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View Poll Results: Which game represents the Imprisoning War?
Ocarina of Time. 13 37.14%
Four Swords Adventures. 6 17.14%
Both, but in different timelines. 4 11.43%
Neither, the IW is just a storyline pretext. 10 28.57%
There isn't a set timeline, so they don't care about retcons. 2 5.71%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 06:57 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by River Zora View Post
According to you- your argument is circular. You use the Palace to prove the link between the two games then use the link between the games to prove the sword is canon.
no, I use all the storyline evidence to link FSA to LttP, then PotFS makes perfect sense.
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  #62 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 06:58 PM
langford United_States langford is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by Slagr View Post
But FSA's story interposes FS and LttP, bridging them. At the time of FS/LttP, it was just an item in a spin-off. Once FSA came out, the Four Sword had a big role in the series story, and the fact that FSA was developed to be after FS and before LttP seems evident of an attempt at connecting the two.
If FSA were developed to be that, it would have ended differently than it did. Fans created a "between story" to mask the flaws, and even then it ignores scores of other flaws with FSA in general, such as the sudden reappearance of OOT races only to have them vanish immediately after. Also, the filler story is built in reverse, it doesn't build a theory based on what happens in the games, it invents a story of what happens based on the timeline theory.
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  #63 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 06:59 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

@langford: What's your timeline?
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  #64 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:00 PM
Jarsh Jarsh is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by Pinecove View Post
This argument is adourned untill I find the art.
Do you mean this?

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  #65 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:01 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by langford View Post
If FSA were developed to be that, it would have ended differently than it did. Fans created a "between story" to mask the flaws, and even then it ignores scores of other flaws with FSA in general, such as the sudden reappearance of OOT races only to have them vanish immediately after. Also, the filler story is built in reverse, it doesn't build a theory based on what happens in the games, it invents a story of what happens based on the timeline theory.
There is plenty of evidence to connect FSA to LttP without using the PotFS as evidence, but through that connection the PotFS is explained.

@ Roc Thul: oh wow
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  #66 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:03 PM
River Zora River Zora is a male United Kingdom River Zora is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
There is plenty of evidence to connect FSA to LttP without using the PotFS as evidence,
I disagree... but then I don't like micro-Geography or aesthetics as proof....
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  #67 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:06 PM
langford United_States langford is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagr View Post
There is plenty of evidence to connect FSA to LttP without using the PotFS as evidence, but through that connection the PotFS is explained.

@ Roc Thul: oh wow
It doesn't explain it, it gets in the way of it. The TotFS is literally accessed by playing FS. That's not even an interpretation of meaning, that is literally how it is accessed. Would an item accessed by bridging OOS and OOA be attributed to LA?
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  #68 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:10 PM
Triforce of the Gods Triforce of the Gods is a male United States Triforce of the Gods is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

Ganon is sealed in the Four Sword and the Four Sword is found broken in Dark World. What do you think happened? Did Link break it and take it in there when he went to kill Ganon?
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  #69 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:12 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by langford View Post
It doesn't explain it, it gets in the way of it. The TotFS is literally accessed by playing FS. That's not even an interpretation of meaning, that is literally how it is accessed.
well, FS does occur before LttP in most timelines.

Quote:
Would an item accessed by bridging OOS and OOA be attributed to LA?
only if OoX-LA-OoX if I understood you properly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by River Zora View Post
I disagree... but then I don't like micro-Geography or aesthetics as proof....
I'm talking story. You'll never see me using graphics as proof (tMC first anyone?). The shrine maidens, the Trident BS, the new Ganon origin, the Kakariko thieves BS, etc, all lead into LttP by clear intent.
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  #70 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:13 PM
langford United_States langford is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods View Post
Ganon is sealed in the Four Sword and the Four Sword is found broken in Dark World. What do you think happened? Did Link break it and take it in there when he went to kill Ganon?
Neither, it's non-canon bonus content on the cartridge with no connection to LTTP's plot or quest. If you don't play FS to a certain level of completion, it doesn't even pretend to exist.
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  #71 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:16 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by langford View Post
Neither, it's non-canon bonus content on the cartridge with no connection to LTTP's plot or quest. If you don't play FS to a certain level of completion, it doesn't even pretend to exist.
it's subtly relevant to LttP's story in that Ganon is in the SR for some reason, and FSA+PotFS explains that. Any other means of explaining it (except direct OoT-LttP) is completely unfounded. At least this theory uses in-game content.
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  #72 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:17 PM
Triforce of the Gods Triforce of the Gods is a male United States Triforce of the Gods is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by langford View Post
If you don't play FS to a certain level of completion, it doesn't even pretend to exist.
If you don't play both Oracle games with linked passwords, the linked ending doesn't even pretend to exist either. So if the PotFS is not canon, neither is the OoX linked ending and that's just stupid.
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  #73 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:28 PM
langford United_States langford is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagr View Post
it's subtly relevant to LttP's story in that Ganon is in the SR for some reason, and FSA+PotFS explains that. Any other means of explaining it (except direct OoT-LttP) is completely unfounded. At least this theory uses in-game content.
LOL, I could swear this was the exact subject being discussed in this thread about a million pages ago.

At the time of FS + GBA-LTTP's release, WW did not quite exist yet. GBA-LTTP didn't need anything other than OOT for it's story, and was even given many of the sound effects used in OOT. FSA didn't appear for two more years.
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  #74 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:31 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by langford View Post
LOL, I could swear this was the exact subject being discussed in this thread about a million pages ago.
it's good to recap

Quote:
At the time of FS + GBA-LTTP's release, WW did not quite exist yet. GBA-LTTP didn't need anything other than OOT for it's story, and was even given many of the sound effects used in OOT. FSA didn't appear for two more years.
since WW interrupted the OoT-LttP flow, FSA was developed as LttP's new direct BS, including, conveniently, the Four Sword in a major story role.
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  #75 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:40 PM
River Zora River Zora is a male United Kingdom River Zora is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

Here is my million pages ago response.

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They are very different scenarios. The password is given after the credits and put in before the beginning of the game. Link is not included in the link... It is no different from the transition between tWW and PH. The PLAYER'S actions aren't referenced in the plot- LINK's actions are.

Even IF the password was given in-game to LINK not to the PLAYER I would be more inclined to accept it, like I've said, if they're the same Link as in OoX- however the fact is the rat man says that either Link or the Player (or possibly both...) in aLttP hasn't done anything heroic enough to enter; yet when the PLAYER instigates FS Link doing so suddenly the 'you' the rat refers to is 'precisely the kind of hero this place is designed for'. If they were the same Link you could cite some really weird progression perhaps, but that's impossible in so many ways.

The 'you' must refer to the player, thus the palace is designed for the player- NOT for aLttP Link.

There is a point in-game where the PLAYER is being addressed- this and the associated quest therefore can not be canon. The fact the 'reward' for the dungeon is finding out player stats increases this likelihood and view.
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  #76 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:41 PM
langford United_States langford is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by Slagr View Post
it's good to recap



since WW interrupted the OoT-LttP flow, FSA was developed as LttP's new direct BS, including, conveniently, the Four Sword in a major story role.
I very much disagree with this interpretation of developer intent. If if at some point the idea was in their minds, and if they really wanted to redo the IW, I believe they could have made the game far more similar to both the original IW text and Ganondorf's state in LTTP than they did.

Given they have never publicly stated FSA as the IW, I doubt we will reach a consensus in this dialog. The only endorsement they have given publicly was OOT as the IW, but it preceded the existence of WW by many years. Developer intent at this time is very open to debate.
Last Edited by langford; 08-13-2009 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #77 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:47 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by langford View Post
I very much disagree with this interpretation of developer intent. If if at some point the idea was in their minds, and if they really wanted to redo the IW, I believe they could have made the game far more similar to both the original IW text and Ganondorf's state in LTTP than they did.
originally, they did, but the SW elements were removed while a lot of the LttP BS elements still remained. Whether or not it's the SW now (I did not vote in such a way) does not affect its status as LttP's immediate prequel.

Quote:
Given they have never publicly stated FSA as the IW, I doubt we will reach a consensus in this dialog. The only endorsement they have given publicly was OOT as the IW, but it preceded the existence of WW by many years. Developer intent at this time is very open to debate.
It depends on how you view the SW events: all occur at once or some occur here and there and culminate in LttP. I prefer the latter in light of recent games.
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  #78 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 07:47 PM
Sephiner Sephiner is a male United States Sephiner is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

Ocarina of Time. I believe it definitely includes the Great Cataclysm, which is part of the IW. It also seems like OoT is the only possible game to include it since it is the earliest in the Timeline and no one new who ganondorf was soo....
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:01 PM
Bromion Bromion is a male Germany Bromion is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by Slagr View Post
originally, they did, but the SW elements were removed while a lot of the LttP BS elements still remained. Whether or not it's the SW now (I did not vote in such a way) does not affect its status as LttP's immediate prequel.
When did Nintendo ever say that FSA was the prequel to LttP? As far as I know they never did.
Last Edited by Bromion; 08-13-2009 at 08:03 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #80 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 08-13-2009, 08:04 PM
Slagr Slagr is a male United States Slagr is offline
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Re: Imprisoning War poll

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Originally Posted by Tyras View Post
When did Nintendo ever say that FSA was the prequel to LttP?
it's not confirmed, but it is heavily implied by FSA's story and other references.
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