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  #41 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 10:49 AM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

I highly doubt that
We've had calm and intelligent disscusions on linear timelines here before.
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  #42 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 06:09 PM
Maru Nui Maru Nui is a male United States Maru Nui is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

I apologize if my words seemed harsh, they simply fit my opinion of what you said.

Ockham's Razor is a scientific principle that states that a theory that explains all facets of a problem more simply than a competing theory is the most likely to be true. This is what I was saying, the split timeline explains all the points you brought up better than a linear one.

If the developers screwed putting WW in a linear timeline, it was intentional. Because they had the split in mind when they made it.
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  #43 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 06:24 PM
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterGerri View Post
I guess it all comes down to weather you choose to believe in retcon or not. Having said that, I'm afraid that I have to end the discussion at this point, since most of my ideas are not being received very well, which I suspect is due to the fact that I am making a point for a linear timeline rather than that my points aren't valid.

So thanks to all of you who shared their time with me. It was an interesting, yet a bit depressing experience.
I like the board design, though.
So would you like for this thread to be closed by a mod now?
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  #44 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 06:57 PM
PeterGerri PeterGerri is a male Austria PeterGerri is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

Not necessarily. Maybe someone will stumble upon it sooner or later and wanna comment on something. If not, it will disappear from the front pages anyway, so why bother.
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  #45 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 07:10 PM
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

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Originally Posted by PeterGerri
The split timeline of course supports solution 2 where changes in time will cause a timeline to split. But the game, Ocarina of Time, itself supports a consistent flow of time where past events already take effect in the future. This is proven by the way you learn the Song of Storms: you come to the future, not knowing the song. Then you learn it from a guy who has learned it from you in the past. Then you can go to the past and teach the guy this song. So, in a way, this is a self-fullfilling prophecy. If the past events didn't already take effect in the future, the man in the windmill wouldn't know the song and be able to teach it to you in the first place.
So why doesn't Adult Link already have the Lens of Truth and the Silver Gauntlets?
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  #46 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 07:38 PM
PeterGerri PeterGerri is a male Austria PeterGerri is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

Because if he already had them, there'd be no need for him to go to the past and get them. Or in other words: if he already had them in the future, he would never be able to get them. That's not very consistent, is it? Unlike the Song of Storms, this wouldn't be a self-fullfilling, but a self-denying 'prophecy'.
Hope that clears it up since I didn't want to discuss this further. I understand that the split timeline is handled very much like a dogma around here, so there's not much sense in trying to explain my points. Most of you would probably just consider me stubborn and narrow-minded for doing that, so I'll stop.
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  #47 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-04-2009, 12:54 AM
SevenYears SevenYears is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

The lens and silver gauntlets would be a fulfillment of the future only if they are missing from their resting places and are already in Adult Link's possession. In the future, the windmill man already knowing the song and the well already being drained is the only fulfillment situation. This is the only thing the game truly shows. If you want an in-depth explanation that covers the entire game, click the Time Travel link in my sig.
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  #48 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-04-2009, 04:40 PM
Nittles Nittles is a male United States Nittles is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

Quote:
This is a problem that often shows up with time travels and just like the Back to the Future-movies, the Zelda series mixes that up pretty often. Sometimes the timeline is consistent and self-fullfilling (Song of Storms), sometimes it isn't (Majora's Mask). So... there's probably no solution to this.
There is in fact a very simple solution to this. Different methods of time travel = different types of time travel. Let's take a look, shall we?

In OoT, the MS time travel is linear, the SoS proves this. No debate here.

In MM, Ocarina time travel is non-linear, so it would be logical to assume that it is in OoT as well.

The time travel in TP and OoA is irrelevant, but linear. If you want proof, I can get it.

Conclusion? There is a split.
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  #49 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-04-2009, 05:01 PM
PeterGerri PeterGerri is a male Austria PeterGerri is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

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Originally Posted by Nittles View Post
In MM, Ocarina time travel is non-linear, so it would be logical to assume that it is in OoT as well.
But in OoT, Zelda sends Link back to a past point in time with the Ocarina, while Link in Majora's Mask actually rewinds time (or is there also a split created when Link goes back to the first day, leaving the future to be destroyed by the moon?).
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  #50 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-04-2009, 05:11 PM
Nittles Nittles is a male United States Nittles is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

Due to MM's dark nature, I believe the latter, as well as that he uses the OoT in the same way Zelda used it to send him back, not rewind time.
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  #51 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-05-2009, 05:09 PM
Maru Nui Maru Nui is a male United States Maru Nui is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

But wouldn't that reset him completely? Like it did in OoT? Simply pointing out a flaw in your reasoning, not disagreeing with you.
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  #52 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-05-2009, 05:15 PM
Nittles Nittles is a male United States Nittles is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

But it wasn't a rewind, as he suggests, but a timeline jump, as I suggest.
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  #53 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-05-2009, 05:25 PM
PeterGerri PeterGerri is a male Austria PeterGerri is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

Are you talking about MM now or Ocarina?
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  #54 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-06-2009, 03:40 PM
Nittles Nittles is a male United States Nittles is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

What you're suggesting is that the Ocarina in MM "rewinds" time, and I say that it splits the timeline. I was supporting this by saying that in OoT, it's very obviously not rewinding time, so why would it be in MM?
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  #55 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-06-2009, 03:58 PM
PeterGerri PeterGerri is a male Austria PeterGerri is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

Because that's the whole point to have the Ocarina in the story? Link can't save Termina within those three days, so luckily he receives the Ocarina so he can go back to the beginning of them? Maybe I tend to believe too much in happy endings, but thinking that Link left the future to be destroyed by the moon... I ask you.

And about that "very obvious" incident in OoT... I am basically claiming since the beginning of this thread that rewinding the time is excactly what the Ocarina does in OoT.

I can understand if people believe in the one split in time that has been confirmed by the developers... but believing in a split timeline that is split again in its child timeline... no, sorry, I can't agree with that. That's getting too freakin' confusing (and depressing, think of all the doomed Terminas that would be created by that), and that's why I'm against a split timeline in general.
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:35 PM
Maru Nui Maru Nui is a male United States Maru Nui is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

Well, of course MM wouldn't split the timeline. The amount of times a person goes back in that game is unlimited, and causes any and all timeline theories to essentially die in chaos.

I think that's a rewinding time situation.
Cheers.
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:34 PM
Nittles Nittles is a male United States Nittles is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

Hold on. If the OoT rewinds on OoT, then that means that in your one timeline, he was never the HoT, and so WW couldn't happen, at least not with all the stuff about the HoT.


Quote:
Well, of course MM wouldn't split the timeline. The amount of times a person goes back in that game is unlimited, and causes any and all timeline theories to essentially die in chaos.
Why not? None of the other timelines are relevant. All you know about those is that Termina is destroyed. Yeah. Boohoo, but the following is a QFT:
Quote:
Epicness vs fact. <fact
So, even though it's not a happy ending, since it's the most likely way for it to go, that's the most likely way for it to go. It is not disproved just because it's "unhappy."
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Last Edited by Nittles; 03-06-2009 at 05:35 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #58 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-06-2009, 09:06 PM
PeterGerri PeterGerri is a male Austria PeterGerri is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

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Originally Posted by Nittles View Post
Hold on. If the OoT rewinds on OoT, then that means that in your one timeline, he was never the HoT, and so WW couldn't happen, at least not with all the stuff about the HoT.
No, that is not entirely true. Obviously, as seen in Majora's Mask, time can be rewinded (let's assume just for a second that this is what's happening) so that some events/states whatever are reset to what they used to be, and others are not, if you get what I mean. For example: if you beat all four dungeons within the three days and go back to day 1, Clock Town and everything will be what it was before, but you will still have freed the giants from the dungeons. That wouldn't be possible if everything was reset through to the rewinding.
So if you look at it from this perspective, and apply these ideas to OoT, that's basically the same principle that I've been presenting from my first post on - that the future of OoT is merged into its past, because some things (time, mainly) are reset to what they were before, while other, critical circumstances and achievements are being "taken with you" back in time and therefore creating a new situation in the past.
I know that you probably won't agree with me, but you will hopefully see that it all makes perfect sense from my point of view (even if you're not sharing that point, and I am not asking you to do so).
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:07 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

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No, that is not entirely true. Obviously, as seen in Majora's Mask, time can be rewinded (let's assume just for a second that this is what's happening) so that some events/states whatever are reset to what they used to be, and others are not, if you get what I mean. For example: if you beat all four dungeons within the three days and go back to day 1, Clock Town and everything will be what it was before, but you will still have freed the giants from the dungeons. That wouldn't be possible if everything was reset through to the rewinding.
So if you look at it from this perspective, and apply these ideas to OoT,
Then that's fan fiction as OoT doesn't follow those perspectives.
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  #60 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-06-2009, 09:19 PM
PeterGerri PeterGerri is a male Austria PeterGerri is offline
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Re: I don't believe in the split timeline - here's why.

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Then that's fan fiction as OoT doesn't follow those perspectives.
It's speculation and interpreting. If you have ingame evidence that OoT does not follow those rules, I'd love to see it.
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