LA Retranslations list

Thanks a ton, Impossible.

Oh and this thread = awesome.

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

Hey Impossible.

I was wondering for this specific translation here, if that fourth line was the Japanese or American manual comparison.

Wasn't sure what Jumbie said.

He explained this in the paragraph above the translation, when I pointed out how oddly similar (and yet just different enough) the intro and manual were in the US version. In Japanese, there's only a single set of lines for that story: it's the same in-game and in the manual. So that orange one is the US manual.

Originally Posted by LOZ Historian

I can't help that there won't be links to a specific brackets of translations because there are so many.

This is true, and in fact, I have just edited the first post to a) Put the quotes in chronological order! and b) add in a couple of missing ones I found. I wasn't very prolific about this earlier in the topic, so if you see any I missed, please let me know.

My next idea might be to bold the "required reading" quotes, just because, as LoZH rightfully pointed out, there are so many and it's such a big topic. Certain translations MUST be read by people before they start commenting on the significance of those scenes (or entire games sometimes) in discussions. I'd like to point those out.

When the ZI translation guide is done, it will, in all likelihood, be much more useful than my patchwork solution. But, as others previously found before LoZH, putting those translations together intact is a pain in the goddamn ass, so this list will have to do for now. The sooner people read these, they better. There's no reason for me to keep this list to myself when I've had it for months. >_> It was just useful whenever I wanted to check something, and people here clearly need it.

And don't underestimate the value of the posts and comments on the translations. Not ALL the useful translation notes/observations are in the original translation posts - particularly because jacensolo06 doesn't usually write many notes, so we have to point out the differences. Sometimes Jumbie, or even MPS, will have something really useful to offer on the translation from a previous post, too. Of course, there's a lot of junk in that topic as well, but there was really no way to fix it after a point. It would have been great to have two topics, one for translations and one for discussion, from the beginning, but that topic's role wasn't set in stone from the beginning. It became a general translation topic a bit later.

Can you trasnlate this text? It's the dialogue of Link and the OoA's Maku Tree...

Originally Posted by The Goron Moron

I never did say anything about translations. I was talking about the way things are organized in ZI.

Oh, ok. Well, I must say, the way things are organised at ZI are fantastic, even better than here. Again, I think it might be your grudge talking, not what you really think.

The members of the ZI staff defending ZI.......weird.

P.S. Why would he have a grudge???

You'll have to go to the topic on Legends Alliance and post your request if you want something translated, I can't do anything about it.

The translations really need the colour coding to be easy to read and understand. Tables also help with that dramatically. So just copy and paste isn't enough, but eventually that should be better than having links.

That's Impossible, Impossible!!!

Originally Posted by Impossible

He explained this in the paragraph above the translation, when I pointed out how oddly similar (and yet just different enough) the intro and manual were in the US version. In Japanese, there's only a single set of lines for that story: it's the same in-game and in the manual. So that orange one is the US manual.

Ah. Thanks. I was sort of dumb-founded by the similarities, so I was just checking...

Originally Posted by Impossible

This is true, and in fact, I have just edited the first post to a) Put the quotes in chronological order! and b) add in a couple of missing ones I found. I wasn't very prolific about this earlier in the topic, so if you see any I missed, please let me know.

Awesome.

Originally Posted by Impossible

And don't underestimate the value of the posts and comments on the translations. Not ALL the useful translation notes/observations are in the original translation posts - particularly because jacensolo06 doesn't usually write many notes, so we have to point out the differences. Sometimes Jumbie, or even MPS, will have something really useful to offer on the translation from a previous post, too. Of course, there's a lot of junk in that topic as well, but there was really no way to fix it after a point.

I noticed this too.

I wouldn't downplay any of MPS's or Jumbie's insights. It's hard enough to look at things without bias. But I'm pretty sure I found a couple of things Jumbie sort of sensationalized... It needs to be as fair assessment as possible. Then people can look into it to revamp their understandings of particular storyline elements they've been use to seeing in the NoA versions.

Since jacensolo06 didn't leave many notations after his translation sets, you'd probably be more versed than anyone here to point those out later. I think I'm ahead of you in the comparison chart division though (which I already mentioned to you in the recent PM). I'll have to keep you posted on that for context differences that I could not extract from the threads huge discussions...

Originally Posted by Impossible

It would have been great to have two topics, one for translations and one for discussion, from the beginning, but that topic's role wasn't set in stone from the beginning.

heh. Yeah. You think? lol

Originally Posted by Impossible

The translations really need the colour coding to be easy to read and understand. Tables also help with that dramatically. So just copy and paste isn't enough, but eventually that should be better than having links.

Yeah. That's proving to be quite a pain in the ass considering the Japanese texts scrambles all up upon editing after posting... However copy and pasting again and re-editing fixes it... bah...

Bringing all of these things together is going to make it easier for everybody to make effective use of them. Props, sir. =D

I think there needs to be an effort (undertaken by many) to critically assess the English/other regional texts as localized representations/revisions of the Japanese source text. While pulling together literal translations is a good start, ultimately the original text is (as obvious as this may sound) not the final version of the text, and in a fictional universe subsequent editions may not necessarily be "impure." (retcons, etc.)

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

I think we intend to include this in the Newbies Guide, but until then...

THWOM-

uh I mean STICKIED!

:D

Game Spot/FAQ Zelda boards proved to be useful in all its chaotic clutter. Imagine that.

Note: I wish they would just make frickin Zelda Theorizing - specific forums. You'd think after all these years of infamy in their proclamations they'd have one by now... Why don't you pester the mods to do something about it Impossible? That way Zelda fansite theorists don't get annoyed.

Hylian Symbol Translations:


These translation guides are on Omniglot. Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker are based on Japanese, Twilight Princess on English.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hylian.htm

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hylian2.htm

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hylian3.htm

------------

I figured this might come in handy (for me especially) when people try and decipher screen shots of Hylian texts in-game. Hope this proves to be useful at some point.

~LOZ H~

Mods don't have that power - I happen to know a couple, it doesn't help. What you have to understand is that GameFAQs is a MASSIVE site with a LOT of boards. They can't realistically make boards for every single thing people want to talk about, as it's not a Zelda-specific site. At best, we could grab a dead board or something and use it for timeline discussions, but the story questions and topics from newbies (and GameSpot retards) would still end up being made on the normal game boards. So, someone has to answer them. I mostly see the point of posting there at the moment as a way of preventing ignorance and generally informing people. Because if nobody knowledgeable made timeline posts there, all kinds of random crap, like the GT timeline, would keep getting spread around.

Timeline discussion is on the dead side there at the moment, but it picks up whenever there's a new game. There isn't really much in the way of debates to be had there, as nobody can competently represent the less popular side of many arguments anyway, and most people just stick around here or on LA now. And here, we have dedicated timeline forums that are much more practical, not to mention staff who can actually be a bit more hands-on. Oh, and post editing. I'm mentally incapable of making a post and NOT then wanting to edit it when I realise I didn't say something. Sometimes doubling it in length, too. >_>

Originally Posted by Impossible

Mods don't have that power - I happen to know a couple, it doesn't help. What you have to understand is that GameFAQs is a MASSIVE site with a LOT of boards. They can't realistically make boards for every single thing people want to talk about, as it's not a Zelda-specific site. At best, we could grab a dead board or something and use it for timeline discussions, but the story questions and topics from newbies (and GameSpot retards) would still end up being made on the normal game boards. So, someone has to answer them.

Oh. I know its not a matter of making exceptions to the rules for peoples special interests. I was sort of making a pun with my reasoning beforehand. I'm just saying you'd think they could have a "General Zelda Talk" board, or rather add a general board for any specific series talk.

Originally Posted by Impossible

I mostly see the point of posting there at the moment as a way of preventing ignorance and generally informing people. Because if nobody knowledgeable made timeline posts there, all kinds of random crap, like the GT timeline, would keep getting spread around.

If they were serious theorists that truly gave a damn (aside from you and a few others), they'd look up Zelda Legend's resources more often and also check out what people are actual debating elsewhere too. This is partially at the root of what annoys me about those boards and any other general gaming forums. The fact is that you simply can not force the "non-savvy Zelda fanatics" to be "savvy Zelda fanatics" in order to establish mutual understandings of one another in these studies.

Without the passionate will to interpret "truth" beyond personal bias, there is no purpose in providing tools necessary to fools whom won't use them.

The "truth" belongs to the "savvy Zelda fanatics" (AKA: Zelda Website Communities).

Originally Posted by Impossible

Timeline discussion is on the dead side there at the moment, but it picks up whenever there's a new game. There isn't really much in the way of debates to be had there, as nobody can competently represent the less popular side of many arguments anyway, and most people just stick around here or on LA now. And here, we have dedicated timeline forums that are much more practical, not to mention staff who can actually be a bit more hands-on.

The boards that I have seen in consistent activity anymore are ZL/LA , ZU, and ZI. Zelda Dungeon and The Hylia seem to be lagging lately. Anywhere else in current practice I have not seen or heard of yet.

Originally Posted by Impossible

Oh, and post editing. I'm mentally incapable of making a post and NOT then wanting to edit it when I realise I didn't say something. Sometimes doubling it in length, too. >_>

Uh, Ok.

My resource thread has finally been completed.

[Dances Madly and falls over from exhaustion]

@Impossible:

There are some things I picked out of LA's resource thread which you missed in your listings... You should check my Reference Update Logs when you have convenient time to look it all over.

I also categorized things a bit differently than you did, however, it should suffice to theorists common sense to find things.

Also: I didn't include KnS translations for some reason... Well, its a complete compilation of what canon you guys have been redefining... so I'll keep it specifically aimed towards keeping tabs on LA's thread.

Originally Posted by Impossible

Mods don't have that power - I happen to know a couple, it doesn't help. What you have to understand is that GameFAQs is a MASSIVE site with a LOT of boards. They can't realistically make boards for every single thing people want to talk about, as it's not a Zelda-specific site. At best, we could grab a dead board or something and use it for timeline discussions, but the story questions and topics from newbies (and GameSpot retards) would still end up being made on the normal game boards. So, someone has to answer them. I mostly see the point of posting there at the moment as a way of preventing ignorance and generally informing people. Because if nobody knowledgeable made timeline posts there, all kinds of random crap, like the GT timeline, would keep getting spread around.

Hmm, I think Impossible just gained my respect

Thanks, I'm adding in the translations I missed to my list, so I'll update the one online when I get around to it. For the most part, the missing translations were ones I saw, but didn't bother getting the URL for, when I originally went through the topic. That was back when I was making them more as a resource for my own use. When it's meant to be a list for everyone, then even the useless translations may as well be included. Some of them were a couple of random lines in a post somewhere that didn't have much to do with anything, but were just a response to something, so that's one reason I might not have bothered before.

I also didn't have a couple of TWW translations I had personally asked for, possibly because I didn't see the point in tracking those after I had made the translation table with all those translations. And it's annoying on my list anyway, since they're scattered quotes, and I've mostly tried to avoid repeated use of the same URL. I have done that when necessary, but occasionally there is another minor translation hidden in a post where it isn't evident on the translation list. You got all those and handled them well, though.

Just for the record, you've included the "hero lines" translations from TP in there twice. And "Ganondorf taking note of Link's sword" may be an inaccurate name. At least part of that seems to be about Ganondorf's own sword, and it's not 100% clear what he's talking about.

LOZH, you forgot to add OoX to the titles list. And you said: "As you can see, no game except FSA uses more than one name for Ganon.", which isn't really true because of OoX. All the rest seems pretty good to me

Originally Posted by Impossible

And it's annoying on my list anyway, since they're scattered quotes, and I've mostly tried to avoid repeated use of the same URL. I have done that when necessary, but occasionally there is another minor translation hidden in a post where it isn't evident on the translation list. You got all those and handled them well, though.

Yeah, thanks. Your list definitely helped me track back on those misc. little translations made before and or after major sets of re-translations. Because of stuff like that being scattered, I had to source more than once to certain posts... well, because they had to be. heh

Originally Posted by Impossible

Just for the record, you've included the "hero lines" translations from TP in there twice.

You are probably talking about these two sections:

[Hero’s Shade Quotes]
[All Text Dump Quotes about the Ancient Hero]

I purposely left it like that. I didn't want to confuse people if I removed anything. Things got really hazy in the Mic. TP Translations section because of all the random fragments of things laying around at the beginning of LA's Re-Translation project.

No harm leaving this as is.

Originally Posted by Impossible

And "Ganondorf taking note of Link's sword" may be an inaccurate name. At least part of that seems to be about Ganondorf's own sword, and it's not 100% clear what he's talking about.

Hmm. Well: [Ganondorf Speaking about Blades and his Desire] then.

Also: Now that this is completed, I'll be able to easily finish my OoT charts I wanted to show you a month back. Give me a few days. (I won't be adding any notations because Duke Serkol, myself, and Erimgard are working on something to include other appropriate people to recapture notations lost in between debates within the LA thread - while discussing what other things may need to be added too. You can be assured that we will be taking heavy consideration to make sure contexts are evaluated fairly and as unbiased as possible for other theorists' studies. We want to avoid "theory" reflecting through the notes.

Originally Posted by Smertios

LOZH, you forgot to add OoX to the titles list.

What are you talking about? Of course there are links to the OoX translations.

Originally Posted by Smertios

And you said: "As you can see, no game except FSA uses more than one name for Ganon.", which isn't really true because of OoX. All the rest seems pretty good to me

I haven't added any notes of my own to any of the context (except in areas where a fourth re-translation line was used). Everything after [Note/s] or [Side Notes] (In between translations) retains Jumbie, jacensolo06, and/or Prime Blues original insights. What Jumbie did there is simply out of date.

Anyway, thanks.

You are probably talking about these two sections:

[Hero’s Shade Quotes]
[All Text Dump Quotes about the Ancient Hero]

I purposely left it like that. I didn't want to confuse people if I removed anything. Things got really hazy in the Mic. TP Translations section because of all the random fragments of things laying around at the beginning of LA's Re-Translation project.

No harm leaving this as is.

No, I think you messed up somewhere and included the entire "all text dump quotes about the ancient hero" somewhere else earlier. Including ones that had nothing to do with the Hero's Shade.

@LoZH: You should add the translations from AST and FPTRRL etc, regardless...

Originally Posted by Impossible

No, I think you messed up somewhere and included the entire "all text dump quotes about the ancient hero" somewhere else earlier. Including ones that had nothing to do with the Hero's Shade.

Hmm. It should be fixed now. Huh...

Originally Posted by Pinecove

@LoZH: You should add the translations from AST and FPTRRL etc, regardless...

Err. I really don't want to do that. I'm going to make another thread which will consist of other retranslations, such as those, and stuff done by Zethar II and Johane.

So I'm going to keep it specifically aimed at keeping tabs on LA thread's progress.

Edit: Now that I think of it, I remember some re-translations being made at the Hylia a long time ago too...