of a pig."

Originally Posted by Toru Osawa

Though in this game Zelda is now included in the Seven Sages, the other six have the names of the town names from the Disk System edition "The Adventure of Link."

In the SNES edition game, the story "Long ago, there was a war called the Imprisoning War" was passed along. A name in the Imprisoning War era is the name of a Town later. They were like "pseudo-secrets." We wanted to throw these out through the entirety of the game. That thing from then is now this...

Originally Posted by langford

When OOT is involved as the Seal War, the names of the sages appointed in the adult ending were given special significance. Also, in the child ending they were never awakened because the old sages were not massacred by Ganondorf.

here's the rub: we don't know if Nintendo still holds to that, and that makes theorizing about the SW much harder. Urgh, Nintendo just needs to come out and give their opinions on these matters.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Slagr

So you have another Ganon out of nowhere? Ok, but why not use FSA's? What is your reasoning for separating them?

Two reasons: one, I don't like the sages using Hyrule's holiest land as a storage bin for a sword imprisoning an evil being. I find that to be dangerous to the point of pure, unrestrained stupidity and the sages are supposed to be much smarter than that. Two, FSA Ganon contradicts LttP Ganon's established origins. Neverminding the implications throughout the game that Ganon is the cause of the SW, We are told that Ganondorf from LttP did not assume the Ganon form until he was changed into it by the SR's magic. FSA Ganondorf became Ganon when he took the trident. I think this inconsitency is too large to overlook.

Originally Posted by Tyras

Two reasons: one, I don't like the sages using Hyrule's holiest land as a storage bin for a sword imprisoning an evil being. I find that to be dangerous to the point of pure, unrestrained stupidity and the sages are supposed to be much smarter than that.

the sages didn't necessarily put the FS in the SR. I personally view it as an escape attempt by Ganon that caused him to enter the SR accidentally (as the SW suggests).

Two, FSA Ganon contradicts LttP Ganon's established origins. Neverminding the implications throughout the game that Ganon is the cause of the SW, We are told that Ganondorf from LttP did not assume the Ganon form until he was changed into it by the SR's magic. FSA Ganondorf became Ganon when he took the trident. I think this inconsitency is too large to overlook.

arguably, the Trident features similar magic if not effectively the same.

Originally Posted by Slagr

the sages didn't necessarily put the FS in the SR. I personally view it as an escape attempt by Ganon that caused him to enter the SR accidentally (as the SW suggests).

Why would the FS spit him out in the SR instead of the FS sanctuary like it did for Vaati?

Originally Posted by Tyras

Why would the FS spit him out in the SR instead of the FS sanctuary like it did for Vaati?

Because there was another seal involved than just the Four Sword itself. Remeber the triangle Zelda put around the Four Sword? That one had to be gotten around too somehow.

Originally Posted by Nerushi

Because there was another seal involved than just the Four Sword itself. Remeber the triangle Zelda put around the Four Sword? That one had to be gotten around too somehow.

who says that can't fail just like the FS's seal does?

Nothing about having a seal around the Four Sword makes the idea of Ganondorf's resealing in the sacred realm any more plausible, it really just gets in the way of it and makes the between-game-fiction even longer and more convoluted. It's literally another barrier that he would have to get through to initiate anything similar to what is suggested to fill the gap, and there is zero evidence of any of it actually happening.

Ganon is not re-sealed anywhere. The SR is already sealed from the Interloper War or OoT or whatever, and Ganon, still in the FS, transports himself to the SR by accident while trying to escape. Once in the SR, he finally breaks the FS seal.

Originally Posted by Slagr

Ganon is not re-sealed anywhere. The SR is already sealed from the Interloper War or OoT or whatever, and Ganon, still in the FS, transports himself to the SR by accident while trying to escape. Once in the SR, he finally breaks the FS seal.

Even if he could move himself and the sword and the sanctuary, all at once, that still leaves the sacred realm wide open. The narrative isn't getting any shorter, and the sacred realm isn't sealed, and there is still nothing about this story in the LTTP plot.

Originally Posted by langford

Even if he could move himself and the sword and the sanctuary, all at once, that still leaves the sacred realm wide open.

why? the seal was created back in either OoT or the Interloper War, and it only kept things in.

The narrative isn't getting any shorter, and the sacred realm isn't sealed, and there is still nothing about this story in the LTTP plot.

the SR is sealed as of OoT or Interloper War, and the LttP plot says Ganon got the the SR by accident, i.e. not forcibly sealed in OoT and not intentionally invading as SNES would say.

Originally Posted by Slagr

why? the seal was created back in either OoT or the Interloper War, and it only kept things in.
the SR is sealed as of OoT or Interloper War, and the LttP plot says Ganon got the the SR by accident, i.e. not forcibly sealed in OoT and not intentionally invading as SNES would say.

If you are putting this after WW, it doesn't keep things in any more. If you are putting after FSA, it is moved in and out of freely even by children. The LTTP plot says he was sealed violently in a battle, well after his accidental discovery of the SR the transition into the Dark Realm and his acquisition of the triforce.

Originally Posted by langford

If you are putting this after WW, it doesn't keep things in any more.

I'm just stating both side of the argument. I also believe that WW nullifies AT LttP.

If you are putting after FSA, it is moved in and out of freely even by children.

FSA's DW =/= LttP's

The LTTP plot says he was sealed violently in a battle, well after his accidental discovery of the SR the transition into the Dark Realm and his acquisition of the triforce.

it also says "when these events were obscured by time and became legend."

What are we even arguing about anymore?

Dragon Ball Z

Originally Posted by Pinecove

What are we even arguing about anymore?

last I checked it was whether the SNES LttP manual is still canonical.

last I checked it was whether the SNES LttP manual is still canonical.

Only in Japanese. And even then, the GBA manual retcons some things from the SNES manual.