Are The Twilight Mirror and the Dark Mirror the Same Thing?

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

No she severs the Link between the two worlds. Midna and the others are okay they just can't ever return to Hyrule.

Lex said that the world would be in the mirror itself. If the Mirror of Twilight is sustaining the world/is the world and Midna obliterated it, she'd effectively be destroying her own realm and killing her people, then tossing herself into the void.

The mirror projected a portal to the realm, it wasn't the container for the realm! Does it matter. Point is mirror used to reach other realm for both of them. I say they're the same mirror the similarities are too numerous to ignore!

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

The mirror projected a portal to the realm, it wasn't the container for the realm!

I know that the Mirror of Twilight projects a portal. I was arguing against Lex, who claimed that the Mirror of Twilight could have actually contained the Twili. That's why I pointed out that Midna would be senselessly killing her own people if that were the case.

It could be. Because the twilight M can transport you to the twilight Realm. The dark mirror created Dark Link in FSA, but he may have been a twili, and that could explain it

Shadow Link wasn't a Twili, he was Link's evil half. The Dark Mirror makes evil reflections/copies of things (like the Knights of Hyrule)

I'm thinking the Mirrors are the same (or at least have a common origin), but being in different timelines, they've been used differently and have grown apart in similarity.

Shadow Link wasn't a Twili, he was Link's evil half. The Dark Mirror makes evil reflections/copies of things (like the Knights of Hyrule)

I disagree

Go into Link's...i suppose it's a basement, in TP. There's a mirror down there. Stand in front of the mirror without your lantern lite and his reflection kinds reminds me of Dark Link.

Originally Posted by RZ

I disagree

Are you serious? Or are you just kidding with me? Because I am a gullible person and can't tell. If you are serious, what is your opinion?

This quote is why I said the Dark Mirror does what it does:

Originally Posted by White Maiden/Fairy

The Dark Mirror... Someone's stolen the Dark Mirror!
That mirror reveals the wickedness within a person and brings it to life.
It's an item of terrible, dark power. No good can come from this.
Shadow Link!!
Could he be your evil reflection, cast by the Dark Mirror?

If we don't get the mirror
back, Hyrule will be overrun
with evil Shadow Links.

Shadow Link is Link's evil half, made by the DM. It's because of the Dark Mirror that the Knights of Hyrule were turned into the big Stalfos Knights, too.

The Mirror of Twilight does something like this too (screws with Yeta, creates Armogohma and Argorok).

The difference in all your examples, however, is that the mirror in those cases TAKE OVER THE BODY of an existing thing meaning crazy Yeta and normal Yeta can't be in the same room. Same with the knights- they are transformed. Link is clearly able to exist along with dark Link.

You're being a bit nitpicky. First of all, I was only using the Mirror of Twilight's effects as a "Looky here! Similarities!" sort of thing.

Secondly, I don't see what we're arguing about. The Dark Mirror is clearly shown to be able to corrupt Knights into Stalfos and make Shadow Link in the same game, apparently at the same time. I mean, it's in the game. It can't really be disagreed with, unless I'm missing something important here.

The point is exactly what you say! You have a false analogy.

The big Stalfos Knights are CORRUPTED KNIGHTS. Real world people corrupted.

Dark Link can't be the equivelent of Link because he is not a corrupted Link. Link and he can co-exist, unlike the knights and the skeletons. He is a separate entity from Link entirely.

Ahhhhh...so it's the false analogy you were talking about.

Let me rephrase my words from Post #25:
Shadow Link wasn't a Twili, he was an evil reflection of Link made by the DM. The Dark Mirror makes evil reflections/copies of things and corrupts others things (like the Knights of Hyrule)

Fix'd. Happy?

Originally Posted by Average Gamer

Except that would mean Midna killed all of her people and herself in TP's ending by shattering the mirror, which makes no sense.

So I suppose the solution is thus: the world is not literally contained in the Mirror [as an object]. The Twilight Realm is simply accessed through the Mirror's reflection, rather how Link can return to the Light World by reflecting himself in the Magic Mirror in ALttP (and in that case the game describes the process of warping as "getting sucked in").

The Sages only planned to stab Ganondorf; the Mirror of Twilight was a desperate last resort.

Which explains why he was executed in the Mirror Chamber instead of the numerous torture chambers below...

Due to the fact that it's a heavily guarded fortress in a hostile desert, the Arbiter's Grounds is a great place to hide the Mirror of Twilight. Furthermore, the mirror has its own staircase and harness in the Arbiter's Grounds, suggesting that it was meant to actually be kept there instead of teleported in for Ganondorf's execution. The Mirror of Twilight was still in the Arbiter's Grounds a hundred years after Ganondorf's execution as well. Finally, there's this quote from Auru:

It's quite clear that the Mirror of Twilight was meant to be kept at the Arbiter's Grounds and not just teleported in for one occasion.

The Mirror was kept at the grounds when Ganondorf was executed, and it was left behind there afterwards. But this does not exclude that the Mirror may have been initially sealed away elsewhere (as FSA poses) and later used by the Sages for this purpose only in the Child Timeline (as a different scenario plays out on the Adult).

In any case, we have a similar story and Mirror existing in two games, and a divergent history leading up to those games themselves; doesn't this imply two alternate histories as a product of the split timeline just as much as Ganondorf being executed in the Child line instead of imprisoned in the Sacred Realm as in the Adult?

Isn't it funny that the idea of TP prequeling TWW was discarded when the two games' histories didn't match up, but the idea of TP prequeling FSA isn't discarded even though we encounter the same problem?

Originally Posted by Artemicion

rather how Link can return to the Light World by reflecting himself in the Magic Mirror in ALttP (and in that case the game describes the process of warping as "getting sucked in").

The Japanese text suggests that the statement was just emphasizing how clear the mirror was instead of being literal.

Originally Posted by ALttP Item Description (Zelda Legends Translation)

I received the Magical Mirror!
It's a beautiful clear blue mirror...
I feel like I'll be sucked in.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

Which explains why he was executed in the Mirror Chamber instead of the numerous torture chambers below.

I don't recall the Arbiter's Grounds having any torture chambers so much as puzzle-filled places Link passes through. Ganondorf was also called a big criminal by Auru, and since the Sages reside atop the grounds they would probably want to witness his death.

Also, if the Sages planned for Ganondorf to die from his stab wound, why would they even want to use the Mirror of Twilight after that? They'd just be using the thing as a garbage disposal, which seems utterly disrespectful and uncharacteristic for Sages chosen by the Goddesses.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

The Mirror was kept at the grounds when Ganondorf was executed,

It has its own stand and platform in the grounds Lex. It doesn't look like it was randomly teleported in and there would be no purpose in moving it there if the Sages expected Ganondorf to die from the stab. If they wanted his body gone they could have just cremated it and thrown the ashes to the wind instead of dumping the rotting carcass into another dimension for other people to deal with.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

and it was left behind there afterwards.

Why? If it wasn't supposed to be in the Arbiter's Grounds in the first place and it had no purpose there, why wouldn't they send it back to its original spot during the hundreds of years between the execution and TP?

Originally Posted by Artemicion

In any case, we have a similar story and Mirror existing in two games, and a divergent history leading up to those games themselves; doesn't this imply two alternate histories as a product of the split timeline just as much as Ganondorf being executed in the Child line instead of imprisoned in the Sacred Realm as in the Adult?

Not really, seeing as how all evidence in TP indicates that the Mirror of Twilight was supposed to be kept in the Arbiter's Grounds and the Dark Mirror behaves somewhat differently. Also, the events of TP (at least regarding Ganondorf) appear to have been largely unnoticed by the populace, meaning that FSA and TP can still go on the same timeline and thus not have a divergent history. You also can't actually prove that the mirrors are the same.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

Isn't it funny that the idea of TP prequeling TWW was discarded when the two games' histories didn't match up, but the idea of TP prequeling FSA isn't discarded even though we encounter the same problem?

Lex, you can't actually prove that the mirrors are the same. It can be (and has been) proven that TP and TWW go on different timelines.

Take a look at the ZeldaWiki page for the Twilight Mirror. It has information about the possible connection at the bottom.
http://www.zeldawiki.org/Twilight_Mirror

Originally Posted by Mochiball

Take a look at the ZeldaWiki page for the Twilight Mirror. It has information about the possible connection at the bottom.
http://www.zeldawiki.org/Twilight_Mirror

No offense, but Zelda Wiki isn't very good. Any random fan can contribute their pure opinion to it and the site only uses NoA quotes instead of checking for the more accurate japanese translations from boards like Legends Alliance.

Also, look at this excerpt from the Zelda Wiki link you just posted:

Originally Posted by Zelda Wiki

The Mirror of Twilight, although officially debuting in Twilight Princess, may possibly have appeared in Ocarina of Time as the large round mirror in the Spirit Temple that granted Link access to the chamber of the temple's boss, Twinrova. Considering that mirror's role in Link's quest to rid the temple of Twinrova, its similar appearance and the temple's many similarities to the Arbiter's Grounds, the Mirror of Twilight may very well have appeared even sooner in the series than previously thought.

That's basically fan fiction. Zelda Wiki really isn't reliable.

They're not saying it is the same mirror. They're just making connections. It's no more absurd than us saying the Dark and Twilight Mirrors are the same.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

They're not saying it is the same mirror. They're just making connections.

Originally Posted by Zelda Wiki on Mirror of Twilight

The Mirror of Twilight, although officially debuting in Twilight Princess, may possibly have appeared in Ocarina of Time as the large round mirror in the Spirit Temple that granted Link access to the chamber of the temple's boss, Twinrova. Considering that mirror's role in Link's quest to rid the temple of Twinrova, its similar appearance and the temple's many similarities to the Arbiter's Grounds, the Mirror of Twilight may very well have appeared even sooner in the series than previously thought.

As you can see, Zelda Wiki did try to say that it might be the same mirror. The only reason they have is incredibly flimsy, even more so when you realize that the Spirit Temple was full of standard mirrors that you interacted with.

Well it's not like they're stating that it's 100% true.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Well it's not like they're stating that it's 100% true.

Yes, but I'm pointing out that Zelda Wiki is generally unreliable and that any fan can post any unfounded opinion on there.