"Prolonged" Wars???

I don't think SNES text is canon, I go with GBA

In game text of both is. No storyline diffs worth noting.

Only manuals have big problems.

maybe

Originally Posted by Cukeman

The original seal was made to stop evil from flowing out of the SR
(I speculate it was the interlopers)

But this in no way prevents OoT Ganon's evil from radiating out of the
Temples in OoT! Ganon's evil is free to radiate out of the SR because
Link opened the original seal when he pulled the Master Sword!

i.e. The Master Sword opens & closes the original seal

If that's true, then why doesn't the Seal break in aLttP when Link pulls the Master Sword?

The Sacred Realm seal (of the Seal War) is independent of the Master Sword. Fact.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

If that's true, then why doesn't the Seal break in aLttP when Link pulls the Master Sword?

I have no idea, I think that it's an inconsistency due to
the SR opening & closing being introduced in OoT...
(i.e. originally it just closed - no opening was thought of yet)

Originally Posted by Erimgard

The Sacred Realm seal (of the Seal War) is independent of the Master Sword.

Consider this:

TOPIC 3 - Magic Mirror Clue

In ALttP, the Magic Mirror can take you out of the Dark World even
when the Sages' seal is intact. We also know that you can enter the
Dark World using warp tiles even when the Sages' seal is intact. The
fact that you can get "around" the seal suggests that the seal wasn't
made to keep people out, but to keep evil in...after all no one who
enters the Dark World can leave without the Magic Mirror due to the
Sages' seal...

What kept the people without a Magic Mirror in the Dark World
was the sages' seal on the SR, and the MS is the final key to the SR...

I agree there are inconsistencies, but I'm gonna have to go with the
major themes at play

The's clearly not the original intent of aLttP.
You say it may have changed with the release of OoT, so let's look at that.

If the Master Sword was really meant to be the Seven Sages Seal of the Seal War, then why did they decide to have the Seven Sages cast a seal at the end, with the Master Sword not resting on its pedestal? Doesn't look like OoT meant to imply that the MS was required to uphold the Sages Seal.

So how about Wind Waker? In Wind Waker's backstory, Ganon somehow escapes the Sacred Realm through unknown means...but the Master Sword is still on its pedestal. The Master Sword serves as a key for the Gods seal/Flood Seal, and is called such, but is never stated or even implied to be the Sacred Realm Seal.

I don't see any indication that, since it's obvious non-relation to the Seal in aLttP, it has changed.

I don't claim that the MS was shown in the ALttP backstory, but I think
it was placed soon after as an extra precaution on the seal...you still can't
really have ALttP's backstory as the AT events of OoT because the ALttP
backstory details the original seal, in OoT Ganon is sealed in a second seal
(a seal that occurred after the ToT & MS seal has been in place a long time)

I ask you, if ALttP's backstory is the AT events of OoT, then where does the
pre-existing seal on the SR come from? The seal that seals the SR before OoT...
...
Also you can't really claim that the interloper incident predates OoT, since the
interloper incident & the ALttP backstory both tell us of the 'great battle'...

I really can't see how you explain this...

Originally Posted by Cukeman

Also you can't really claim that the interloper incident predates OoT, since the
interloper incident & the ALttP backstory both tell us of the 'great battle'...

I really can't see how you explain this...

Well, the Deku Tree sprout also speaks of a 'great battle' that precedes OoT by however many years Link has been alive. If you believe Link to be 10 in OoT, like I do, then that would mean the 'great battle' that orphaned Link had to take place about a decade before OoT. It's more than logical to assume, for this reason, that the Interloper war, the unifying war, and the fierce (or hyrulean civil war) are all the same event. During the Fierce War, the tribes of Hyrule fought over the Sacred Realm and its contents, which is exactly what was going on during the Interloper war.

Originally Posted by Link92

Well, the Deku Tree sprout also speaks of a 'great battle' that precedes OoT by however many years Link has been alive. If you believe Link to be 10 in OoT, like I do, then that would mean the 'great battle' that orphaned Link had to take place about a decade before OoT. It's more than logical to assume, for this reason, that the Interloper war, the unifying war, and the fierce (or hyrulean civil war) are all the same event. During the Fierce War, the tribes of Hyrule fought over the Sacred Realm and its contents, which is exactly what was going on during the Interloper war.

Ganondorf is executed in the child line, which would mean he entered the Twilight Realm roughly 10 years after the Interlopers, if you make all the events into the same war. That is just way way too soon. The interlopers have been there a long time, enough that they have a royal linage and family lines. Long enough that they have evolved into different beings than they were when they entered. It doesn't make sense for them to be the same events, the time passed is too short. The interlopers were already long gone and evolved to Twilli when Ganondorf was just barely getting executed. Making the events the same would also mean the interlopers completely ignored everything blocking access to the Sacred Realm, even though the door of time and pendants are legends by the time of OOT and the sacred pendants have been in the possession of the various races for many generations.

Originally Posted by langford

The interlopers have been there a long time, enough that they have a royal linage and family lines. Long enough that they have evolved into different beings than they were when they entered.

No, every cutscene we see of the Twili took place during or a few days before Zant's Invasion of Hyrule. Ganon didn't meet Zant until very shortly before the events of TP, by which time the Interlopers had changed into the Twili.

Originally Posted by langford

The interlopers were already long gone and evolved to Twilli when Ganondorf was just barely getting executed...

Ganondorf was executed hundreds of years before the events of TP, and only a few years after the child ending of OoT, by which time the Interlopers had not yet finished establishing their kingdom. Ganon didn't meet Zant until hundreds of years after his execution, and a few days before the events of TP. We never see the true form of the original interlopers, only the Twili. The earliest point in the timeline where we see the Twilight Realm's kingdom is right after Zant has been denied the throne, and meets Ganon immediately after. Zant then took over the Twilight Realm very quickly and went to Hyrule very soon after.

Originally Posted by Link92

No, every cutscene we see of the Twili took place during or a few days before Zant's Invasion of Hyrule. Ganon didn't meet Zant until very shortly before the events of TP, by which time the Interlopers had changed into the Twili.
Ganondorf was executed hundreds of years before the events of TP, and only a few years after the child ending of OoT, by which time the Interlopers had not yet finished establishing their kingdom. Ganon didn't meet Zant until hundreds of years after his execution, and a few days before the events of TP. We never see the true form of the original interlopers, only the Twili. The earliest point in the timeline where we see the Twilight Realm's kingdom is right after Zant has been denied the throne, and meets Ganon immediately after. Zant then took over the Twilight Realm very quickly and went to Hyrule very soon after.

I just said it was a long time before TP and that it was at OOT's ending. Why would you think they had not established their kingdom when they had been there such a long time? There were no recently eradicated races in OOT, and nothing of the cut scenes in TP indicated that the Twilli had been so short in advance of Ganondorf. Unless you are combining theories into this about the missing Gerudo tribe into this, there is no way for it to be so recent. There is no reason to combine the events, and they make no sense combined. The interlopers would have had no way into the sacred realm without the pendants, which had been way out of reach for many generations before the events of OOT.

Prolonged/Fierce Wars -- Unification War -- OoT/MM -- TP

Originally Posted by langford

Why would you think they had not established their kingdom when they had been there such a long time?

Because, by the time of Ganondorf's execution, there is no evidence to suggest that they have been there for very long, just as there is no evidence that they had already become the Twili. It's all speculation on your part.

Originally Posted by langford

There were no recently eradicated races in OOT,

The Shiekah. I don't believe them to be Twili, but they were almost completely eradicated by the time of OoT.

Also, how do you know there were no recently eradicated races? We don't see these races because they were recently eradicated. It's impossible to say there were no recently eradicated races, because we have no way of knowing that. That's because they were recently eradicated.

Originally Posted by langford

And nothing of the cut scenes in TP indicated that the Twilli had been so short in advance of Ganondorf.

Correct. Just as nothing of the cutcenes in TP indicated that the Twili had already been there for a long period of time. We never see them until after Zant's attack on the Twili Royal Family.

Originally Posted by langford

Unless you are combining theories into this about the missing Gerudo tribe into this

I'm not combining anything about the Gerudos into this. I don't believe for a second that the Gerudo are in any way related to the Twili. The only clue is the altered Gerudo symbol on Zant's cloak, which was there even before he met Ganon. That's it.

Originally Posted by langford

there is no way for it to be so recent. There is no reason to combine the events, and they make no sense combined.

Both events were wars fought over the Triforce by the tribes of Hyrule after word of the Sacred Realm started to spread. The backstories are similar enough that you can almost ignore the very little detail that the spiritual stones were in the families for generations. The developers likely didn't think that they would have to include the pendants as a story element for TP's backstory, so that inconsistency can be somewhat handwaved by saying "they just didn't care."

Originally Posted by langford

The interlopers would have had no way into the sacred realm without the pendants, which had been way out of reach for many generations before the events of OOT.

So what? They didn't succeed in getting into the Sacred Realm anyway. They were stopped by the Light Spirits. Lanayru simply tells us that they hoped to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. The pendants are irrelevant in this sense. Sure, they wouldn't have gotten into the Sacred Realm without the pendants, but that hardly matters, because they didn't get into the Sacred Realm anyway.

I don't think there is any mention of the Triforce when being told about the Unification War.

Originally Posted by Link92

Well, the Deku Tree sprout also speaks of a 'great battle' that precedes OoT by however many years Link has been alive. If you believe Link to be 10 in OoT, like I do, then that would mean the 'great battle' that orphaned Link had to take place about a decade before OoT. It's more than logical to assume, for this reason, that the Interloper war, the unifying war, and the fierce (or hyrulean civil war) are all the same event. During the Fierce War, the tribes of Hyrule fought over the Sacred Realm and its contents, which is exactly what was going on during the Interloper war.

I only meant that the ALttP backstory and the interloper war ought to
occur at the same time, because they are both about the 'great battle' this
is why I think the ALttP backstory is before OoT, and not the AT events

Originally Posted by langford

...The interlopers have been there a long time...Long enough that they have evolved into different beings than they were when they entered...

Has this ever been confirmed? While it makes sense that they might adapt
to the Twilight Realm, what reason do we have to think that they didn't
look like that originally?

Originally Posted by Cukeman

Has this ever been confirmed? While it makes sense that they might adapt
to the Twilight Realm, what reason do we have to think that they didn't
look like that originally?

How they look is immaterial. They evolved such that they needed their environment to live. It's absurd to think that Ganondorf got there roughly 10 years later and watched them evolve from nearly the start, and very unlikely to think that they evolved in just the 10 years prior to his arrival. We see in the cut scenes of TP that they took up arms inside the Sacred Realm, which had been sealed away for many generations before OOT's events.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYyh8zi3aI

Also, there may be reason to think they were connected to the Oocca, who are very different than the environment in which they live appears to be designed for.

but how do we know they evolved at all? what's the evidence?
or is it just speculation you are forcing me to accept?

Midna tells us in the game about it. The Twili changed and were unable to go back into the light where they had lived before. Whether it happened fast by magic or slow by nature, it happened.

that's better, thanks, now I have to look up the quote

EDIT: Did you ever notice how Zant & Midna don't look anything
like the Twili you help to regain their shapes after they were shadow beasts?
...makes me wonder if the can shape-shift as soon as they go from the
Twilight Realm to the Light World...