Revised Timeline theory

Okay i've finally seen the light! I now realize the problems with all my theories. Therefore i'm changing my timeline from:
........WW/PH-LOZ/AOL-OOX-MC-FS/FSA-ALTTP/LA
....../
OOT
......\
........MM-TP

To:
.......WW/PH-MC-FS/FSA-LOZ/AOL
....../
OOT
......\
........MM-TP-OOX-ALTTP/LA

Anybody have any objections?

That timeline is awsome.

Good gracious! Potent Col and now you?

I'm convincing everyone to my timeline without even trying :s

Oh well, don't accept everything I say Oni just because I'm on here so much and thus constantly argue (I am currently awaiting a job this summer... when I get one I'm likely to be on here far less..) listen to others' arguments too, Pinecove has an awesome timeline too (though it does have some questions, but then all of them do really) so make SURE you want to agree with me before you do!

I just had to finally except that many of the things with my timeline where just illogical, the evidence that it was wrong just became to overwhelming for me to ignore.

Why TP-OoX?
Explain the Seal War.

Erimgard, whenever that argument is made for CT timelines, all I ask is 'explain the Great Flood'.

No other backstory has been given a game yet, so why should we assume that aLttP's alone has?

Especially when it has become commonplace for people to consider AT OoT does not fulfil what is said and the concepts of aLttP's retranslation, FSA's original intentions all support it.

I decided that Zora was probably right about the seal war never being shown. I was just too stubborn to admit i was wrong.

Edit: saw your post Zora, that's the same arguement that convinced me Erimgard. OOX could come after ALTTP but i really don't care, it has little significance to the timeline.

I don't personally like your FSS placement. Everything that seemingly places tMC on the AT can be thoroughly disproven or discredited, and FSA's plot is fairly obviously the near-immediate BS for LttP. I suppose I can't complain too much, since the primary games (OoT,WW,TP,LttP) are placed on their proper respective sides.

What evidence for MC being first can't be disproven? FSA's plot is something i used to take into account but the more i think about it the more i realize FSA's connections to ALTTP were intentionally severed.

Originally Posted by River Zora

Erimgard, whenever that argument is made for CT timelines, all I ask is 'explain the Great Flood'.

Uh, it rained a whole ****ing lot?
What is there to explain?

No other backstory has been given a game yet, so why should we assume that aLttP's alone has?

I didn't say to give it a game.
I said to explain how it happened.

Especially when it has become commonplace for people to consider AT OoT does not fulfil what is said and the concepts of aLttP's retranslation, FSA's original intentions all support it.

Funny how you think you're intereprtation of a quote overrules Shigeru Miyamoto and all of his game designers who claim that aLttP was specifically designed as the Seal War.

And you avoided my OoX question.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

What evidence for MC being first can't be disproven? FSA's plot is something i used to take into account but the more i think about it the more i realize FSA's connections to ALTTP were intentionally severed.

there is no evidence directly either way. The only thing that we can really discuss is AT or CT FSS which forces tMC first or post-WW. Since you consider LttP CT now, I'll focus on linking FSA and LttP.

Regardless of the fact that FSA's plot was rewritten late in the game's development, there are many connections to LttP still remaining. The Ganon of LttP has his origin shown in FSA, along with the Trident, Thieve's Town, "Master Sword ahead!" sign, seven maidens/sage descendants, identical castles, and sufficiently similar geography all link the two games. FSA as LoZ's BS is accurate only in the fact that pig Ganon exists.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Uh, it rained a whole ****ing lot?
What is there to explain?

how can all the elements of OoT's story be remembered hundreds of years after they had already been completely forgotten, and in a different place far across the sea?

Funny how you think your intereprtation of a quote overrules Shigeru Miyamoto and all of his game designers who claim that aLttP was specifically designed as the Seal War.

say no to drunk posting. Even though OoT was originally the SW, there are plenty of reasons why it can't and shouldn't be anymore. See above for the first of these reasons.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Uh, it rained a whole ****ing lot?
What is there to explain?
I didn't say to give it a game.
I said to explain how it happened.
Funny how you think you're intereprtation of a quote overrules Shigeru Miyamoto and all of his game designers who claim that aLttP was specifically designed as the Seal War.
And you avoided my OoX question.

I know you weren't talking to me but i'll respond anyway.
What he means is why should ALTTP have the honor of being the only game to have another game actually show their backstory.
It could have happened any which way, you don't have a game for how ganon broke the seal in WW yet it happened anyway.
I believe you mean FSA was designed as the SW and we have a quote retconning that.
OOX could go anywhere, but since TP ganon is known as Daimaou and Twinrova tries to resurrect him it would probably occur after TP.

The SW to me I think by current intention is likely to be the interloper war or perhaps another war between the games.

The view that AT OoT no longer equates to the SW is the very last of my old views for me to abandon, but I explained my theoretical grief on the issue in this old thread of mine:
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...-iw-dazed.html

So that's my explanation for that.

As for the OoX pre-aLttP, I put it there to give a method both to how aLttP Link and Zelda meet (in game dialogue suggests they know each other in aLttP) and how Ganon could have returned through the botched resurrection as well as giving an accessible and complete Triforce to be touched by the evil king.

It's only there out of preference for not liking plotholes and avoiding them wherever possible, but it could easily be placed afterwards with a new Link and Zelda if preffered. Nothing much to suggest either way.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

What he means is why should ALTTP have the honor of being the only game to have another game actually show their backstory.

I'm not saying there needs to be a game explaining the Seal War. There doesn't. I'm just asking how the Seal War would work on your timeline. In between what games does it come? How does it get set up? Etc.

It could have happened any which way, you don't have a game for how ganon broke the seal in WW yet it happened anyway.

How many times do I have to say it doesn't have to be a game, just a plausible explanation?

I believe you mean FSA was designed as the SW and we have a quote retconning that.

No, I mean OoT was designed as the Seal War, and I have two quotes to prove it.

OOX could go anywhere, but since TP ganon is known as Daimaou and Twinrova tries to resurrect him it would probably occur after TP.

He's titled Daimaou in OoT, WW, and LoZ too. Big whoop. Why TP?
How does the Triforce get from the end of TP to the start of OoX?

Originally Posted by River Zora

As for the OoX pre-aLttP, I put it there to give a method both to how aLttP Link and Zelda meet (in game dialogue suggests they know each other in aLttP)

I don't know if the dialogue necessarily suggest familiarity; it seems just as likely to be friendlyness.

and how Ganon could have returned through the botched resurrection as well as giving an accessible and complete Triforce to be touched by the evil king.

but OoX's TF is not in the SR and neither is Ganon.

It's only there out of preference for not liking plotholes and avoiding them wherever possible, but it could easily be placed afterwards with a new Link and Zelda if preffered. Nothing much to suggest either way.

it could also be after AoL for the same and possibly more reasons.

Originally Posted by River Zora

The SW to me I think by current intention is likely to be the interloper war or perhaps another war between the games.

How does the interloper war serve as the Seal War?

As for the OoX pre-aLttP, I put it there to give a method both to how aLttP Link and Zelda meet (in game dialogue suggests they know each other in aLttP) and how Ganon could have returned through the botched resurrection as well as giving an accessible and complete Triforce to be touched by the evil king.

The dialouge suggests they don't know each other. Zelda introduces herself.

And the "the botched ressurection" doesn't explain how Ganon comes back...because he dies in OoX's ending.
The Triforce is in Hyrule Castle in OoX's ending, and it has to have been in the Sacred Realm for "hundreds of years" prior to aLttP.

Also, explain TP-OoX

That didn't address any of my last post so I assume you were typing the same time and haven't see it yet, so I'll address your post as well as alerting to my post above

TP seems to be the only game to end with the Triforce being completed and not in the hands of the Hero. It disappearing from Ganon's clutches mirrors its recombining in tWW and it's understood it returns to the SR in that game.

In OoX it is on a similar plinth to aLttP's, and it also appears to be accessed by a large castle hidden in an overgrown dense forest around it echoing the Temple of Time from TP and aLttP's grove. I know in the manual it refers to Link travelling to the castle, but this nature of such a secluded building to be THE Hyrule castle seems odd and I put it down to in-game evidence trumping manual text.

As such Link travelling to this building in a forest to meet with the Triforce existing complete without a holder both links with the end of TP and provides the access for Ganon to enter this place and achieve it in aLttP.

It's interpretation brought on by my extreme hatred of plotholes, but it's still valid I feel.

EDIT: i see you've now addressed my previous points while typing this

Originally Posted by River Zora

TP seems to be the only game to end with the Triforce being completed and not in the hands of the Hero. It disappearing from Ganon's clutches mirrors its recombining in tWW and it's understood it returns to the SR in that game.

So you think the Triforce got completed at the end of TP?

In OoX it is on a similar plinth to aLttP's, and it also appears to be accessed by a large castle hidden in an overgrown dense forest around it echoing the Temple of Time from TP and aLttP's grove. I know in the manual it refers to Link travelling to the castle, but this nature of such a secluded building to be THE Hyrule castle seems odd and I put it down to in-game evidence trumping manual text.

There is no in-game evidence. Just your biased interpretation. It's explicitly called Hyrule Castle. It's location is irrelevant. The King can build a castle wherever he wants, and to assume it is not Hyrule castle is just ignorance.

As such Link travelling to this building in a forest to meet with the Triforce existing complete without a holder both links with the end of TP and provides the access for Ganon to enter this place and achieve it in aLttP.

The Triforce was in the Sacred/Dark Realm for "hundreds of years" prior to aLttP.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

How does the interloper war serve as the Seal War?

There isn't a war over the Sacred Realm every week, now is there? Since the only games that reference a war over the SR are TP and LttP, and TP makes it clear that this war preceded OoT, then there's no likely way another war occurred on the AT during or after OoT. The discrepancies (sages vs spirits making the seal and Ganondorf's involvement) are accounted for by TP and FSA. Seven humanoid Sages seal Ganon in TP, though not in the SR, but legends are known to combine over time, as seen by Arthurian legends and the like.

TP BS+TP+FSA has all the elements of the SW while OoT has only a few and an unlikely means of being remembered by AT LttP.

There is no bias in interpretation- I have nothing to be biased about! I have no reason to WANT this place to be the Temple of Time, it is just when looking at its location, its nature and relate it to every past incarnation of the castle- right in the centre of the kingdom- it seems incredulously anomalous.

I quote to you the same quotation I posted on another thread assuring Zelda DID NOT introduce herself to Link (in either version of the in game text from aLttP) outside of the vision which Link's uncle is implied to have had aswell due to him rushing off, so was presumably a general vision to every knight left loyal:

Thank you, Link. I had a
feeling you were getting close.
Link, listen carefully. All
the soldiers in the castle have
fallen under the wizard's spell.
And I fear even worse has
befallen my father... That
wizard is an inhuman fiend!
His powers are strong...
... ... ...
Do you understand?

No introduction or anything, calls him by name and she knew exactly who she was calling for help- implies she'd been helped by him before.

And yes, I do think the Triforce returned to the Sacred Realm at the end of TP. It clearly leaves Ganon's body and when this has happened in the past it either reforms with other pieces in the viscinity shortly before returning, or remains in his remains ready to be picked up by another. Seeing as we see it leave him before his death it equates more to tWW than LoZ's defeat.

EDIT:

My post in its own thread about Ganon's involvement with the seal war.
This is a topic which I thought I would never be one to suggest.

I consider myself a purist on the theorising side of things. I clung onto single-link for as long as I could until the descendents line in OoT. I clung onto single timeline all the way until TP was released and a good deal after ignoring Aonuma's statements. But I always come round to new theories if I think there's enough logic in them, hell, I even abandoned the OoT AT=Imprisoning War which I never thought I would. I've learned to be far from stubborn in my theories...

But this is something else...

I recently read through a comparison of aLttP text from GBA and SNES as well as their manuals.

I do think these revised translations and interpretations are the currently canon version as is logical.

And it has struck me that the game seems desperately trying to separate the events of A) The Seal War and B) Ganon's entry to the Sacred Realm.

The way Ganon is spoken of in the new text implies that he came along well after the seal was cast and most peoples' knowledge of the Triforce had vanished into legend; that he was one trying to break an existing seal. The Swamp Maiden in both versions claimed that the knowledge of the realm was lost and Ganon was the one who rediscovered it and worked out a way to enter but 'luckily' wasn't able to find his way out. This again implies that Ganon's entry was long after the seal to prevent dark power was placed.

I can't quite bring myself to separate the events in my head. To me it will always seem like it is one story that Ganon instigated the war, but it really does seem like that notion is being dispelled. It could even be perfectly believed that the story of the Interlopers refers to the new description of the war and that Ganon's attempt at the SR could have happened very soon before the whole Agahnim fiasco in aLttP within the game's own backstory, perhaps the effects of Ganon reaching the Triforce being limited to the problems Agahnim stopped in order to gain the trust of the king.

The purist in me really doesn't want to believe this, but the logician that also shone away from single timeline, OoT=IW, FSA=IW, single Link and so many others wants me to reconsider. It's not timeline affecting for me, so it's not even as if it pivots myorder, but it's still something I'd like to be discussed...