Calendar Awards Forum Leaders List Members List FAQ
Advertisement

View Poll Results: Which game represents the Imprisoning War?
Ocarina of Time. 13 37.14%
Four Swords Adventures. 6 17.14%
Both, but in different timelines. 4 11.43%
Neither, the IW is just a storyline pretext. 10 28.57%
There isn't a set timeline, so they don't care about retcons. 2 5.71%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
$ LinkBack Thread Tools
 
  #101 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 09:25 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by River Zora View Post
The Oracles mention the Trident now? Buh? (if you're talking about the 'vessel' comment, you know that's not what it means right?)
ok, true. But it is an iconic symbol of the series and now has a BS, hurray.

Quote:
Lack of MS and TF put it far from aLttP. If these were removed from the final build it implies a time when such legends haven't survived, like post flood. The legends are well known by even minor villagers in aLttP.
no, the lack of the MS and TF in FSA means that Ganon and supergeo should be your primary indicators. Also, the TF is pictured occasionally and the MS is still hidden, as LttP says only one who is worthy can wield it.

Quote:
And Ganon does not end with the Triforce or in the SR so far as I can see. Sure there's that old art, but it's far from conclusive in light of other stuff and probably was made back when it was explicitly aLttP related.
The TF is in the SR, and Ganon ends up in the SR by the PotFS. This is not primary evidence, but an in-game explanation that is cohesive to other evidence.

Quote:
As for supergeography- land mass is very different- mainly the island thing. I refuse to retcon anything unless 100% necessary, and I have found a way that avoids ever doing so more than 'wasn't spectacle rock here 5 minutes ago?'
it's not an island, it's a continent. see AoL, "largest island in Hyrule." Also, FSA doesn't necessarily retcon LttP; it may just not be an accurate representation of the land. Try looking at the individual features of the land and comparing them to OoT and LttP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
then why are they called decendants instead and not successors
because NoA.

EDIT:
Quote:
Also, LttP Ganon is said to have been trapped in the SR during the SW.
no, evil was said to be coming from the SR, so a seal was made to keep things in. Later, Ganon winds up inside, not necessarily forcibly but probably not at the same time as the seal as implied by the wording./EDIT


Quote:
Last I checked the trident isn't discussed at all in LttP or OoX. And in OoX it is once again just a weapon that Ganon magics out of nowhere to use in an attack. FSA is the only game that has a trident that is important to the story and the only information that we are given on it is that it is a powerful evil weapon, nothing else.
but it's only logical to assume all Ganon-Tridents go together.

Quote:
There's still nothing in game that links the two together.
except the thieves are exclusive to ONLY FSA and LttP.
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Last Edited by Slagr; 08-13-2009 at 09:43 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #102 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 09:46 PM
River Zora River Zora is a male United Kingdom River Zora is offline
リバゾラ : I'm just gonna go away and do... fish stuff.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dartford (Home)/ Reading (Uni)
View Posts: 3,427
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Try looking at the individual features of the land and comparing them to OoT and LttP.
Nothing except Death Mountain, Kakariko and the Lost Woods are any more the same than any other game. In FSA itself it explicitly states all lost woods aren't the same and TP says that no two towns called akariko necessarily the same. Leaves DM which is the only constant and that's constant through the whole series minus tWW.

All similar buildings have different names and the mountain tower is on a different peak.

Where is Village of the Blue Maiden?

Where is the coast?

So far as I'm concerned there's a reason it hasn't been confirmed and a reason all the explicit liks, names and natures are removed.

I disagree that the Triforce is in the SR AND I disagree that Ganon is sealed in the DW. Different interpretations.
__________________
*What actually happened*What if Vaati had been sealed, not destroyed, in tMC*
*As blue, plus what if Midna had not destroyed the Mirror of Twilight*What if Link had failed in OoT*
*What if Link had failed in OoX and Ganon changed his name to Gannon*

Webcomic: 72 Hours Remain//First Place Z.U. Awards Best Zelda Fanfiction Summer '09//First Place Hombre's Theorising Contest 2010
Second Place Lupus: Design a Boss 2009/10//Bomber's Articles: The Secret Identity of Dark Link//Race to the Timeline
Reply With Quote
  #103 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 09:48 PM
Bromion Bromion is a male Germany Bromion is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Erlangen
View Posts: 1,339
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagr View Post


because NoA.
Does the Japanese version call them successors? I can't find a jap text dump of the game.



Quote:
but it's only logical to assume all Ganon-Tridents go together.
Unless you know something I don't, i don't see any real links between the three tridents.



Quote:
except the thieves are exclusive to ONLY FSA and LttP.
so what? the monkey tribes are exclusive to ONLY MM and TP. Does that mean that the Monkeys from Termina eventually settled in Hyrule?

EDIT:
Quote:
no, evil was said to be coming from the SR, so a seal was made to keep things in. Later, Ganon winds up inside, not necessarily forcibly but probably not at the same time as the seal as implied by the wording./EDIT
and who was the source of that evil? Hmm, what could have caused the Sacred Realm to start vomiting forth evil upon the land? Gee, I don't know, maybe it was because of Ganon's wish on the triforce that turned the SR into the very evil DW.
Last Edited by Bromion; 08-13-2009 at 09:52 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #104 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 09:59 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by River Zora View Post
Nothing except Death Mountain, Kakariko and the Lost Woods are any more the same than any other game.
OoT-FSA: DM, Zora's Domain, SE forest, Gerudo Desert, possibly ice where a lake once was.

FSA-LttP: DM, Zora's Domain, NW forest, Kakariko, Desert of Doubt, Hyrule Castle (with identical insides), possibly a swamp where ice once was.

Also, the tower is on the right peak if you look at LttP's mountains correctly. The entire western side of the range is supposed to be FSA's twin peaks, and the entire eastern half should be considered FSA's Zora's Domain.

Quote:
In FSA itself it explicitly states all lost woods aren't the same and TP says that no two towns called akariko necessarily the same. Leaves DM which is the only constant and that's constant through the whole series minus tWW.
DM and Zora's Domain are constant, but some are the same between some games. The Lost woods from OoT-TP-(FSA)/LttP change, so you're kinda right but I don't see your point. The Kakarikos are different from TP-LttP, but since FSA's and LttP's are in the same place, why shouldn't they be the same? I don't understand your point here either.

Quote:
All similar buildings have different names and the mountain tower is on a different peak.
see above a little.

Quote:
Where is Village of the Blue Maiden?
where is it in LoZ? where is the Hidden Village in LttP?

Quote:
Where is the coast?
not shown. Plenty of threads on this out there.

Quote:
So far as I'm concerned there's a reason it hasn't been confirmed and a reason all the explicit liks, names and natures are removed.
there are tons of obvious references and you're trying to find the slightest flaw in each. "tower on the wrong peak"?

Quote:
I disagree that the Triforce is in the SR AND I disagree that Ganon is sealed in the DW. Different interpretations.
Ganon is not sealed in the DW, he enters the DW which is already sealed. Also, where is the TF in FSA if not the SR?
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Reply With Quote
  #105 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 10:02 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
Does the Japanese version call them successors? I can't find a jap text dump of the game.
I believe so, although that's just what I heard from one of the old folks around here.

Quote:
Unless you know something I don't, i don't see any real links between the three tridents.
they're all tridents.

Quote:
so what? the monkey tribes are exclusive to ONLY MM and TP. Does that mean that the Monkeys from Termina eventually settled in Hyrule?
tee hee... alternate reality amirite?

Quote:
and who was the source of that evil? Hmm, what could have caused the Sacred Realm to start vomiting forth evil upon the land? Gee, I don't know, maybe it was because of Ganon's wish on the triforce that turned the SR into the very evil DW.
that's rather speculative. TP's Interloper legend tells of evil from the SR not associated with Ganon.

EDIT: darn it. I need to remember to C+V and edit when this happens.
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Last Edited by Slagr; 08-13-2009 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #106 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 10:13 PM
Bromion Bromion is a male Germany Bromion is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Erlangen
View Posts: 1,339
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagr View Post
I believe so, although that's just what I heard from one of the old folks around here.
I'll keep looking.



Quote:
they're all tridents.
That doesn't make them the same trident.



Quote:
tee hee... alternate reality amirite?
Well. those are the only two games that feature a clearly organized group of monkeys, they must be connected somehow.



Quote:
that's rather speculative.
No it's not, that's what the original SW story tells us. And the original version is always best in my book.
Quote:
TP's Interloper legend tells of evil from the SR not associated with Ganon.
No, it tells us that an evil power was trying to get into the SR. We are never told if they succeeded in reaching it. only that people started fighting over it. Furthermore, the seal that resulted from the interloper war only kept evil out (as far as we know) not in as the SW seal is said to do.
Last Edited by Bromion; 08-13-2009 at 10:16 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #107 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 10:19 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
That doesn't make them the same trident.
It's Ganon's trident, and it's almost as iconic as the MS. It's more logical to assume they're the same.

Quote:
Well. those are the only two games that feature a clearly organized group of monkeys, they must be connected somehow.
they are connected: alternate reality.

Quote:
No it's not, that's what the original SW story tells us. And the original version is always best in my book.
the SW does not say Ganon was the source of evil as of GBA LttP.

Quote:
No, it tells us that an evil power was trying to get into the SR. We are never told if they succeed in reaching the SR.
It's a war over the SR, there's evil from the SR (not specified from inside or from the entrance in either case), and a seal is cast on the SR.
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Reply With Quote
  #108 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 10:27 PM
Bromion Bromion is a male Germany Bromion is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Erlangen
View Posts: 1,339
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagr View Post

the SW does not say Ganon was the source of evil as of GBA LttP.
That's because the GBA manual is the sparknotes version. At that point, Oot was, without a doubt, LttP BS. And in all honesty, who hasn't played OoT? Nintendo didn't need to make the manual as detailed because most people already knew the relevant info or didn't care about it.
Last Edited by Bromion; 08-13-2009 at 10:28 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #109 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 10:29 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
That's because the GBA manual is the sparknotes version. At that point, Oot was, without a doubt, LttP BS. And in all honesty, who hasn't played OoT? Nintendo didn't need to make the manual as detailed because most people already knew the relevant info or didn't care about it.
So why not copy+paste the SNES story instead of making deliberate changes?
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Reply With Quote
  #110 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 10:40 PM
Bromion Bromion is a male Germany Bromion is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Erlangen
View Posts: 1,339
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagr View Post
So why not copy+paste the SNES story instead of making deliberate changes?
Why bother making the manual 6 pages longer than it needs to be just so they can tell a story taht everyone already knows about when they can give a short summary of it in 2 pages?
Last Edited by Bromion; 08-13-2009 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #111 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 10:42 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
Why bother making the manual 6 pages longer than it needs to be just so they can tell a story taht everyone already knows about?
why bother changing the story in the process?
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Reply With Quote
  #112 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 10:49 PM
Bromion Bromion is a male Germany Bromion is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Erlangen
View Posts: 1,339
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagr View Post
why bother changing the story in the process?
they didn't. they just cut it down in size. the in game text of the GBA version still says that it was Ganon who rediscovered the SR and turned it into the DW and that all of the evil in the DW is a result of his actions. Evil things do not randomly spawn from holy places. The developers intended for LttP ganon's seizure of the triforce to be the cause of the SW. I have seen nothing to suggest that this has changed.
Last Edited by Bromion; 08-13-2009 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #113 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 10:53 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
they didn't. they just cut it down in size. the in game text of the GBA version still says that it was Ganon who rediscovered the SR and turned it into the DW and that all of the evil in the DW is a result of his actions. Evil things do not randomly spawn from holy places. The developers intended for LttP ganon to be the cause of the SW. I have seen nothing to suggest that this has changed.
Ganon did discover the SR and did create the DW, but it's only by interpretation that you conclude that the evil in the SW story is caused by Ganon.
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Reply With Quote
  #114 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 11:11 PM
Bromion Bromion is a male Germany Bromion is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Erlangen
View Posts: 1,339
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagr View Post
Ganon did discover the SR and did create the DW, but it's only by interpretation that you conclude that the evil in the SW story is caused by Ganon.
:Facepalm: It is not interpretation! The original unedited manual says in no unclear terms that Ganon's actions caused the SW.

Since you don't seem to understand the concept of literary abridgement let me put it another way. Lets say you're watching some anime, say the first season of DBZ. problem is it's the original ocean dub. This version is heavily edited for content, and as a result is significantly shorter and leaves out many deatils that were found in the orignial, uncut, version of the show. Now which version of the show is more correct? the simplified version that leaves things out, or the original version?

Just because nintendo decided to make the manual shorter does not mean that they struck the parts that weren't included in the summary from the series canon.
Last Edited by Bromion; 08-13-2009 at 11:13 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #115 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 11:31 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
:Facepalm: It is not interpretation! The original unedited manual says in no unclear terms that Ganon's actions caused the SW.
in both versions, the story is obscured by the mists of time. Given TP's extremely similar story and war over the SR, the two are likely the same event. The SW can not possibly occur as the SNES manual tells it, but GBA's is possible.

Quote:
Since you don't seem to understand the concept of literary abridgement let me put it another way. Lets say you're watching some anime, say the first season of DBZ. problem is it's the original ocean dub. This version is heavily edited for content, and as a result is significantly shorter and leaves out many deatils that were found in the orignial, uncut, version of the show. Now which version of the show is more correct? the simplified version that leaves things out, or the original version?
it's only comparable if Freiza is completely removed from the story behind Namek's destruction. If this was the case, I'd hazard to say that the story was rewritten.

Quote:
Just because nintendo decided to make the manual shorter does not mean that they struck the parts that weren't included in the summary from the series canon.
considering that the SNES events are impossible now, I'd say those parts aren't canon.
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Reply With Quote
  #116 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 11:37 PM
Bromion Bromion is a male Germany Bromion is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Erlangen
View Posts: 1,339
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagr View Post


it's only comparable if Freiza is completely removed from the story behind Namek's destruction. If this was the case, I'd hazard to say that the story was rewritten.
That part wasn't included in the original dub and was left more or less in its orginal state. now answer the question kiddo. Which is more correct; the abridged version, or the original?



Quote:
considering that the SNES events are impossible now, I'd say those parts aren't canon.
What makes it impossible? And why do those reason make it impossible?
Reply With Quote
  #117 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 11:49 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
That part wasn't included in the original dub and was left more or less in its orginal state.
huh? Freiza certainly destroyed Namek in the dub.

Quote:
now answer the question kiddo. Which is more correct; the abridged version, or the original?
the recent version that doesn't contradict other games.

Quote:
What makes it impossible? And why do those reasons make it impossible?
Well, technically it's possible, but you have to make up another war over the SR and another Ganon.
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Reply With Quote
  #118 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 11:57 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
(◕‿◕✿)
Send a message via AIM to theunabletable
3DS ID: 3050-7697-1416
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norwalk, Southern California
View Posts: 4,442
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
why bother changing the story in the process?
So tell me, what was the super important reason for shortening the Agahnim or creation story?
Reply With Quote
  #119 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-14-2009, 12:00 AM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
Sage of Wisdom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: IL
View Posts: 1,008
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Table View Post
So tell me, what was the super important reason for shortening the Agahnim or creation story?
the lulz Ż\(°_o)/Ż

the point about the SNES version being impossible at this point still stands.
__________________
__________WW/PH-ST
SS-tMC-FS-OoT
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻMM-TP-FSA-LttP-LoZ/AoL/OoS/OoA/LA
Reply With Quote
  #120 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-14-2009, 12:01 AM
Jarsh Jarsh is offline
Guardian Dragon
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Heiuso's Sea
View Posts: 2,026
Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
:Facepalm: It is not interpretation! The original unedited manual says in no unclear terms that Ganon's actions caused the SW.

Since you don't seem to understand the concept of literary abridgement let me put it another way. Lets say you're watching some anime, say the first season of DBZ. problem is it's the original ocean dub. This version is heavily edited for content, and as a result is significantly shorter and leaves out many deatils that were found in the orignial, uncut, version of the show. Now which version of the show is more correct? the simplified version that leaves things out, or the original version?

Just because nintendo decided to make the manual shorter does not mean that they struck the parts that weren't included in the summary from the series canon.
I'd say that's more a product of localization, which isn't the case with ALttP. Whatever happens in Dragon Ball Kai I'd take as more canon than what happens in Dragon Ball Z, since it's a rewrite/remake. Just like I'd take the more recent version of ALttP as the canonical one.
Last Edited by Jarsh; 08-14-2009 at 12:05 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
imprisoning, poll, war


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Advertisement

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:02 AM.

Copyright © 2014 Zelda Universe - Privacy Statement -