"The stage is set" ...A official box!

Originally Posted by Smertios

How on earth can the translator not know the language he is going to translate?!

Have you played LoZ? Did you ever wonder why the grammar is so horrible? XD

But if he doesn't speak Japanese and he only speaks English, you'd think that the grammar would be good, anyway.

The box referring to one time period then referring to another without any sort of transition makes no sense. It'd be like me saying "Man, a lot of people died in World War 1. Hitler was so evil" which would make no sense because Hitler had no part in World War 1. (Actually he was a soldier, iIrc. But he wasn't important at the time. So it still makes no sense.)

lol

still, he needs to have at least some knowledge of the language...

Originally Posted by Sign of Madness

"Man, a lot of people died in World War 1. Hitler was so evil"

But this box is saying something more like

"This time, the stage of World War II (ALttP) was set during World War I (the IW). The evil Hitler (Agahnim) threatens the peace and freedom in Europe (Hyrule)."

The box is telling us how the stage for this game was set, referring back to the time period that set the stage, and then placing us on the stage. Rather like how the intro does the same, and then we begin the game.

LoZ, on the other hand, would be more like the German Revolution, which an armed struggle that happened after WWI and before WWII. Agahnim's rise to power would equate to the Nationalist Revolution, which happened later and was the coup that led to Hitler's rise.

Originally Posted by Mr. Lexxi Aileron

But this box is saying something more like

"This time, the stage of World War II was set during World War I. The evil Hitler threatens the peace and freedom in Europe."

The box is telling us how the stage for this game was set, referring back to the time period that set the stage, and then placing us on the stage. Rather like how the intro does the same, and then we begin the game.

In the Zelda universe, the stage being set would refer to Ganon getting cast into the corrupted/Sealed Sacred Realm where he begins in aLttP.

In our universe, the stage being set would be Germany falling into economic ruin and turning to Hitler for help post-WW1, leading to WW2.

I could see why you'd think that "This time, the stage is set very long before the time when Link accomplished a feat, the epoch when Hyrule was still one kingdom." refers to the SW. But when the rest of the box refers to LttP that implies that the beginning was referring to LttP, too.

The box is telling us how the stage for this game was set, referring back to the time period that set the stage, and then placing us on the stage. Rather like how the intro does the same, and then we begin the game.

Not quite. It sets the stage. Then proceeds to talk about the game. I don't think they intended for you to only read on line on the box and not read the other 2...

Originally Posted by Erimgard

In the Zelda universe, the stage being set would refer to Ganon getting cast into the corrupted/Sealed Sacred Realm where he begins in aLttP.

Or the seal being cast, the same seal that Agahnim is trying to dissolve.

Regardless, we know that the events of the IW and the unification of Hyrule were adapted in OoT.

In our universe, the stage being set would be Germany falling into economic ruin and turning to Hitler for help post-WW1, leading to WW2.

So WWI would be the IW
which sets the stage for the economic ruin in which Hitler rose (coming of Agahnim)
and later WWII (ALttP).

Although it could just as well be

The economic ruin in which Hitler rose (coming of Agahnim)
sets the stage for WWII (ALttP).

But since the IW leads to everything, I prefer to see it as the "setting of the stage."

and later WWII (ALttP).

The funny thing is, though, that there is no "and". It just continues to talk about what seems like the same time period.

And if the stage is referring to Agahnim then it still means that Hyrule was one country at the time of LttP.

Originally Posted by Sign of Madness

The funny thing is, though, that there is no "and". It just continues to talk about what seems like the same time period.

The coming of Agahnim is the same time period as ALttP, the and was just meant to show that WWI (the IW) set the entire stage of WWII (Agahnim's rise and ALttP), and as such could also be the "setting of the stage."

And if the stage is referring to Agahnim then it still means that Hyrule was one country at the time of LttP.

The box doesn't refer to Agahnim in Japan, though. So it could be referring to either the events that led directly to the game (Agahnim) or to the events that underlie everything (the IW).

The box doesn't refer to Agahnim in Japan, though. So it could be referring to either the events that led directly to the game (Agahnim) or to the events that underlie everything (the IW).

Did you ever think that it could be referring to, oh Idk, the game itself?

Originally Posted by Mr. Lexxi Aileron

Of course, I could be wrong, and it could be meant to be the first game. It just seems to me that since its release nothing has been done to support the arguments that have been raised to support the idea that it is a prequel to LoZ, so it seems equally clear that it just never was in the first place, and we were all wrong.

When originally released, though, it can be easy to conclude that Alttp comes before based on what we are given – A story prologue in the SNES manual that includes a Ganon origins story which details Ganon sealed away with the Triforce in the SR/DW, and then, game events which match those conditions – The player finds Ganon with the Triforce in the SR/DW. With or without the box, Alttp first story-wise is a fit, at that particular time.

My current thinking is that the middle-ground position on this looks very attractive. In other words, this: Alttp was indeed first at the time of its release, based on the manual prologue and in-game events. It’s a loose, almost “unofficial” chronology at that time. Given the young age of the series, Timeline is an afterthought, not really a consideration – Evidenced by the Sound & Drama release, which casts into doubt what the “official” pre-game events to Alltp were.

Later, during the development of OoT, decisions are made by the script direction team of Osawa/Tanabe to change many specifics of the Seal War, including, among others, the racial makeup of the sages. At some point during this process of change, the first major timeline decision in the Zelda series is made, moving Alttp’s game events to the end, and letting OoT function fully as the “official” Seal War. This is evidenced by the manual omissions in the Alttp GBA release, and more importantly by Miyamoto in his timeline statement interview in 1998, which leaves timeline theorists scratching their heads.

Originally Posted by KJ Contrarian

Ganon origins story which details Ganon sealed away with the Triforce in the SR/DW, and then, game events which match those conditions – The player finds Ganon with the Triforce in the SR/DW. With or without the box, Alttp first story-wise is a fit, at that particular time.

The Ganon origins story details Ganon seizing the Triforce from the Sacred Realm, causing darkness to come out of the Sacred Realm, and then the Sacred Realm being sealed. The story as the people remember it is simply that the realm was opened, that darkness came out, and that the realm was sealed. No one makes any reference, at any point in the game, to Ganon/any demon(s) being sealed inside the Sacred Realm- just the dark power that had come from there.

At the time the game came out we certainly had no information to say anything besides that Ganon was trapped inside; as far as ALttP went, he never came out when he went into the Sacred Realm, and the only time he went into the Sacred Realm that we knew of was the IW.

OoT of course showed Ganon being dumped inside when the realm was sealed, but notably in OoT, Ganon came out of the Sacred Realm after he entered it, and in OoT he didn't steal the entire Triforce and was not able to make a wish on it. So Ganon had to have "rediscovered" the Sacred Realm and stolen the complete Triforce at another time, after the Imprisoning War, either that or OoT had to have directly revised the original ALttP story.

I'm currently at something of a middle ground as well; we know that ALttP tells the origins of the Triforce, Hyrule, and Ganon, and as such the game certainly is deeply connected to the "time when Hyrule was one kingdom." What we do not know is how LoZ and AoL fit into that picture; it is my opinion that their place was probably never defined in the context of ALttP's release, and that material released after ALttP- S&D, OoT, OoX, TWW, and FSA- help clarify that placement.

Originally Posted by Sign of Madness

Did you ever think that it could be referring to, oh Idk, the game itself?

It says that "the stage is set when Hyrule was one kingdom," and as far as I know that can mean:
Hyrule (the stage that is set) is one kingdom in this story
or
Hyrule is one kingdom during the events that preceded this story (the events that set the stage)

Given that OoT confirmed the latter (and that it is true regardless of the former) and TWW dismisses the former, I'm not so sure the former was ever the case.

Is pretty obvious that the intent was:

ALTTP-LOZ-AOL.

The sleeping princess zelda from AOL BS is zelda from ALTTP.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

You're talking about the japanese here, just saying. Far from everything makes any sense at all.

It's not the Japanese. It's that there's some Japanese talking about the stage being set and then none explaining what the stage is or how it was set. It has to be the game. It doesn't matter what language it's in, that's what makes the most sense.

The importance of this is that Hyrule is one kingdom at the time of ALttP. The intent part of it would be ancient and not worth anything, especially since Miyamoto said ALttP was always thought of as the sequel to LoZ. FSA seems to be saying something different, of course, but people like to ignore that.

The importance of this is that Hyrule is one kingdom at the time of ALttP.

At the time of release. Whether that is the case now or not is up for debate.

I don't see what could have changed it. If it was one country then, it still should be now as long as there's no evidence of that being retconned.

At the time of release. Whether that is the case now or not is up for debate.

Well FSA is a tiny island implying that it would be 1 kingdom. Then nothing contradicts it being one kingdom.

I agree with Ollathir. Nothing seems to say that it isn't one kingdom, in fact, I'd say FSA implies that it is 1 kingdom.

Originally Posted by Ollathir

It's that there's some Japanese talking about the stage being set and then none explaining what the stage is or how it was set. It has to be the game.

Despite the game's intro telling us how the stage was set, and those events later being attached to a game in which Hyrule was said to be unified just before the game began, and that game being followed up by a flood that surely would ended that period of unity? You are so sure that it was meant to be the game they referred to?

Originally Posted by Mr. Lexxi Aileron

Despite the game's intro telling us how the stage was set, and those events later being attached to a game in which Hyrule was said to be unified just before the game began, and that game being followed up by a flood that surely would ended that period of unity? You are so sure that it was meant to be the game they referred to?

You just forget that LttP was released in 1991, OoT in 1998 and TWW in 2002.

So, back in 1991, they had no idea about the flood or that Hyrule would cease to be 'one' kingdom between oot and LttP ye...

Originally Posted by Smertios

You just forget that LttP was released in 1991, OoT in 1998 and TWW in 2002.

So, back in 1991, they had no idea about the flood or that Hyrule would cease to be 'one' kingdom between oot and LttP ye...

If people have concluded that the ALttP-LoZ placement not true now, and was never clear then, why bother to argue that it was ever true? I personally never saw any implication within ALttP's story itself that it was before LoZ; just the appearance of origins stories (even though AoL has an origins story also). And now that I've read the Japanese box text it seems a lot less clear whether ALttP was ever really a prequel.