Teach me your ways.

So, I'm new to the whole Zelda Theorizing scene, but as a huge Zelda fan and lover of the story, I find it very fun and very interesting. However, being as inexperienced as I am, I don't know near as much as some of you, I'm sure.

So what am I asking you to do? Here is my current timeline:

--------------- -->TWW --> PH --> FS --> FSA --> ALttP --> LA
-----------------/
TMC --> OoT
-----------------\
--------------- -->MM --> TP --> LoZ --> AoL -->OoX

What I want you to do is tell me why I'm wrong (or right). I may debate what you tell me, and if I do so it is not an attempt to avoid learning new information, but a device to help me more fully understand the ideas that have been presented.

The goal of this whole thing to is to help me have a greater understanding of the timeline and theorizing in general, not to be a brick wall in which you pound your head into. As such, I will try to keep an open mind and I ask anyone reading this topic to do the same. Let's keep this a nice, friendly, open discussion.

That's actually not bad for a first timeline. I've seen way worse.

The only things that are stand out are OoX being in separate timelines and the majority of the games being in the CT (which could be possible).

The OoX can't be in separate timelines because people from Holodrum know people in Lybranna and vice-versa.

As for the majority of the games being in the CT, if you can find a way for the Seal War to work in the CT then more power to ya, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument for it.

I also don't think TMC comes first, but it's just as possible as going anywhere else.

Hahaha that's the timeline I heavily lean towards (by heavily lean towards I mean that's the one I think is the most likely developer intended timeline... without the timeline merging, of course.)

As for the majority of the games being in the CT, if you can find a way for the Seal War to work in the CT then more power to ya, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument for it.

I've yet to hear a logical argument to why and how OoT is still the SW after TWW came out.

You don't need a convincing argument to prove that the SW works on the CT, you need to look at your argument logically and see that it clearly goes against the intent for the game and throws away every important implication in the game (they aren't even implications, really. It's about as clear as it gets for some things). But I digress. I'm not gonna debate this here. I just wish that people here would read things for themselves and decide for themselves from an unbiased point of view if it makes sense. Because I know the moment I stopped taking everything Lex said word-for-word for why OoT is the SW and I stepped back and looked at it, I saw how ridiculous the arguments really were.

Originally Posted by Som

I've yet to hear a logical argument to why and how OoT is still the SW after TWW came out.

I've yet to hear a logical argument to why and how TWW ruins OoT being the SW.

For the millionth time: The SW never directly connected to ALttP.

OoT=Seal War
FSA=Explanation about how a new Ganon got trapped in the seal from OoT.

It's not that complicated.

the only thing wrong with your timeline is that you have the oracle games taking place on seperate timelines. As for the rest, don't worry about. noone knows what the real timeline is, so your timeline is just as correct as everyone elses. as long as you can build a good argument as to why your timeline makes sense and then deffend that argument, yo'll be fine

I've yet to hear a logical argument to why and how TWW ruins OoT being the SW.

For the millionth time: The SW never directly connected to ALttP.

OoT=Seal War
FSA=Explanation about how a new Ganon got trapped in the seal from OoT.

It's not that complicated.

I really don't want to debate this. But the GBA manual doesn't retcon anything. The games still make it damn clear that the Ganon from the SW is the Ganon from LttP. It always connected directly to LttP. Here's a question for you. From the beginning of LttP what does this quote clearly talk about?

Long ago, surrounded by mountains and forests,
the beauteous land of Hyrule...

FSA doesn't explain anything at all. Actually I'd say it screws it up even worse.

Ganon in the SW touches the Triforce. The Dark World that the Triforce talks about was created when the current Ganon touches the Triforce. The Dark World was sealed by the Seven Sages. Ganon is the current controller of the Triforce and killing him reverses his wish.

Huh I guess half of those are referring to completely different Ganons without giving any implication of such, amirite?

It's not an implication because it's completely obvious what it's referring to.

Can we please NOT get into a SW debate when we're talking about this guys timeline?

I don't want to give infractions *points to mod banner above name*

Can we please NOT get into a SW debate when we're talking about this guys timeline?

I said I didn't want to debate it, but he said it was logical. Which it isn't.

I don't want to give infractions *points to mod banner above name*

I think I'm missing something here...

I said I didn't want to debate it, but he said it was logical. Which it isn't.

It is to an extent, depending on weather you believe in the Miyamotto quote or how ALttP phrases thigs.

I think I'm missing something here...

It's showing above my name...maybe I'm supposed to be the first to see it?

It is to an extent, depending on weather you believe in the Miyamotto quote or how ALttP phrases thigs.

An 11 year old Miyamoto quote. And there's another 11 year old Miyamoto quote that says that the SW Ganon is the same as the LttP Ganon.

It's showing above my name...maybe I'm supposed to be the first to see it?

I'm confused... are you saying you're a mod now, or something?

An 11 year old Miyamoto quote. And there's another 11 year old Miyamoto quote that says that the SW Ganon is the same as the LttP Ganon.

We should do another podcast debate on this!

Show me.

I'm confused... are you saying you're a mod now, or something?

Um...yeah that would be it.
Edit: Now that hombre is veiwing this joke's over, I'm not a mod.

Referring to OoT:

Originally Posted by Miyamoto

During the time when Link is an adult, conditions are intensified. Ganon, from the Super NES game, is a human form before he transforms into a monster. Ganon's elements change during the adult, since he changes into a monster.

He doesn't say they're the same Ganon. All he's saying is that ALttP Ganon was Human which we know already.

It's talking about how things change between the Child and Adult parts of OoT and then talks about how SNES Ganon was human and OoT Ganon was human and turns into a monster. How is that NOT supposed to be referring to the same Ganon? This is ignoring the obvious intention of the quote. If he wasn't talking about them being the same Ganon then why mention it?

Maybe they are the same then. Ganon is unexplained in either LoZ or ALttP with the original asking order so it was probobly the same person/man back then.

I see your guys point about the OoX games. I'm changing them to go with the rest of the 2D games.

However, I'm still not completely convinced as to why they should all go in the AT. Maybe it's just the fact that I hate the idea of deflooding (and sort of finding a new Hyrule, too), but I'm not seeing how the SW debate makes it impossible for the 2D games to be in the CT.

I, personally, don't believe that the Sealing War actually IS OoT. Obviously, that's what it was initially (from interviews and such that I read, it seems OoT was designed to describe the events of the SW), however, things change over time (as we've seen with the whole idea of a timeline in the first place).

I personally believe the SW to be what is described in TP: That is, the Sages try to kill Ganondorf and fail, and so they send him to the Twilight Realm. I assume that this takes place because Link and Zelda tell the king about his plans, a war breaks out, and Ganon is "sealed" in the Twilight Realm. This makes it possible for the 2D games to take place in the CT.

Originally Posted by Raen

However, I'm still not completely convinced as to why they should all go in the AT. Maybe it's just the fact that I hate the idea of deflooding (and sort of finding a new Hyrule, too), but I'm not seeing how the SW debate makes it impossible for the 2D games to be in the CT.

I don't think anyone here goes by the deflooding theory. We go by the Deku Tree's quote about connecting the islands.

Originally Posted by Raen

I personally believe the SW to be what is described in TP: That is, the Sages try to kill Ganondorf and fail, and so they send him to the Twilight Realm. I assume that this takes place because Link and Zelda tell the king about his plans, a war breaks out, and Ganon is "sealed" in the Twilight Realm. This makes it possible for the 2D games to take place in the CT.

The Seal War involves a seal being cast on the Sacred Realm, though.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

I don't think anyone here goes by the deflooding theory. We go by the Deku Tree's quote about connecting the islands.



The Seal War involves a seal being cast on the Sacred Realm, though.

I like to hope that Link and Tetra took the KoRLs advice seriously and create a new land, not called Hyrule, and that Hyrule doesn't resurface, per se (under that name). I do recognize the possibility, however, so I do see how games could be placed in the AT. Placing the 2D games in the AT does seem to clear up a lot of problems.

I'm still interested in seeing if I can find a satisfactory reason for the 2D games being in the CT, however. I'm going to go through game scripts and see what I can learn. I'm not as knowledgeable about the SW as I should be.

Another question: I'm curious as to peoples ideas about the placement of Minish Cap. I've never heard particularly in depth explanations as to why it wouldn't be the first game (of course, this is due to my inexperience, I'm sure there are plenty explanations out there).

EDIT: Ok, so I just went and looked back at all the mentions of the seal in ALttP. It seems to me that it leaves quite a lot of wiggle room and only very loosly describes the events of OoT. More specifically, it never mentions Ganon at all. It only says that they sealed the Sacred Realm because "darkness" perpetuated from there. This is is something of a stretch, but it's possible that the SW took place in an attempt to stop Ganon from touching the triforce, and it's possible that it took place in the Sacred Realm, and that it was sealed after the elimination of Ganon's forces and the sending of Ganon to the Twilight Realm, in order to keep people out permanently.

^The seal quote itself doesn't say everything, but using the Triforce's quotes and the maidens quotes the implication is clear. And using the SNES manual it's about as fact as it can get.

Oh and TotG... you never answered my question...

Originally Posted by Som

Oh and TotG... you never answered my question...

I thought we weren't turning this into a SW debate.

Originally Posted by Som

It's talking about how things change between the Child and Adult parts of OoT and then talks about how SNES Ganon was human and OoT Ganon was human and turns into a monster. How is that NOT supposed to be referring to the same Ganon? This is ignoring the obvious intention of the quote. If he wasn't talking about them being the same Ganon then why mention it?

They obviously didn't have the concept of two Ganons thought up when making ALttP.