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  #41 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 10:51 AM
Smertios Smertios is a male Brazil Smertios is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsbane View Post
Yeah, I'd say the Sage's Seal is still intact in LoZ, which is why Ganon's Lair at Spectacle Rock was shown to be in the Dark World in ALttP. In ALttP, the Seal is finally broken.
Ganon's Lair is not in Spectacle Rock in LttP. IThe rock isn't even in the DW...
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  #42 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 05:21 PM
Average Gamer Average Gamer is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsbane
Yeah, I'd say the Sage's Seal is still intact in LoZ, which is why Ganon's Lair at Spectacle Rock was shown to be in the Dark World in ALttP. In ALttP, the Seal is finally broken.
The AoL manual says that Ganon's minions had no problem bringing soldiers out of Ganon's Makai as part of the effort to revive Ganon though, so there doesn't seem to have been any seal.
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Vaati is the oldest villain in the Zelda chronology, and the oldest are always the most powerful.
Man, I've disproved this point every time I've dropped by the old folk's home.

I... I'm not allowed there any more.
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  #43 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 05:34 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is online now
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

^Where, exactly, does it say that the Makai was the SR?
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  #44 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 05:37 PM
Ashanark Ashanark is a male United States Ashanark is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

I thought the AoL manual just said that Ganon's minions called up monsters from the underworld. Not sure if it's a Makai though. And the Makai = SR thing comes from Shiek, I believe.
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  #45 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 05:41 PM
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Japanese text refers to it as the Makai.

A Makai is an area controlled by a Demon. The SR was controlled by Maou Ganon therefore it was a Makai.

EDIT: Damn it I made it sound like the Makai controls the demon. Not the other way around.
Last Edited by theunabletable; 03-02-2009 at 05:43 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #46 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 05:43 PM
Average Gamer Average Gamer is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign of Madness
^Where, exactly, does it say that the Makai was the SR?
The only confirmed Makai in the series is the corrupted Sacred Realm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashanark
I thought the AoL manual just said that Ganon's minions called up monsters from the underworld. Not sure if it's a Makai though.
Here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda Legends AoL Manual Translation
Meanwhile, Ganon's underlings were calling up fresh footmen from the World of Spirits (Hell), and had begun working for Ganon's revival...
In addition to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda Legends AoL Manual Translation Commentary
Chuugen means Samurai's attendant/footman (ie ordinary solidiers, ie cannon fodder). It is not "allies."

"Makai" means the World of Spirits (Hell). Makai is also used in OoT when Zelda and Rauru explain what will happen to the Sacred Realm if it is corrupted - it will become a "world of evil," a world "filled with evil."

Note that Makai is NOT the Underworld from LoZ. In LoZ, the Underworld is referred to as 地下 - "Chika," underground. So the underworld in LoZ is literally underground.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcvalons
Vaati is the oldest villain in the Zelda chronology, and the oldest are always the most powerful.
Man, I've disproved this point every time I've dropped by the old folk's home.

I... I'm not allowed there any more.
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  #47 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 05:45 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is online now
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
The only confirmed Makai in the series is the corrupted Sacred Realm.
Sure but like I said a Makai is just an area controlled by a demon. If I were a demon my house would be a Makai.

So the Makai could be practically anything.
Last Edited by theunabletable; 03-02-2009 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #48 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 05:49 PM
Average Gamer Average Gamer is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign of Madness
Sure but like I said a Makai is just an area controlled by a demon. If I were a demon my house would be a Makai.

So the Makai could be practically anything.
Yet the series suggests that the only Makai is the corrupted Sacred Realm. Also, the fact that the footmen were supposedly "called up" gives the impression that they were summoned from another realm.
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Originally Posted by Fintin O Brien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcvalons
Vaati is the oldest villain in the Zelda chronology, and the oldest are always the most powerful.
Man, I've disproved this point every time I've dropped by the old folk's home.

I... I'm not allowed there any more.
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  #49 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 05:52 PM
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Wouldn't the Twilight Realm technically be a Makai?
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  #50 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 05:56 PM
Average Gamer Average Gamer is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign of Madness
Wouldn't the Twilight Realm technically be a Makai?
It's not a demonic world ruled by a demon, so I don't see why it would be.
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Originally Posted by Fintin O Brien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcvalons
Vaati is the oldest villain in the Zelda chronology, and the oldest are always the most powerful.
Man, I've disproved this point every time I've dropped by the old folk's home.

I... I'm not allowed there any more.
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  #51 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 06:02 PM
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Oh wait Zant controlled the TR, didn't he? Haven't played TP since like '07.

Do you think that the DW in FSA is the corrupted SR?
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  #52 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 06:07 PM
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign of Madness
Oh wait Zant controlled the TR, didn't he? Haven't played TP since like '07.

Do you think that the DW in FSA is the corrupted SR?
I'll just take this to PM's so that the thread doesn't get derailed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fintin O Brien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcvalons
Vaati is the oldest villain in the Zelda chronology, and the oldest are always the most powerful.
Man, I've disproved this point every time I've dropped by the old folk's home.

I... I'm not allowed there any more.
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  #53 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-02-2009, 06:29 PM
Smallville Boy 69 Mexico Smallville Boy 69 is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

In LOZ Ganon don't control the SR.
At the end of ALTTP the dark world was vanished and became the SR again. Ganon in ALTTP find and open the gate to the SR by accident, ganon from LOZ is another Ganon he dont know the location of the SR, and he need the complete triforce to turn the SR into the DW again.
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Last Edited by Smallville Boy 69; 03-02-2009 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #54 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 10:52 AM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Gamer View Post
It's not a demonic world ruled by a demon, so I don't see why it would be.
I disagree.

Ganon rules it the exact same way he rules the Makai in FSA.
In FSA, he gets a pawn [Vaati] to use drain the land of its "force" which causes darkness to seep out of the Makai into Hyrule. [Forest of Darkness and other places]

In TP, he gets a pawn [Zant] to drain the land of its "light" which causes darkness to seep out of the Twilight Realm into Hyrule. [Twilight Curtain]

The Twilight Curtain is never directly called a Makai, no, but neither is the Dark World of aLttP. However, both games feature Ganon as a Maou, and in both games, those are by far the most likely Makai candidates.
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  #55 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 02:19 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Gamer View Post
The only confirmed Makai in the series is the corrupted Sacred Realm.
The word "makai" doesn't appear in ALttP.

Just so you know.
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  #56 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 05:19 PM
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimgard
I disagree.

Ganon rules it the exact same way he rules the Makai in FSA.
In FSA, he gets a pawn [Vaati] to use drain the land of its "force" which causes darkness to seep out of the Makai into Hyrule. [Forest of Darkness and other places]

In TP, he gets a pawn [Zant] to drain the land of its "light" which causes darkness to seep out of the Twilight Realm into Hyrule. [Twilight Curtain]
Except the Twilight Realm is basically unchanged. It's still the same, and Ganon isn't even really interested in it to begin with; it's just his stepping stone back into Hyrule. Also, there appears to be a distinction between Twilight and Darkness in TP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimgard
The Twilight Curtain is never directly called a Makai, no, but neither is the Dark World of aLttP.
However, Sheik's statement in OoT tells us that a corrupted Sacred Realm is a Makai. The Dark World was a corrupted Sacred Realm, so thus it was a Makai.
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Originally Posted by Fintin O Brien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcvalons
Vaati is the oldest villain in the Zelda chronology, and the oldest are always the most powerful.
Man, I've disproved this point every time I've dropped by the old folk's home.

I... I'm not allowed there any more.
Reply With Quote
  #57 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 05:24 PM
Commander GorMor Canada Commander GorMor is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

I thought a makai is only a makai if it is ruled or something by a daimaou.

Ganondorf didn't exactly rule a realm in OoT.
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  #58 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 05:36 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Goron Moron View Post
I thought a makai is only a makai if it is ruled or something by a daimaou.

Ganondorf didn't exactly rule a realm in OoT.
He ruled the Sacred Realm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Gamer View Post
Except the Twilight Realm is basically unchanged.
Ever played Okami?

It's the same in that game.

Quote:
However, Sheik's statement in OoT tells us that a corrupted Sacred Realm is a Makai. The Dark World was a corrupted Sacred Realm, so thus it was a Makai.
The Twilight Realm/FSA Dark World was a corrupted Light world. What's the difference what land is being corrupted, as long as it's a maou corrupting it with dark power?
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  #59 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 06:10 PM
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Lexxi Aileron
Ever played Okami?

It's the same in that game.
Maybe you should actually point out an instance from Okami instead of just telling me to play it.

Even then, Sheik's OoT speech confirms that, in the Zelda series, a Makai is apparently the opposite of a paradise, not just a land ruled by a demon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheik (Jumbie Translation)
The place where the sacred triangle is, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects one's heart.

If the heart of one who enters it is evil, it turns into a Makai [Demon World]; if the heart is pure, it turns into a paradise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Lexxi Aileron
The Twilight Realm/FSA Dark World was a corrupted Light world.
I wasn't talking about the Twilight Curtain Light World Lex.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fintin O Brien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcvalons
Vaati is the oldest villain in the Zelda chronology, and the oldest are always the most powerful.
Man, I've disproved this point every time I've dropped by the old folk's home.

I... I'm not allowed there any more.
Reply With Quote
  #60 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-03-2009, 06:20 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: "The stage is set" ...A official box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Gamer View Post
Maybe you should actually point out an instance from Okami instead of just telling me to play it.
Parts of the world are covered in a demonic power and anyone who enters it is cursed, just like in TP. These worlds are makai; demon worlds.

Quote:
Even then, Sheik's OoT speech confirms that, in the Zelda series, a Makai is apparently the opposite of a paradise, not just a land ruled by a demon.
A person with an evil heart is often considered a demon in Japanese mythology. So a person with an evil heart who controls the Sacred Realm causes it to become a demon world.

Quote:
I wasn't talking about the Twilight Curtain Light World Lex.
Irrelevant; the same thing is true of the Light World in TP and FSA that is true of the SR in ALttP and OoT- it was corrupted by demonic power.
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