The Races of Wind Waker

Originally Posted by Kingconnor

Zora - Rito (Laruto's [a Sage] descendant was a Rito)

In the original Japanese text, "descendant" is said as a "successor to the role" and not at all related physically

Originally Posted by keyaki

anyway, I'm not a fan of the Zora->Rito theory either ( its like a fish evolving into a bird, scales turning into feathers)

But it does seem to make a bit of sense

It's no longer a theory, Aonuma confirmed it:

Originally Posted by Aonuma

We created the Rito as the evolved form of the Zora that appeared in "Ocarina of Time" and the Korogs as what the Kokiri became once they left the forest. They appear different, but they have inherited their blood.

Originally Posted by keyaki

as for the Gorons, I believe that the most are probably gone, though the fact that the one in TP can breath underwater is surprising, but for a race like that, I doubt they can last under water for long

There on Goron Island in the PH region of the Great Sea.

One thing many people fail to do when theorizing is look beyond the game and into its mechanics itself.

Just because the Zora are not in WW, does not mean they no longer exist or have evolved into the Rito for some bizarre reason.

1- Medli is not the descendant of Laruto by blood but by role according to the original Japanese

2- An aquatic race that can thrive in both fresh and salt water would not have any reason to evolve when the world floods into a sea that is only metaphorically devoid of fish but very clearly has life. Especially evolving into a bird-like race. Infact the Zora are the least likely race to evolve and the Gorons most likely (who are still around)

3- The Zora worship Jabu Jabu, aka Jabun, who resides on Greatfish Isle. They would not abandon him and move somewhere with extreme heat they are too weak to survive in and worship someone else. They would also not change from a monarchy to a cheiftainship (?)

4- There are two dungeons cut out from Windwaker, one of them is very likely the one for the third pearl which is associated with Jabun...

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

It's no longer a theory, Aonuma confirmed it:

...

It's official. The Zelda team is out of their minds.

Where is that quote from, exactly?

Originally Posted by Aleph

...

It's official. The Zelda team is out of their minds.

Where is that quote from, exactly?

Don't know exactly where it was found, but it was translated here: http://forums.legendsalliance.com/in...3&#entry444763

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

Just because the Zora are not in WW, does not mean they no longer exist or have evolved into the Rito for some bizarre reason.

No, but the fact that Aonuma said they did does.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

Don't know exactly where it was found, but it was translated here: http://forums.legendsalliance.com/in...3&#entry444763



No, but the fact that Aonuma said they did does.

Personally I find your source questionable

Either way, I'm sure that if its right, they didn't think that idea through as it has alot of flaws.
Their best plan of action is to retcon that specific bit of info and just say that the Zora were the ones on Greatfish. It would also allow them to put both Rito and Zora in the same game

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

Personally I find your source questionable

...*facepalm* That's where we get all our translations from.

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

Either way, I'm sure that if its right, they didn't think that idea through as it has alot of flaws.
Their best plan of action is to retcon that specific bit of info and just say that the Zora were the ones on Greatfish. It would also allow them to put both Rito and Zora in the same game

It doesn't matter what you think. The creators said Zora evolved into Rito, so they did.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

...*facepalm* That's where we get all our translations from.

1- Never heard of the site before
2- Who is "we"?
3- Getting all your stuff from there doesn't make it reliable

It doesn't matter what you think. The creators said Zora evolved into Rito, so they did.

Didn't you read what I said? The devs made flaws before and making the Rito evolve from Zora makes next to no sense so a good idea would be to ret-con that specific thing so it makes sense

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

1- Never heard of the site before

Doesn't make it unreliable

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

2- Who is "we"?

Every respectable theorist on ZU and ZI

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

3- Getting all your stuff from there doesn't make it reliable

It's the same people who translate everything. They've never been wrong before, so there's no reason to think they are just because your butthurt over being proven wrong.

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

Didn't you read what I said? The devs made flaws before and making the Rito evolve from Zora makes next to no sense so a good idea would be to ret-con that specific thing so it makes sense

Did you hear what I said? What the developers say goes. What you think does or doesn't make sense has no bearing on the series because it's their series, not yours.

No wheres does it say the Zora went extinct. They just seemed to diversify perhaps. Some evolved into Rito while others did not. As for Zora not being in Wind Waker, it was a rushed game & I think Nintendo thought it would be better for a whole new species for the Gamecube.

Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods

Doesn't make it unreliable

I never implied it did, I merely said I never heard of it, not everyone has

Every respectable theorist on ZU and ZI

Pretty elitist response that was.

It's the same people who translate everything. They've never been wrong before, so there's no reason to think they are just because your butthurt over being proven wrong.

I'm not being butthurt over anything, if anyone is, its the one who is being a dick just because someone said something they don't agree with

Did you hear what I said? What the developers say goes. What you think does or doesn't make sense has no bearing on the series because it's their series, not yours.

If you'd read what I am saying it would help

1- Regardless of what the developers say, the Zora evolving into Rito makes little sense for many reasons previously stated. It does not matter if it was the developer who said it as that doesn't mean it suddenly makes sense

2- Its a smal part of the series that can be retconned into something that actually does make sense

I know what I say has no impact on the actual series, if you read what I was posting you would know I know that and what I am saying is not trying to make an impact

Seriously though, no need to be a jerk over this. All I did was regard your source with some suspicion and you then start talking down your nose at me

Pretty elitist response that was.

I wouldn't call that elitest. What he means is "We're tired of these constant no-name newbs spamming up our forum and calling all of our pieces of evidence, and their sources, questionable because they haven't been around here long enough."

To be fair, though, there are some (semi)good theorists on ZD who use the translations.

1- Regardless of what the developers say, the Zora evolving into Rito makes little sense for many reasons previously stated. It does not matter if it was the developer who said it as that doesn't mean it suddenly makes sense

Oooooh you started this response off bad. "Regardless of what the developers say" wrong. Even if it may have problems there is NO REASON to assume that it will be retconned because of those problems. The timelie is a cluster**** of problems. Will the developers retcon those away just because we think they will? Maybe a few. But only the big really, really, bad ones, and they may not even fix those (SW, FSA, Ganon in LttP, they may be retconning the screwing over of everything that happened with the flood with ST. But they may not even fix anything.)

What we know right now is that the zora turned into the Rito. That's the only confirmed origin of the Rito, it's the only plausible one (it may have problems. I've yet to read this entire thread so I don't know what "problems" you were listing for it), it's developer confirmed. Nothing that I know of has come along to discredit it (since Rito haven't appeared since TWW and that quote came out after TWW...). That means it is undeniable fact like the Split Timeline.

Originally Posted by Sign-of-Madness

I wouldn't call that elitest. What he means is "We're tired of these constant no-name newbs spamming up our forum and calling all of our pieces of evidence, and their sources, questionable because they haven't been around here long enough."

There was no spamming at all and when I see yet another fan forum used as a source for evidence then naturally it is questionable until I know more.
Considering his reply to me and you saying what you are sick of "no name newbs" just because I use reasonable scepticism then I would definitely call that elitism.

Oooooh you started this response off bad. "Regardless of what the developers say" wrong. Even if it may have problems there is NO REASON to assume that it will be retconned because of those problems.

I never did, I said that doing so would fix the problems yet never made out that it will be fixed

What we know right now is that the zora turned into the Rito. That's the only confirmed origin of the Rito, it's the only plausible one (it may have problems. I've yet to read this entire thread so I don't know what "problems" you were listing for it)

Look back a few posts for it. As for the most plausible origin of the Rito ignoring what the devs say, the most likely origin was they were always there, just not included until now

, it's developer confirmed. Nothing that I know of has come along to discredit it (since Rito haven't appeared since TWW and that quote came out after TWW...). That means it is undeniable fact like the Split Timeline.

And all I was saying that being confirmed by the developers does not mean it still can't make sense. There are many holes in the Rito=Zora evolution that the developers missed

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

Medli is not the descendant of Laruto by blood but by role according to the original Japanese

Medli is not explicitly said to be of Laruto's bloodline in the Japanese, but that doesn't rule it out. Now we know why the English said that (and moreover why it said the Rito had "evolved" prior to TWW)- to reflect the underlying reality.

An aquatic race that can thrive in both fresh and salt water would not have any reason to evolve when the world floods into a sea that is only metaphorically devoid of fish but very clearly has life. Especially evolving into a bird-like race. Infact the Zora are the least likely race to evolve and the Gorons most likely (who are still around)

I find it highly unlikely that the Zoras would continue to inhabit the highly-hostile environment of the Great Sea. There might certainly be a safe zone of the ocean somewhere, but to escape the monsters they could just as well move onto land- which now we have confirmed.

your other two points are speculation, really.

this is the same place that gave us the Japanese translations that brought the Zora-Rito connection into question in the first place, so I doubt they'd purposely contradict their own original translation with fake material

Originally Posted by Artemicion

Medli is not explicitly said to be of Laruto's bloodline in the Japanese, but that doesn't rule it out. Now we know why the English said that (and moreover why it said the Rito had "evolved" prior to TWW)- to reflect the underlying reality.



I find it highly unlikely that the Zoras would continue to inhabit the highly-hostile environment of the Great Sea. There might certainly be a safe zone of the ocean somewhere, but to escape the monsters they could just as well move onto land- which now we have confirmed.

your other two points are speculation, really.

this is the same place that gave us the Japanese translations that brought the Zora-Rito connection into question in the first place, so I doubt they'd purposely contradict their own original translation with fake material

In order for those monsters to survive there needs to be a food chain where at some point, there is the kind of food that the Zora need.
That and the Hylians can't live in the water yet they stayed the same. The Zora did not need to give up their aquatic abilites at all as having them would grant them more freedom and thus more likely to survive.
They can live on land and in the water so they are fine there.

Originally Posted by Aleitheo

In order for those monsters to survive there needs to be a food chain where at some point, there is the kind of food that the Zora need.

Or the Zoras themselves. I'm sure they're tasty.

That and the Hylians can't live in the water yet they stayed the same.

That's probably because they live on land, and still do in TWW. Again, most of the monsters seem to either live in the oceans, the temples, or the Forbidden Woods, with other monsters (those on Dragon Roost, etc.) appearing only recently. Notice how we get hints of the inhabitants of these monster-ridden places either vacating (the Zora and Kokiri) or getting wiped out (the Master Sword Sage ancestors).

The Zora did not need to give up their aquatic abilites at all as having them would grant them more freedom and thus more likely to survive.
They can live on land and in the water so they are fine there.

They can live on land, so land would be preferable to the monster-infested ocean. But I can see this isn't getting anywhere.

I'm new to Zelda universe, so I might not know much about Zelda, but I thought when I played the game that it was very weird for the Zora to evolve into the Rito, but it had to happen in order for everything to happen properly. It doesn't need to be scientific to work in Zelda, because it's just an imaginary world.

You're all missing the obvious reason the gods transformed the Zoras into the Rito-

Hyrule was hidden beneath the waves and the gods intended none but perhaps the chosen hero to be able to access it. Having a bunch of Zoras eager to explore their new gigantic home would surely just invite them to explore the hidden Hyrule beneath and cause the goddesses' hiding it to be pointless.

The Zora weren't transformed to protect them from monsters, but to protect Hyrule from them.

I'm pretty sure there are still Zoras around. Some did evolve into Ritos, this is confirmed, but I know it's nuts to think a race such as the Zoras would evolve into bird-like creatures rather than simply adapting to salt water. But Rito are a great race, I think Wind Waker should've included both..

To poster above: yeah thats true too... still I would like to believe theres still Zoras around in other 'dimensions' surrounding Hyrule.

I kinda figured that if there were Zora, they may have been at Greatfish Isle before it was demolished and their patron deity scurried away.