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  #21 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-10-2009, 10:57 PM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: Canon items

Watch this video: it is when Ganondorf transforms. The magic he is emitting form his hand is exactly that same as the Twilight Magic in the areas of Hyrule that are covered by Twilight (the little black squares).

Ganon - Dark Beast battle
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  #22 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-10-2009, 11:01 PM
Cukeman Cukeman is a male United States Cukeman is offline
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Re: Canon items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral View Post
Watch this video: it is when Ganondorf transforms. The magic he is emitting form his hand is exactly that same as the Twilight Magic in the areas of Hyrule that are covered by Twilight (the little black squares).

Ganon - Dark Beast battle
I don't think that's proof at all. Ganon & Zant have transformed all the Twili
in the Twilight Realm to be shadow beasts, and the little black squares could
be a sign of the corruption of the Twilight

Are there any scenes before Zant meets Ganon that show black squares in
the Twilight Realm?
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  #23 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-10-2009, 11:12 PM
River Zora River Zora is a male United Kingdom River Zora is offline
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Re: Canon items

The black squares seem to show him just teleporting, much in the way Midna and Link do. The squares are how he gets from one side of the room to the other. He teleports as a human. It is only once the squares are all gone that he begins to transform in complete darkness implying his own magic.
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  #24 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-10-2009, 11:18 PM
Cukeman Cukeman is a male United States Cukeman is offline
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Re: Canon items

Quote:
Originally Posted by River Zora View Post
The black squares seem to show him just teleporting, much in the way Midna and Link do. The squares are how he gets from one side of the room to the other. He teleports as a human. It is only once the squares are all gone that he begins to transform in complete darkness implying his own magic.
That really got me thinking, two-dimensional objects (like flat squares)
that have no depth are a lot like a parallel for the realms:

One side is the Light World (Hyrule), the other side is the Sacred Realm
and when the square is perpendicular to the viewer it is not visible at all,
much like how the Twilight Realm is neither here nor there
(Neither Light World or SR)

In short it sounds like how one 'dimension' can be hidden from the one we
exist in. (Did anyone see the Star Trek where the Enterprise cannot fly
through space because it is blocked by 2-dimensional objects perpendicular
to their flight path?)

NOTE: This is not a game theory merely visual-design symbolism
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  #25 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-10-2009, 11:58 PM
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Re: Canon items

Then why does Beast Ganon use Twili portals to warp around the arena? I have no doubt that he has used Twilight Magic to transform. Furthermore, that form of Ganon bears little resemblance to the original Blue Pig Form.
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  #26 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-11-2009, 12:27 AM
Cukeman Cukeman is a male United States Cukeman is offline
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Re: Canon items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral View Post
Then why does Beast Ganon use Twili portals to warp around the arena? I have no doubt that he has used Twilight Magic to transform. Furthermore, that form of Ganon bears little resemblance to the original Blue Pig Form.
River Zora just suggested that ONLY the teleportation uses the
black squares, and that the rest is ToP magic

further, you have yet to establish a strong connection between Twili magic
and the black squares
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  #27 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-11-2009, 01:42 AM
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Re: Canon items

The black squares are quite literally everywhere when ever you are in an area of Hyrule covered by the Twilight Curtain (and the Twilight Realm). Furthermore, Zant and Midna both teleport by "becoming" these small squares.

Examples:


The Twilight Curtain.


Midna and Link Teleporting (note Link must be in his Twilight Wolf form).
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My new timeline:

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YOU CAN'T FALSE IT
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  #28 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-11-2009, 09:05 AM
River Zora River Zora is a male United Kingdom River Zora is offline
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Re: Canon items

I agree the little squares are Twilight. I disagree once more Ganon uses them after teleporting away, wounded, from Puppet Zelda.

I think the portals merely show that he is teleporting through the Twilight Realm. Ganon's teleporting in the past appears to he him popping through his relative Makai and back out another side (except aLttP where he is in the Makai to begin with) and TP merely mirror this by him teleporting through the Twilight using HIS OWN magic. Zant used Ganon's magic, yet because it was in Twilight it came out as squares.
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  #29 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-11-2009, 11:09 AM
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Re: Canon items

Quote:
Originally Posted by River Zora View Post
Viral, he is not revived with it.
But he IS able to use it upon his revival.

You're right that the trident never got a story until FSA - but neither did the Triforce until ALttP.

Also,

Quote:
If they couldn't make Ganon in TP the Blue Pig because he hadn't been "spawned/created" yet, then how is he present in OoX, right after TP?
THIS.
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  #30 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-11-2009, 06:14 PM
Cukeman Cukeman is a male United States Cukeman is offline
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Re: Canon items

Okay, so the squares are Twilight, but that doesn't mean they
have anything to do with the Fused Shadow (the Twili Magic)

The "Twili Magic" is the fused shadow, and that was in Hyrule
ever since the Twili were banished to the Twilight Realm, Midna
is the ONLY one who used it since then.

What makes you think that either Ganon or Zant uses ANY Twili Magic?
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  #31 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-11-2009, 10:49 PM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: Canon items

The Fused Shadow is not the only source of Twili Magic. Midna uses quite a lot of magic before acquiring the complete Fused Shadow.....

Zant even talks about the sorcery that the Twili use when talking about his "new" power.
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YOU CAN'T FALSE IT
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  #32 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-13-2009, 11:45 PM
Cukeman Cukeman is a male United States Cukeman is offline
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Re: Canon items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral View Post
The Fused Shadow is not the only source of Twili Magic. Midna uses quite a lot of magic before acquiring the complete Fused Shadow.....
The first time Link meets Midna she already has the first piece of
the Fused Shadow (Link only collects 3 pieces)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral View Post
Zant even talks about the sorcery that the Twili use when talking about his "new" power.
Zant is contrasting the old power to the power of Ganon which he uses.

What else ya got?
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  #33 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-14-2009, 02:01 AM
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Re: Canon items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cukeman View Post
The first time Link meets Midna she already has the first piece of
the Fused Shadow (Link only collects 3 pieces)
It is heavily implied that the Fused Shadow is powerless until is is fully complete. Furthermore, We see Zant using Twili magic with NO Fused Shadow pieces (in cut scenes and while fighting him).

Quote:
Zant is contrasting the old power to the power of Ganon which he uses.
But the magic still exists, and was used. Even though Zant thinks Ganon's power is great, the point still remains that the Twili use (or used) magic.

Those Twilight Squares are quite literally the atmosphere in the Twilight Realm. Go play TP again if you still have doubts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimgard View Post
My new timeline:

ST-ZW-CDi games

YOU CAN'T FALSE IT
Last Edited by Viral; 07-14-2009 at 02:08 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-14-2009, 07:44 PM
Cukeman Cukeman is a male United States Cukeman is offline
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Re: Canon items

There is no evidence Zant ever uses any magic than that of Ganon.

I reconsidered my position on the squares. I think they are the twilight
dimension. I also think that when they appear is just when someone is
teleporting to a new place in Hyrule THROUGH the Twilight Realm
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  #35 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 07-14-2009, 07:49 PM
Cukeman Cukeman is a male United States Cukeman is offline
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Re: Canon items

in short, the squares are the twilight REALM, not the Twili Magic

As for what Midna uses, there is not enough evidence to theorize upon,
but I still say Zant and Ganon never use anything but the ToP for the
events shown in the game
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