Cukeman's Revised Timeline

Game Titles in Bold
Game Quotes in Red
Speculation in Italic

When characters in Zelda games die, their spirits leave
the Light World and/or the Sacred Realm for what I call
"the next world" for lack of a better term...unless they have
unfinished business. The Silver Arrows can banish lingering
spirits from the Light World/Sacred Realm, sending them
into the next world.

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Here is my timeline:

TMC...OoT...TWW/PH
_______OoT/MM...TP...FS/FSA...ALttP/LA...OoA/OoS...TLoZ/TAoL

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The Child Timeline:

1) The goddesses Din, Nayru, and Farore create the Light World,
the Triforce, and the Sacred Realm.

2)"For ages, the people lived at ease, content in mind and body..." -TP

3)"But soon, word of the Sacred Realm spread through Hyrule, and a great
battle ensued..." -TP

4)"Among those living in the light, interlopers who excelled at
magic appeared. Wielding powerful sorcery, they tried to establish dominion
over the Sacred Realm." -TP

5)"Many sought to enter the hidden Golden Land...But none returned, and instead
evil power began to issue forth from the dark portal...So the king commanded seven
sages to seal the gate to the land of the Golden Power. Many brave knights were lost
in the battle to protect the sages from the tides of evil, but the seal was cast! Evil
flowed no more! And the seal would remain for all time...Or so the people hoped..."
-GBA ALttP

6) The Minish Cap

7) Four Swords backstory

8) Ocarina of Time
Link is marked by his time-travel as the destined holder of the Triforce
of Courage.

9) Link talks to the King of Hyrule; Link's Triforce of Courage proves
his time-travel story, and Link's Kokiri's Emerald proves his story about
Ganondorf cursing the Kokiri, Goron, and Zora tribes.

10) Link, Zelda and the King of Hyrule keep the Door of Time shut. In
retaliation, Ganondorf tears apart the Temple of Time, but cannot enter
the Sacred Realm due to the Master Sword.

11) Due to this outrageous action, the King of Hyrule orders the execution
of Ganondorf. During the execution, it is discovered that Ganondorf holds
the Triforce of Power. After he eliminates a Sage, Ganondorf is sealed in
the Twilight Realm.

12) The Temple of Time ruins are hidden in the Sacred Grove. Years later,
by the time of Four Swords Adventures the knowledge of the location of the
entrance to the Sacred Realm (the Temple of Time ruins) is lost. "...the
Golden Land. Only a select few were told of its location, but at
some point that knowledge was lost..." -GBA ALttP

13) Twilight Princess
Before Ganondorf died, his last words were: "Do not think this ends here...
The history of light and shadow will be written in blood!" -TP

14) Four Swords

15) TP Ganondorf's lingering spirit is reborn as the new "guardian of
the Gerudo and the desert" -FSA

16) Four Swords Adventures
Ganon tore open many portals to the Dark World, but he never found
the Triforce because he wasn't looking for it. The knowledge of the
entrance to the Sacred Realm had been lost, and with it the knowledge
of the Triforce.

17) After being sealed in the "Realm of the Four Sword" (-FSA manual)
Ganon uses his Trident of Power to go into the Dark World with the
Four Sword. The dimensional shift weakens the Four Sword seal sufficiently
so that Ganon escapes from the Realm of the Four Sword into the Dark
World. While in the Dark World for many years, Ganon discovers the
Triforce and wishes to "rule the entire cosmos" -GBA ALttP "
The one who rediscovered the Golden Land was an evil thief
named Ganondorf. Luckily, he couldn't figure out how to return
to the Light World..." -GBA ALttP

18) A Link to the Past
Agahnim kidnaps maidens descended from the Sages in order to break
the seal that was cast on the Sacred Realm before the Temple of Time
was built (see 5). "A mysterious wizard known as Agahnim
appeared as from nowhere...and with strange magic powers
he eliminated the good king of Hyrule...He cast spells on the
soldiers and kidnapped young maidens descended from the
sages in order to break the seal..." -GBA ALttP
Link thwarts this attempt, and uses Silver Arrows to
banish Ganon out of the Light World/Sacred Realm, and into the next world.

19) Oracle of Ages & Oracle of Seasons
Link travels to the lands of Holodrum and Labrynna at the behest of the
Triforce to save the Oracles Din and Nayru. Twinrova calls forth the spirit
of Ganon from the next world, and he uses their dead body as a vessel to
regain his beastly form. Link destroys Ganon's new body, but with no Silver
Arrows, Ganon's spirit is left to linger until it finds a new host.

20) The Legend of Zelda
Ganon steals the Triforce of Power when his dark army attacks Hyrule,
but Zelda scatters the Triforce of Wisdom across Hyrule in eight fragments.
Link collects all the fragments, and re-fuses them into the Triforce of Wisdom,
he then uses Silver Arrows to destroy Ganon's body, and banish his spirit back into
the next world.

21) The Adventure of Link
Ganon's minions seek to slay Link in order to revive Ganon. Link sets out
to retrieve the Triforce of Courage from the Great Palace to awaken Zelda.

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Related notes:

When Impa dies at the hands of Bongo Bongo in OoT, the Impa
family does not make it into the Adult Timeline.

WW Link inherited the shield handed down in his family, from
when it was given to his ancestor by Zelda in The Minish Cap.

Although Link wears a Kokiri tunic, none of the Kokiri wear the
style of cap that Link does.

EDIT:

OoT Link's mom left him the cap.

In Zelda II, Link uses the crystals that had held the maidens in ALttP.

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I won't argue about my italicized speculations unless you can
directly contradict them with quote evidence (and if I have already
debated that topic with you, there is no need to repeat the process
a second time)

In OoX linked game, Ganon's resurrection isn't done correctly. They fail to sacrifice Zelda, and in doing so Ganon was brought back as a mindless monster. He doesn't recognize Link at all and has minimal (as far as i remember) dialogue. I don't think he was the regular Ganon, just a lump of uncontrollable power with a shred of intelligence.

Cukeman i fail to see how you revised that at all!

If the Sages' seal is the Master Sword's seal on the Sacred Realm, wouldn't Link withdrawing the sword in TP and/or ALttP break the seal?

Originally Posted by Artemicion

If the Sages' seal is the Master Sword's seal on the Sacred Realm, wouldn't Link withdrawing the sword in TP and/or ALttP break the seal?

Yes

In TP no one seems to be interested in the SR because knowledge about it
was scarce after the ToT moved to the Sacred Grove, plus the Triforce is not
in the SR, it is in the hands of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, so it's just an empty
place...who would care about it?

In ALttP Agahnim opened the portal between the SR and Hyrule Castle
soon after Link withdrew the MS (maybe this is why the maidens did not
have to be killed in the Dark World and survived?)

Originally Posted by Aura Pulse

...I don't think he was the regular Ganon, just a lump of uncontrollable power with a shred of intelligence.

the regular Ganon? as opposed to what? remember that OoX Ganon had
no Triforce parts at his command...

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Cukeman i fail to see how you revised that at all!

-I removed the part about OoT Zelda having a sleeping spell cast on her, and the
part about her having a brother.

-I no longer state that the monsters (sealed away by the hero of men) were due to the interlopers,
I still think this is probably the case, but not stating it opens up room for interpretation

-In my last thread I thought the Temple of Time was seen at the end of FSA, so I was going
to move FSA, then after a thread on the subject it no longer seemed likely to be the
Temple of Time, so I didn't change FSA's placement after all

-I clarified my position on the Silver Arrows

EDIT:

- I explained why Ganon didn't find the Triforce in FSA in more detail

EDIT2:

- I added the 'related notes' section (as possible supplemental evidence)

Originally Posted by Cukeman

the regular Ganon? as opposed to what? remember that OoX Ganon had
no Triforce parts at his command...

What I meant by this is that he wasn't "whole" as the Ganon who was killed before it, and definitely less than the Gerudo he once was (a long time?) ago. This was due to the failed resurrection by Twinrova. Also, the fact that he has no Triforce, AND that he is "less" than himself in terms of intelligence and form, allowed him to be killed (fully) by Link in OoX regardless of what Link used to defeat him. I believe he was a regular monster.

Originally Posted by Cukeman

In ALttP Agahnim opened the portal between the SR and Hyrule Castle
soon after Link withdrew the MS (maybe this is why the maidens did not
have to be killed in the Dark World and survived?)

Alas, it is not until Zelda is sacrificed to the Dark World that the seal dissolves, according to ALttP.

Originally Posted by Aura Pulse

What I meant by this is that he wasn't "whole" as the Ganon who was killed before it, and definitely less than the Gerudo he once was (a long time?) ago. This was due to the failed resurrection by Twinrova. Also, the fact that he has no Triforce, AND that he is "less" than himself in terms of intelligence and form, allowed him to be killed (fully) by Link in OoX regardless of what Link used to defeat him. I believe he was a regular monster.

eh, your speculation vs. mine...

Personally, I don't think OoX Ganon was onscreen long
enough to determine anything about his character in
reference to the timeline other than his appearance

but assuming he is less intelligent as you propose, I would
attribute this to the half-baked resurrection more than
anything else, in other words something along the lines
of his spirit not being fully channeled into his body, i.e.
that his spirit and body weren't fully in synch with each
other

I do think his spirit was fully revived though, (just not his body)
and that the Silver Arrows are the only thing that can banish
him from the Light World and/or Sacred Realm, which would
explain how Ganon can return, and why only the Silver Arrows
can bring about his "ultimate defeat"

Originally Posted by Artemicion

Alas, it is not until Zelda is sacrificed to the Dark World that the seal dissolves, according to ALttP.

According to this quote, when Zelda was sent to the Dark World,
the seal was only partially dissolved:

"...This world was once the Golden Land where the
Triforce was hidden. But because Ganon, the leader
of the thieves, wished it, this world was transformed...
I'm sure he's intending to conquer even our Light World
after building his power here. His hope is to use us
maidens and the power of the sages that has been
passed on to us as the key to open a larger gate
between the worlds near Hyrule Castle. But the gate
is not completely open yet...There is still time."
-maiden, GBA ALttP

Note that this quote is AFTER the portal to the Dark World
at Hyrule Castle has been opened, a "larger" portal is needed.
(The portal was opened when Zelda was sent to the Dark World,
and this quote is from a maiden Link rescues in the Dark World)

When i saw TMC in the beginning, I just think "poor boy". Then i saw the child timeline with lots of games and the adult with only 2.
Cukeman, instead of post your "revised timeline", what about search in this forum for a while?

Originally Posted by -Seven

When i saw TMC in the beginning, I just think "poor boy". Then i saw the child timeline with lots of games and the adult with only 2.
Cukeman, instead of post your "revised timeline", what about search in this forum for a while?

That's not nice. I have read many timelines, I know everyone puts
lots of games on the AT, particularly the NES games.

However, I back up all my points with evidence, (which I do see
differently than many ZU theorists) I think that while the Adult
Timeline majority made sense several years ago, I have identified
a trend in the newer releases indicating TP...FSA...ALttP that I
believe trumps the old theory of the AT majority. And I always
supply quotes to support why I think what I think.

As for TMC, that one is always odd to place, so I don't blame
anyone for where they put it. For a long time I would have NEVER
placed it on the front of my timeline. It is only recently that I have
changed my mind

I'm not a noob, I just support a less popular timeline

TP's geography doesn't match any other games. Considering it retcons OOT and is now technically the true map of Hyrule can't we place all the other games that do have geographic connections on the AT?

Cukeman, why do you have ALTTP being placed before the original LoZ and Zelda 2? Didn't Miyamoto say, even as of 2003, that the order was LoZ -- AoL -- ALTTP?

Superplay: So that's why the third game looked like the first one?
Shigeru Miyamoto: Exactly. We actually see A link to the Past as the real sequel to Legend of Zelda. Zelda II was more of a side story about what happened to Link after the events in Legend of Zelda.

Originally Posted by Link92

Cukeman, why do you have ALTTP being placed before the original LoZ and Zelda 2? Didn't Miyamoto say, even as of 2003, that the order was LoZ -- AoL -- ALTTP?

does that quote necessarily mean that it's the next tale in the chronology or that it's the next game to be released in the main overarching story, with no verbal indication of placement??

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

TP's geography doesn't match any other games. Considering it retcons OOT and is now technically the true map of Hyrule can't we place all the other games that do have geographic connections on the AT?

do you read my posts at all?

seriously, TP is the most recent game, so anything it changes about OoT changes every other game based on OoT or any other game OoT was based on. That means that LoZ, LttP, OoT, FSA, and tMC were all retconned by TP if they all fall on the CT.

EDIT: ... double post.

@ ALttP before LoZ/AoL

-The back of the ALttP box says that it predates LoZ/AoL
(ALttP Link and Zelda are the predecessors of LoZ/AoL Link & Zelda)
-Also I don't see the Impa family on the AT (personal theory)
-Also I see the Oracles coming after ALttP and explaining Ganon's return
-Also there may be a link between the crystals in ALttP & AoL
-Also I thought LoZ had some artwork in which Ganon holds a trident
-and I just plain don't see a "new Hyrule"

Originally Posted by Slagr

does that quote necessarily mean that it's the next tale in the chronology or that it's the next game to be released in the main overarching story, with no verbal indication of placement??

He said the timeline was OoT-LoZ/AoL-ALttP with LA being able to go anywhere after OoT. But that was as of 1998, not 2003.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

He said the timeline was OoT-LoZ/AoL-ALttP with LA being able to go anywhere after OoT. But that was as of 1998, not 2003.

I meant in the context of the interview, whenever that was.

Originally Posted by Slagr

I meant in the context of the interview, whenever that was.

Source: http://zeldalegends.net/index.php?n=...np-miya&m=html

He meant chronology.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

Source: http://zeldalegends.net/index.php?n=...np-miya&m=html

He meant chronology.

that's not the same interview as the one in question, which was from 2003. the question itself was apparently not intended as a timeline thing, as the follow up question was specifically about the timeline and Aonuma dodged the question.

So I'd take that as "order of release" sequel, not chronological story.