The Gerudo and the Twili. Any connection?

Some people have noticed that the Twili and the Gerudo share some physical traits. However, I'm not here to discuss why Midna has red hair, because that does not mean anything. I would, however, like to discuss the Gerudo symbol.



The above symbol has been used by the pirates in Majora's Mask as well as being featured on the Mirror Shield in Ocarina of Time: Master Quest, and was also on Ganondorf's cape in Twilight Princess. Ganondorf also wears a variation of it on his sash in The Wind Waker. It has also been seen on many minions of Ganondorf. What's strange is that it was present on Zant's cloak, even in the cutscene where we see Zant before he even met Ganon, so he obviously does not wear this symbol because of his allegiance to Ganondorf. Here is a picture of Zant, with the Gerudo emblem on his robes, albeit slightly altered.



Now, because Zant is a Twili, it is unknown why he wears this emblem, even before meeting Ganon, although it is also likely that the developers never really cared about this detail and left the symbol there so they wouldn't have to design a new cloak for Zant in the backstory cutscene, so it could still simply show his allegiance to Ganondorf, and by extension, the Gerudo. Notice how Veran and Onox also wear this symbol and are loyal to Ganon and Twinrova, who are both Gerudo.




Veran, who greatly resembles Midna, and may be a Twili for this reason, wears the Gerudo symbol on both shoulder blades, whereas Onox wears the symbol on his chest. This obviously means they are loyal to Ganon and Twinrova, but why does Zant wear the symbol as well, even before meeting Ganon? Developer laziness? Recycled ideas? Or a connection between the Twili and the Gerudo? Discuss.

Both come from the dessert.

Originally Posted by smallville boy

Both come from the dessert.

That is... quote? or anything at all?

This has been brought up before and I don't consider it so. At the end of Twilight Princess Ganondorf clearly differentiates himself from the Twilli, so I don't believe they are decended from the Gerudo.

The symbol on Zant's robes, whilst similar, is not the same. Ganondorf wears the symbol on his cape in Twilight Princess, where it is clearly the the same symbol we've seen before. On Zant's robes, however, an effort is made to show it is distinct from the Gerudo symbol.

twilli = zuna

gerudo and twilli are different races.

Originally Posted by smallville boy

twilli = zuna

gerudo and twilli are different races.

The Gerudo all disseapred after Ganondorf's execution, Gerudo Desert, which was Link through Gerudo Valley, was severe from Hyrule, and Arbiter's Grounds appears to be standing where Gerudo's Fortress was.

...I reckon they were all executedfor aiding Ganondorf, explaining why Gerudo Desert was disconnected from Hyrule and their fortress was destroyed and turned into an execution ground. Besides, how would the Gerudo surive when their desert has been severed from Hyrule? No food, water, no life support...

I think you can actually see the Spirit Temple in the back from the Mirror Chamber if you use the hawkeye; you might notice the front of the Spirit Temple in the distant desert, I hear. If only I could play Twilight Princess, but I can't now. >_>

This is what I think about the whole thing. The Twili weren't of one specific race, but a group of, for lack of a better term, political rebels. They didn't want to join the King of Hyrule during the unifying wars, so instead formed their own group of dark magic wielders and tried to use the fused shadows to dominate the Sacred Realm. Of this group, I think there were some Gerudo members, thus explaining the altered Gerudo symbol. Maybe the distortion of the symbol was meant to symbolize how the Gerudo members of the Dark interlopers had been changed by the Twilight Realm.

Of course, my other theory is that the Dark Interlopers were totally unrelated to any other race. If you look at the red portion of Zant's cloak, there seems to be another layer of the red clothing underneath the portion with the Gerudo symbol. Maybe the underlayer had a different symbol, but the newer layer holds the Gerudo symbol to show his allegiance to Ganondorf and the Gerudo. I believe this theory slightly more, but this means the developers were simply too lazy to design another symbol for Zant's flashback scene.

Speculation warning:

Many have concluded that FSA's Dark Mirror = TP's Mirror of Twilight
because both sealed away a 'dark tribe', but lately I have been thinking
TP is best put before FSA, and in that case the mirrors are not likely
to be the same, considering what Midna does to the Mirror of Twilight.

That's all a lot of background, but the thing I was wondering is, what
about Agahnim? He mentions the 'tribe of evil', is it possible that
the Dark Mirror sealed away the tribe Agahnim is referring to, rather
than the interlopers?

It's also found in MM in the Pirates Fortress. Maybe some Gerudo escaped to Termina?

On topic, though, I like to think the Twili were a mix of Gerudo and Sheikah rebels, but all we can do right now is speculate.

Originally Posted by smallville boy

twilli = zuna

gerudo and twilli are different races.

Unfortunatly, there's next to no information on the Zuna to substantiate that claim, but I agree that The Twilli and Gerudo are not the same tribe.

It should also be noted that this symbol is a part of Ocarina of Time's canon, since it was present in the Gamecube re-release, as well as later cartidges of Ocarina. The original Gerudo symbol featured in the first editions of Ocarina was replaced after complaints were made that it resembled the the symbol for Islam.

Maybe Nintendo puts this stuff in the games to cause fans a lot of stress trying to figure out answers. lol.

Originally Posted by Tulcaryar

It's also found in MM in the Pirates Fortress. Maybe some Gerudo escaped to Termina?

On topic, though, I like to think the Twili were a mix of Gerudo and Sheikah rebels, but all we can do right now is speculate.

The Twili couldn't be a mix of Gerudo and Sheikah becuase in Ocarina of Time all of the Sheikah were dead except for Impa but then she became a sage so there were officially no more sheikah.

Many have concluded that FSA's Dark Mirror = TP's Mirror of Twilight
because both sealed away a 'dark tribe', but lately I have been thinking
TP is best put before FSA, and in that case the mirrors are not likely
to be the same, considering what Midna does to the Mirror of Twilight.

Or they're different timelines.

Originally Posted by SacredRelmGuard

The Twili couldn't be a mix of Gerudo and Sheikah becuase in Ocarina of Time all of the Sheikah were dead except for Impa but then she became a sage so there were officially no more sheikah.

In Twilight Princess, Impaz and Fanadi are both Shiekah. We know Impaz is Shiekah for obvious reasons. She has red eyes, is named after Impa, and posesses a Shiekah Statue. Fanadi, the fortune-teller, has red eyes and the full Shiekah symbol on her forehead. Also, Renado's daughter, Luda, has the Shiekah symbol on the back of her clothing, but from what I could see, neither Renado nor Luda have red eyes.

I don't really know what to believe about the Twili - Gerudo connection, if there even is one. I'm more inclined to believe that the Gerudo symbol on Zant's cloak before meeting Ganondorf is simply a result of developer laziness because they didn't want to go through the trouble of changing his clothes.

Originally Posted by Tulcaryar

It's also found in MM in the Pirates Fortress. Maybe some Gerudo escaped to Termina?

I don't think so. It only exists in one location. On a piece of card, within a shelf in Aveil's room of the pirates fortress. It is worth mentioning that this is probably one of the first places the new, changed symbol was actually used. I think it is a cameo, and nothing more.

^Link92, I deeply doubt that Fanadi is a Sheikah. She is a streetside fortune teller, and deals in mysticism and such. The usage of the symbol is probably for unwitting, decrotive reasons. Besides, her connection is never implied.

Originally Posted by Hyperactivity

^Link92, I deeply doubt that Fanadi is a Sheikah. She is a streetside fortune teller, and deals in mysticism and such. The usage of the symbol is probably for unwitting, decrotive reasons. Besides, her connection is never implied.

Her Japanese name is Impalse, which is obviously based on Impa. I don't see why she would have the symbol if she wasn't a Sheikah.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

Her Japanese name is Impalse, which is obviously based on Impa. I don't see why she would have the symbol if she wasn't a Sheikah.

One thing is for certain - she does not behave like a Sheikah in a cultural sense. All known personally, previously, have had connection with the royal family of Hyrule, or in the case of Impaz, the Occa. Sheik also told many stories about the Triforce, and claimed that the 'legend of the Termples' was a Sheikah legend. Perhaps Fanadi does have some possible Sheikah ancestry, but that would be it. Culturally, she is not a Sheikah. And her use of that symbol is questionable, as I have described.

Originally Posted by Hyperactivity

And her use of that symbol is questionable, as I have described.

The developers give us a character with red eyes, supposed use of "magic," and a blatant Shiekah symbol on her forehead, and that means nothing? We have no reason to doubt that she is a Shiekah, with blatant evidence claiming that she is.

Originally Posted by Link92

The developers give us a character with red eyes, supposed use of "magic," and a blatant Shiekah symbol on her forehead, and that means nothing? We have no reason to doubt that she is a Shiekah, with blatant evidence claiming that she is.

I have already explained my reasons for doubt, and you are free to reply to and acknowledge them. Besides, whatever she is, I doubt she is privy or important in any way to anything important regarding the Sheikah. She is clearly a peddlar of cheap tricks.

My personal belief is: the majority of the Gerudo tribe (amongst other races) were the "sorcerers" that were banished into the Twilight Realm. The fact that Arbiters Grounds exists in the desert and was a prison...that's enough personal evidence to believe the Gerudos had something to do with the Twilight Realm. And Midna's Gerudo appearance doesn't exactly make me think lesser of this theory.

Originally Posted by SacredRelmGuard

The Twili couldn't be a mix of Gerudo and Sheikah becuase in Ocarina of Time all of the Sheikah were dead except for Impa but then she became a sage so there were officially no more sheikah.

That we know of. There could have been rogue Sheikah. After all, they exist in latter games.

Originally Posted by Link92

In Twilight Princess, Impaz and Fanadi are both Shiekah. We know Impaz is Shiekah for obvious reasons. She has red eyes, is named after Impa, and posesses a Shiekah Statue. Fanadi, the fortune-teller, has red eyes and the full Shiekah symbol on her forehead. Also, Renado's daughter, Luda, has the Shiekah symbol on the back of her clothing, but from what I could see, neither Renado nor Luda have red eyes.

Do Sheikah have to have red eyes? I know the majority of them do, but perhaps it's possible they don't. Is there actually evidence out there that says Sheikah have red eyes? If that is the case, perhaps Renado and Luda are only a fraction Sheikah. They both seemed very protective, which from Impa and Impaz's demeanor, kind of makes me think it's more than likely possible Renado and Luda are at least partial Sheikah.

Originally Posted by Hyperactivity

^Link92, I deeply doubt that Fanadi is a Sheikah. She is a streetside fortune teller, and deals in mysticism and such. The usage of the symbol is probably for unwitting, decrotive reasons. Besides, her connection is never implied.

One thing is for certain - she does not behave like a Sheikah in a cultural sense. All known personally, previously, have had connection with the royal family of Hyrule, or in the case of Impaz, the Occa. Sheik also told many stories about the Triforce, and claimed that the 'legend of the Termples' was a Sheikah legend. Perhaps Fanadi does have some possible Sheikah ancestry, but that would be it. Culturally, she is not a Sheikah. And her use of that symbol is questionable, as I have described.

Ethnically, I believe she is a Sheikah. Most Sheikah are very protective and mild-mannered, I've noticed...but that doesn't mean they all have to have these traits. That's kind of like saying all Californians surf; it may be a popular thing on the coast, but not everyone is like that.

Originally Posted by romanomnomnom

Ethnically, I believe she is a Sheikah. Most Sheikah are very protective and mild-mannered, I've noticed...but that doesn't mean they all have to have these traits. That's kind of like saying all Californians surf; it may be a popular thing on the coast, but not everyone is like that.

That is a valid point, but it doesn't counter Fanadi's absolute lack of practical elements we would associate with the Sheikah, apart from a symbol and possible ancestry. If she is, surely she is an example of how traditions can be forgotten. Being in the business of mysticism and such, I doubt that the symbol makes her any more important. Wether or not she has Ancestry is quite a moot question.