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Old 08-09-2009, 02:07 AM
Link the Titan Link the Titan is a male United States Link the Titan is offline
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Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

One day, I re-explored the Spirit Temple, and in Twinrova's room, on the pillars, I saw a design that looks and reminds me a lot of Majora's Mask. Now this probably doesn't mean anything, but perhaps this is the design that Majora's Mask was based on. Or to theorize even more, this could mean that Majora's Mask wasn't even from Termina, and was originally used by the Gerudo. This would support the theory that the ancestors of the Twili used Majora's Mask, and how some people believe that the Gerudo are the Twili's ancestors. Majora's Mask coming from Hyrule would kind of make sense as the Happy Mask Salesman had the mask, and he is from Hyrule.
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:32 AM
Spire III Spire III is a male United States Spire III is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Mind taking a screen for us? I'd like to see what you speak of, but can't bust out OoT right now.
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Old 08-09-2009, 06:04 AM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?



I assume that this is the texture you are reffering to? I'm not sure, it doesnt really appear like anything I am familiar with in Zelda. The Spirit Temple does have a few interesting features, the use of light to burn off the face of the 'Goddess of the Sands' was strange, and people have always speculated that the circular mirror within the Temple looks slightly like the Mirror of Twilight.

However, I see a multitude of practical problems with the Gerudo being the ancestors of the Twili. The Twili were unboubtedly sealed long prior to Ocarina of Time, and the Gerudo are shown to be totally intact during the course of that title. The connection between the Twili and Majora's Mask is almost non existant, although for other reasons I think that they may have a slight case for connection, although I wont go into depth unless asked.

The Mask Salesman claims to 'Travel far and wide in search of masks'. This implies that he could have sourced Majora's Mask from anywhere, including Hyrule. However, his shop exists in Hyrule, and he travels far to obtain masks - considering Majora's Mask would be the most exotic of his finds, and that he went to 'Great lengths' to obtain it, I dont think that he sourced it from Hyrule. Termina is the most likely possibility, considering the images of it throughout the Temples of Termina. The supposed representation within Stone Tower is quite debateable, but even accusations such as that tether Majora's Mask to Termina rather than any other location.
Last Edited by Hyperactivity; 08-09-2009 at 07:29 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:28 AM
Potent Col Potent Col is a male Canary Islands Potent Col is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

There are lots of strange synbols and pictures all over the Spirit Temple, but we can't say for sure what they all mean or why they are there, but they could be the different faces of various demons and spirits in the desert that were sealed within the Spirit Temple, or maybe even sealed within the Mirror of Twilight, if the mirror in the Spirit Temple is indeed the very same mirror...
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:33 AM
Potent Col Potent Col is a male Canary Islands Potent Col is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post


I assume that this is the texture you are reffering to? I'm not sure, it doesnt really appear like anything I am familiar with in Zelda. The Spirit Temple does have a few interesting features, the use of light to burn off the face of the 'Goddess of the Sands' was strange, and people have always speculated that the circular mirror within the Temple looks slightly like the Mirror of Twilight.

However, I see a multitude of practical problems with the Gerudo being the ancestors of the Twili. The Twili were unboubtedly sealed long prior to Ocarina of Time, and the Gerudo are shown to be totally intact during the course of that title. The connection between the Twili and Majora's Mask is almost non existant, although for other reasons I think that they may have a slight case for connection, although I wont go into depth unless asked.

The Mask Salesman claims to 'Travel far and wide in search of masks'. This implies that he could have sourced Majora's Mask from anywhere, including Hyrule. However, his shop exists in Hyrule, and he travels far to obtain masks - considering Majora's Mask would be the most exotic of his finds, and that he went to 'Great lengths' to obtain it, I dont think that he sourced it from Hyrule. Termina is the most likely possibility, considering the images of it throughout the Temples of Termina. The supposed representation within Stone Tower is quite debateable, but even accusations such as that tether Majora's Mask to Termina rather than any other location.
Or, if not much of a stretch, the ancesotrs of the Twili could have been the ancestors of the Gerudo, too. I also like to think that the Gerudo were in possesion of the Mirror of Twilight and kept it hidden within the Spirit Temple until it was found by the Sages, considering the Gerudo have a strong connection to mirrors and live in the desert, and the Sages had the Mirror of Twilight after the Gerudo and Ganon invaded Hyrule.
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:45 AM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

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Originally Posted by Potent Col View Post
Or, if not much of a stretch, the ancesotrs of the Twili could have been the ancestors of the Gerudo, too. I also like to think that the Gerudo were in possesion of the Mirror of Twilight and kept it hidden within the Spirit Temple until it was found by the Sages, considering the Gerudo have a strong connection to mirrors and live in the desert, and the Sages had the Mirror of Twilight after the Gerudo and Ganon invaded Hyrule.
We really have nothing to distinguish that circular mirror within the Spirit Temple as the Mirror of Twilight, but it's fun to theorise about it.

The temple itself is also filled with conflicting ideas, such as the Triforce emblem that responds to Zelda's Lullaby. Ganondorf also apparently used it merely as a hideout temporarily. Although it's presence in the desert, the Witches, Nabooru being the sage, the Gerudo emblem upon the mirror sheild, and the Gerudo symbols above certain doors within the Temple are likely enough.

Despite my opinion that the Mirror within the Spirit Temple isnt of much importance, I am interested that it's reflected light is used to burn the face of the 'Sand Goddess'.
Last Edited by Hyperactivity; 08-09-2009 at 09:27 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:15 AM
Kostya Kostya is a male United States Kostya is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

The twili are the ancestors of the Sheikah most likely. It also seems likely that they created Majora's Mask.
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:24 AM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

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Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link View Post
The twili are the ancestors of the Sheikah most likely. It also seems likely that they created Majora's Mask.
What possible links do the Sheikah, or the Twili, have with Majora's Mask? I am also struggling to discern possibly how the Twili precede the Sheikah, according to your post. Assuming you are being serious, what makes you think so?
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:29 AM
Kostya Kostya is a male United States Kostya is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
What possible links do the Sheikah, or the Twili, have with Majora's Mask? I am also struggling to discern possibly how the Twili precede the Sheikah, according to your post. Assuming you are being serious, what makes you think so?
Okay let's get one thing straight here. In Japan the Twili are the Shadow Clan so i will refer to them as such. The Sheikah are the Shadow Tribe, note the similarities. My theory is that a group of Sheikah turned evil and attempted to control the SR. Their first attempt was through the use of the mask but it was too powerful. They then created the fused shadow and almost suceeded. Then the light spirits intervened and banished them to the TR. The rest of the Sheikah served the royal family afterwards. By the time of OOT most of the Sheikah are dead. They either died in the fierce wars a decade or so previously, most of the Sheikah were banished, or a combination of the two.
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:47 AM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

^Despite my own differing observations which I will post, I think that the core of what you are saying is quite stable, and I just like the theory, anyway/ <3

Firstly (randomly), I will point out that a succinct japanese translation does not claim that Majora's Mask was sealed in 'Shadow', rather 'Eternal Darkness', or something to that effect. I'm mentioning this because other members here think there is a connection to the Twili through the use of the term 'Shadow'.

Well, a previous attempt in the race's past to establish some sort of dominion over the Sacred Realm would explain the supposed wealth of knowledge the Sheikah are told to have in regard to the Triforce and such, if we are to believe Zelda, disguised as Sheik. Sheik claimed that the legend regarding the Triforce split was passed down by the Sheikah, and for the sake of mentioning it, said the same about the Legend of the Temples (foretelling the fate of the Hero of Time).

But every presentation of the Sheikah I have seen has been positive, although I havent played all the games. As far as I have seen, they have always been loyal to the Royal Family as a group, and that would explain any knowledge/Legend of the Sacred Realm, too.

Furthermore I see no connection between Majora's Mask, the Twili and the Sheikah. Indeed if you ascribe to the notion of comparison between the Fused Shadows/Majora's Mask, they are notably different, not similar. Majora's Mask is 'Evil, wicked', and a sentient will. It enslaves the wearer. The Fused Shadows are never described as evil at all, they are Shadow Magic, and empower the wearer. I will note that Spirit Lanayru did tell Link to beware of Power, but not specifially the Fused Shadows.

I won't deny that if different groups are referred to with the 'Shadow' Title, that may be significant, although to further connect that with Majora's Mask is unfounded. My personal take on this issue is that there is no solid existing group that we can pinpoint as the source of the Twili. It was likely a combination of groups, or a distinct, unknown group that were all sealed.
Last Edited by Hyperactivity; 08-09-2009 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 08-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Potent Col Potent Col is a male Canary Islands Potent Col is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post
^Despite my own differing observations which I will post, I think that the core of what you are saying is quite stable, and I just like the theory, anyway/ <3

Firstly (randomly), I will point out that a succinct japanese translation does not claim that Majora's Mask was sealed in 'Shadow', rather 'Eternal Darkness', or something to that effect. I'm mentioning this because other members here think there is a connection to the Twili through the use of the term 'Shadow'.

Well, a previous attempt in the race's past to establish some sort of dominion over the Sacred Realm would explain the supposed wealth of knowledge the Sheikah are told to have in regard to the Triforce and such, if we are to believe Zelda, disguised as Sheik. Sheik claimed that the legend regarding the Triforce split was passed down by the Sheikah, and for the sake of mentioning it, said the same about the Legend of the Temples (foretelling the fate of the Hero of Time).

But every presentation of the Sheikah I have seen has been positive, although I havent played all the games. As far as I have seen, they have always been loyal to the Royal Family as a group, and that would explain any knowledge/Legend of the Sacred Realm, too.

Furthermore I see no connection between Majora's Mask, the Twili and the Sheikah. Indeed if you ascribe to the notion of comparison between the Fused Shadows/Majora's Mask, they are notably different, not similar. Majora's Mask is 'Evil, wicked', and a sentient will. It enslaves the wearer. The Fused Shadows are never described as evil at all, they are Shadow Magic, and empower the wearer. I will note that Spirit Lanayru did tell Link to beware of Power, but not specifially the Fused Shadows.

I won't deny that if different groups are referred to with the 'Shadow' Title, that may be significant, although to further connect that with Majora's Mask is unfounded. My personal take on this issue is that there is no solid existing group that we can pinpoint as the source of the Twili. It was likely a combination of groups, or a distinct, unknown group that were all sealed.
The is lots of evidence that there is more to the Fused Shadow than what we were told straight. For example, in the cutscene where Midna first dones her helmet piece of Fused SHaodw and looksup at it, she grins and looks as if she is about to turn psychotic. Lanayru constantly notes how 'evil' and dangerous the Fused Shadow is, and the cutscene descibing it shows it as evil and manipulative, showing it as making people kill each other, and sa far as Link killing Llia because of it.

When the cutscene ends, it shows all four pieces of the Fused SHsodws floating around Link, Lanayru saying strange things about them, the scene goes silent, and Link looks as if he is being manipulated when the pieces circle him and about to turn evil, then he snaps out of it and looks firghtened, showing that there is more to the Fused Shadow than meets the eye.

The constant weird cutscenes concerning the Fused Shadow show it, as I said, as evil and that it manipulates whoever uses it. Another Sheikah-related thing is that, in the strange cutscene about how evil it is, it shows the evil eye synbol several times almost as if it is watching Link. I swear, the eye on it is creepy when it looks like it is looking at him.
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Old 08-09-2009, 11:00 AM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potent Col View Post
The is lots of evidence that there is more to the Fused Shadow than what we were told straight. For example, in the cutscene where Midna first dones her helmet piece of Fused Shaodow and looksup at it, she grins and looks as if she is about to turn psychotic.
From my perspective she was merely thinking of revenge, or retribution, and possibly just anger at having been banished from the Twilight Realm, ect. There would need to be evidence that the artifact itself influenced her, which there isnt.
Quote:
and the cutscene descibing it shows it as evil and manipulative, showing it as making people kill each other, and so far as Link killing Llia because of it.
From memory that occured before the Fused Shadows were introduced into the cutscene. Nevertheless, it was in relation to the temptation of the Triforce.
Quote:
Lanayru constantly notes how 'evil' and dangerous the Fused Shadow is
No, that is totally false. Not once is the Fused Shadow described as evil, merely dark, at the most. The Cutscene you describe also mentions Triforce knowledge as the cause of unrest and greed. The Fused Shadows are mentioned as such;
Quote:
O hero chosen by the goddesses... Beware... Those who do not know the danger of wielding power will, before long, be ruled by it.
Lanayru's story was not about any danger specifically with the Fused Shadows, rather the problem with 'the danger of weilding power'. This relates both to the temptation of the Triforce within the story and the Fused Shadow. But that does not make either artifact evil, whatsoever.

Indeed my impression was that it was deliberately referenced merely as being powerful, and useful in the right hands. It is not an evil power in itself, else Lanayru would not have supported it's use.
Last Edited by Hyperactivity; 08-09-2009 at 11:02 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 08-09-2009, 11:53 AM
Kostya Kostya is a male United States Kostya is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Indeed. The situation with the fused shadow reminds me of how Ganon was corrupted by the triforce when he obtained it. His intentions were good but as the ALTTP manual says: He slew his followers and touched the Triforce with his bloodstained hands. So yes the moral of the story is that power corrupts. Although the connection between the Shadow Clan and the Mask is debatable i do believe there are several things that could link the Twili with the Sheikah.
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:23 PM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

I will happily discern any evidence you present to me, but as it stands I see no link between Majora's Mask, The Sheikah, and the Twili. Anything else you could tell me to establish that would be appreciated.

My current opinion is that if any existing race must be labelled as the one that preceded the Twili (remember my opinion being that none have a strong enough connection), I would choose the Terminians. They have an established history of defying the Three Goddesses, and a few curious tidbits of similarity.

I have mentioned this in other threads, and it may merely be an easter egg of sorts, but here goes. In the context of Twilight Princess we see Zant transform Midna into an Imp, and banish her from the Twilight Realm. I wondered - why an Imp? And I was then reminded of the story of the 'Four Giants' within Termina. Skull Kid had previously, (long, long prior to MM, before the creation of the four worlds) wronged all the people of Termina, and they recognised him as a menace, and he was subsequently banished. The Terminians recognised the Imp as a negative cultural symbol, hence his inclusion in the stories of Anju's Grandmother.

We see similarites in Midna's and Skull Kid's stories. Both Imps, both Masked, both banished to a higher realm. I am not implying that they are connected tangibly, but if the Twili do indeed have Terminan ancestory, it explains Zant's choice of punishment, with the Imp being a negative cultural symbol. It is quite a weak link, but perhaps the 'Majora eye' is hinting towards a themed clue between Midna/Skull Kid, rather than Fused Shadows/Majora's Mask.

Note that it is all theory, and my actual (current) conclusions regarding this topic have already been said.
Last Edited by Hyperactivity; 08-09-2009 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:45 PM
The annoying Bird United Kingdom The annoying Bird is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Nintendo 64 wall textures are hardly any good evidense. Why? Becuase developers only had 4 Kb (Kilobytes) of Texture memory to use. What they use as textures were blurry and small. And only used for small purposes.
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:54 PM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

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Originally Posted by Phazon goron View Post
Nintendo 64 wall textures are hardly any good evidense. Why? Becuase developers only had 4 Kb (Kilobytes) of Texture memory to use. What they use as textures were blurry and small. And only used for small purposes.
I would halfway agree with you, however, having ripped textures from Majora's Mask myself, I see clever use of transperancies and overlayed texture to create a desired look. Small textures yes, but if we see similarities it is worthwhile to mention. They can be good evidence.



The above is a directly ripped texture from Majora's Mask, and the images in my signature are all (edited) ripped textures. Detail could still be achieved to a sufficient standard, enough to create distinct shapes and appearances.
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:50 PM
Spire III Spire III is a male United States Spire III is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

No one created the Fused Shadow. It's formation was the result of the Dark Interloper's powers being prevented, extracted, and concentrated into a single form. Basically, whatever powers one may use with the Fused Shadow are the powers that the Dark Interlopers had. Majora's Mask may have been similarly formed by an ancient Terminian tribe parallel to the ancestors of the Twili.

Perhaps the tribe who created Majora's Mask was also banished to the Twilight Realm. Seeing as how both the Sheikah and the Ikana are missing from Kakariko and Ikana Canyon respectively (which to note, are parallel locations, having both a graveyard, well, etc.), perhaps both were actually banished to the Twilight Realm and together became the Twili. It seems as if Stone Tower Temple is Termina's Spirit Temple, so perhaps through the same passageway that warps Link to Twinmold's lair were the Ikana [ancestors] banished.
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:05 PM
Hyperactivity Hyperactivity is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spire III View Post
No one created the Fused Shadow. It's formation was the result of the Dark Interloper's powers being prevented, extracted, and concentrated into a single form.
That has a strange aura of plausability around it, although can we assume it true when we only see a representation in the form of the Shadows? I suppose the name is quite telling.
Quote:
Majora's Mask may have been similarly formed by an ancient Terminian tribe parallel to the ancestors of the Twili.
The Parallel has never been established as anything more than an excuse or loophole by which Nintendo justified reused character models. It was never mentioned ingame, and only once in the Manual, referencing only the familiarity of character appearances.
Quote:
Seeing as how both the Sheikah and the Ikana are missing from Kakariko and Ikana Canyon respectively (which to note, are parallel locations, having both a graveyard, well, etc.), perhaps both were actually banished to the Twilight Realm and together became the Twili.
I'm not sure. Ikana was desribed as a land of wandering spirits. Although it doesnt down your theory, descendants of Ikana Kingdom I assume live in Clock Town, because there is an Ikanian symbol within Clock Tower.

On a slightly random note, there is actually no evidence to indicate that the Ikanians (under the King, or otherwise from that Kingdom) built Stone Tower. Only Sharp apparently knew the pathway to the temple, and Igos Du Ikana spoke of the tower like an unknown quantity.
Quote:
Sharp
I, the only one who knows the way into the temple, shall direct you to the King.
Quote:
Igos Du Ikana
It all happened after somebody thrust open the doors of that Stone Tower.
In my opinion, the builders of Stone Tower were from an even earlier time.
Last Edited by Hyperactivity; 08-09-2009 at 02:11 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:23 PM
Mask Collector Mexico Mask Collector is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Quote:
I have mentioned this in other threads, and it may merely be an easter egg of sorts, but here goes. In the context of Twilight Princess we see Zant transform Midna into an Imp, and banish her from the Twilight Realm. I wondered - why an Imp? And I was then reminded of the story of the 'Four Giants' within Termina. Skull Kid had previously, (long, long prior to MM, before the creation of the four worlds) wronged all the people of Termina, and they recognised him as a menace, and he was subsequently banished. The Terminians recognised the Imp as a negative cultural symbol, hence his inclusion in the stories of Anju's Grandmother.

We see similarites in Midna's and Skull Kid's stories. Both Imps, both Masked, both banished to a higher realm. I am not implying that they are connected tangibly, but if the Twili do indeed have Terminan ancestory, it explains Zant's choice of punishment, with the Imp being a negative cultural symbol. It is quite a weak link, but perhaps the 'Majora eye' is hinting towards a themed clue between Midna/Skull Kid, rather than Fused Shadows/Majora's Mask.
All that makes sense, maybe the Twili have Terminian ancestory or have Links with Termina.
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:44 PM
Link the Titan Link the Titan is a male United States Link the Titan is offline
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Re: Majora's Mask in the Spirit Temple?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperactivity View Post


I assume that this is the texture you are reffering to? I'm not sure, it doesnt really appear like anything I am familiar with in Zelda. The Spirit Temple does have a few interesting features, the use of light to burn off the face of the 'Goddess of the Sands' was strange, and people have always speculated that the circular mirror within the Temple looks slightly like the Mirror of Twilight.

However, I see a multitude of practical problems with the Gerudo being the ancestors of the Twili. The Twili were unboubtedly sealed long prior to Ocarina of Time, and the Gerudo are shown to be totally intact during the course of that title. The connection between the Twili and Majora's Mask is almost non existant, although for other reasons I think that they may have a slight case for connection, although I wont go into depth unless asked.

The Mask Salesman claims to 'Travel far and wide in search of masks'. This implies that he could have sourced Majora's Mask from anywhere, including Hyrule. However, his shop exists in Hyrule, and he travels far to obtain masks - considering Majora's Mask would be the most exotic of his finds, and that he went to 'Great lengths' to obtain it, I dont think that he sourced it from Hyrule. Termina is the most likely possibility, considering the images of it throughout the Temples of Termina. The supposed representation within Stone Tower is quite debateable, but even accusations such as that tether Majora's Mask to Termina rather than any other location.

Yeah, thats the symbol I was talking about.

If you look at it for a while, you'll notice that the symbol and the mask have similar eyes, well except for the fact that the symbol has no pupils. And the spikes on the bottom of the symbol may be slightly altered, but look very similar to the spikes on Majora's Mask.

And all of those monuments in MM referencing to the mask could've been put there by the skull kid. I mean, he caused so much trouble in Termina, why wouldn't he put proof of him being there.


Also, Lanayru's story in TP refers to a war, but it does not at all mean that this was the Hyrulean Civil War that took place before OoT. There could very well have been a war that was sparked after OoT, perhaps when Link went back to his childhood. I mean, when he went back, Ganondorf still had the Triforce of Power, and could've very well inspired and manipulated his people, and perhaps other races, into a revolt against the Kingdom of Hyrule in an attempt to fully seize the sacred realm.

If you recall:

"Among those living in the light, interlopers who excelled at magic appeared. Weilding powerful sorcery, they attempted to establish dominion over the sacrd realm."
Lanayru, TP

and...

"His name is....Ganondorf. He was the leader of a band of theives who invaded Hyrule in hopes of establishing dominion over the sacred realm."
Sages, TP


They both had the same goal, which leads me to believe that both of the people that are mentioned in these quotes are in fact the same race.
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Last Edited by Link the Titan; 08-09-2009 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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