Art in the Alltp players guide, canon?

Source: Multimedia Gallery - Home > Image Gallery > The Legend of Zelda

The following pictures all appear in the official Nintendo player's guide of Alttp. They are used to retell the original Legend of Zelda storyline. In order to catch players up with the series. Therefore, at the time, the intent was LoZ/AoL-Alltp. (So no more of this original intent crap about the AoL BS.) Interesting note, on the page is also pictures from the LA guide that depict moments in loZ. This means that LA also takes place after LoZ.

All of the pictures are there, but I will be posting the important ones.

This picture shows that Ganon did in fact have the trident in the game.

What this means for both placements

If Soul is still in the trident after FSA/Alttp
early : Nothing, the soul isnt in it untill OOX. However the trident = yami no maou arguement does not work
late: how did someone get it while it was in the sacred realm?

If soul is not in the trident:
early: Nothing
Late : Nothing



While the triforce thing has obviously been changed. The important thing here is the sword. It is pretty identical (other than the coloring) to the Master sword in Alltp. That sword is supposed to be the Magic Sword. So does that mean the MS=magic sword?

What this would mean for both LoZ placements.

early LoZ: OOX can no longer be used to explain it's reappearance.
late LoZ: Needs an explanation on how it got from the pedistal in the lost woods, to an old man's cave.

Alltp MS: (thanks Goron Moron.)

I don't think it is canon. But I do think Ganon has the trident. LA takes place after LoZ? Wouldn't that mean you would have to convert to LoZ/AoL/OoX/LA? Hahaha.

I have no problem with the art being canon, as it's probably more accurate than our perceptions anyway.

Originally Posted by Sign of Madness

I don't think it is canon. But I do think Ganon has the trident. LA takes place after LoZ? Wouldn't that mean you would have to convert to LoZ/AoL/OoX/LA? Hahaha.

I never said directly after, Just that loz/aol can't be after LA.

I have no problem with the art being canon, as it's probably more accurate than our perceptions anyway.

Did you use OoX to explain the MS's return? If so, we now need to think of a new reason.

I have doubts about actually believing it. Because at the time of LttP's release it did go LttP-LoZ. And I'd say a box is more official than a players guide.

regardless, the first picture indicates that Trident does indeed equal Blue Ganon. I think Ganon was means to wield a trident in the Original, but they scrapped it for gameplay reasons or something else.

The Sword Link wields looks similar to the MS but needn't be. Many swords can look alike without being the same.

Canon? Yes, but that doesn't mean it automatically disproves or proves certain theories.

Originally Posted by Sign of Madness

I have doubts about actually believing it. Because at the time of LttP's release it did go LttP-LoZ. And I'd say a box is more official than a players guide.

The box was NoA only. I do know that these were drawn by an japanese artist according to the site.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

regardless, the first picture indicates that Trident does indeed equal Blue Ganon. I think Ganon was means to wield a trident in the Original, but they scrapped it for gameplay reasons or something else.

The Sword Link wields looks similar to the MS but needn't be. Many swords can look alike without being the same.

Canon? Yes, but that doesn't mean it automatically disproves or proves certain theories.

The sword in the picture even has the triforce on the same part of the blade.

^ Yes, but here's a thing with the magic sword... since it's so hard to make out any details, people looked at the colors. The Magic Sword's colors don't match up with the Master Sword's.

Then of course, the MS has been through a number of minor redesigns, so that point might be moot...

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

^ Yes, but here's a thing with the magic sword... since it's so hard to make out any details, people looked at the colors. The Magic Sword's colors don't match up with the Master Sword's.

Then of course, the MS has been through a number of minor redesigns, so that point might be moot...

originally the magic sword looking nothing like the MS. But in this it is almost identical except it is more goldish brown. Which seems to be because of the style.

If it helps, this is official artwork of ALttP's Master Sword.

Image:Master Sword.png - Zelda Wiki.org

Well, unless anyone can come up with a good reason for it, I'm going to assume that LoZ gameplay goes before ALttP art... if we have to make a choice.

Besides, the Magic Sword is an optional item, the Magic Sword needn't even be used in LoZ canon, for all we know.

^true, but he starts off with it is AoL. Showing that it was canon to get it.

^ Ah, well there we go then.

Then, and I'm just saying this, he could have been issued it later, after killing Ganon. Does that have any significance at all? Probably not, but who knows? I don't play AoL.

Goodnight!

The box was NoA only. I do know that these were drawn by an japanese artist according to the site.

The NoJ box implies the same thing.

Originally Posted by Skylark

late: how did someone get it while it was in the sacred realm?

What do you mean?

While the triforce thing has obviously been changed. The important thing here is the sword. It is pretty identical (other than the coloring) to the Master sword in Alltp. That sword is supposed to be the Magic Sword. So does that mean the MS=magic sword?

What this would mean for both LoZ placements.

early LoZ: OOX can no longer be used to explain it's reappearance.
late LoZ: Needs an explanation on how it got from the pedistal in the lost woods, to an old man's cave.

The master sword hilt changes with time. The design is always different. This is why we can't take art as canon.
It is both gold and silver in LttP.
It is purple in OoT and in TP.
It is blue in TWW. And the hilt sems to be able to close itself too.


Now, if you take a look at the Magic Sword from LoZ, and in the same weapon in SCII; you'll notice that the entire sword is blue and the design is completely different.

But, of course, the sword from AoL is completely different.

But please notice that they didn't change the name in neither the VC version of LoZ nor the CE version. It is still called Magic Sword there. And they did change the name Gannon to Ganon, which means they could have renamed the sword if they really wanted to...

Originally Posted by Skylark

I never said directly after, Just that loz/aol can't be after LA.

Why not?

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

regardless, the first picture indicates that Trident does indeed equal Blue Ganon. I think Ganon was means to wield a trident in the Original, but they scrapped it for gameplay reasons or something else.

Wathever the original idea was, they didn't add the trident. That means that either he has the weapon hidden during LoZ (which is a fanfic and purely peculative) or that he does not have it (which is what the game shows).

And again, if the wanted Ganon to wield the trident in LoZ, they could have made it for the CE and the VC versions...

Originally Posted by Skylark

The box was NoA only. I do know that these were drawn by an japanese artist according to the site.

Definitely not only NoA. It's also stated in the NoJ version and all the rest of the promotional material from japan. Including those terrible live-action commercials.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

^ Yes, but here's a thing with the magic sword... since it's so hard to make out any details, people looked at the colors. The Magic Sword's colors don't match up with the Master Sword's.

Then of course, the MS has been through a number of minor redesigns, so that point might be moot...

This isnot the problem. The color changed with time too

Originally Posted by Skylark

originally the magic sword looking nothing like the MS. But in this it is almost identical except it is more goldish brown. Which seems to be because of the style.

Even if they wanted to make the magic sword the Ms when they released those images, they re-retconned that when they didn't rename the sword in CE LoZ and in VC LoZ...

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

Besides, the Magic Sword is an optional item, the Magic Sword needn't even be used in LoZ canon, for all we know.

The same is valid for the OoX MS...

Originally Posted by Skylark

^true, but he starts off with it is AoL. Showing that it was canon to get it.

This is the sword from AoL:


We assume that it is the same sword because it starts shooting bolts already. I don't think it's ever stated in game that it is the same sword.

Still, as the art changes with time (as with the MS), I don't see a reason to why it wouldn't be the same sword...

.Not only does this **** up the LoZ placement, but it also ****s up the LA placement.

...I have a few requests.

1. Can someone show me the translated manual text for LA?
2. Can someone tell me what moment in LoZ that artwork is depicting?
3. Can someone tell me why the hell there are two triforces in that picture?
4. Can someone tell me if the Trident art is for ALttP or LoZ?

Untill those four questions/requests have been answered, I'm thinking official art as not Canon.

Originally Posted by Smertios

What do you mean?

Ollathir at some point (I dont know if he still does) uses the same scenario as FSA to have Ganon back for LoZ. How can someone get the trident in the DW?

The master sword hilt changes with time. The design is always different. This is why we can't take art as canon.
It is both gold and silver in LttP.
It is purple in OoT and in TP.
It is blue in TWW. And the hilt sems to be able to close itself too.

This one looks just like the alltp style, which at the time of release, it was the only style of the master sword.

Now, if you take a look at the Magic Sword from LoZ, and in the same weapon in SCII; you'll notice that the entire sword is blue and the design is completely different.

That's like using brawl as evidence.

But, of course, the sword from AoL is completely different.

But the art from this guide is more recent than the art from the AoL manual. That is the point of this thread. Does it override it?

But please notice that they didn't change the name in neither the VC version of LoZ nor the CE version. It is still called Magic Sword there. And they did change the name Gannon to Ganon, which means they could have renamed the sword if they really wanted to...

That is a point that I can buy.

Why not?

IF this guide is to be taken as canon, it is explaining the LoZ storyline in order to catch the player up with the series. Now, why would they explain events that happen after what you are doing? Story telling isn't done that way. There are pictures such as these in both the alltp and LA guide.

Wathever the original idea was, they didn't add the trident. That means that either he has the weapon hidden during LoZ (which is a fanfic and purely peculative) or that he does not have it (which is what the game shows).

And again, if the wanted Ganon to wield the trident in LoZ, they could have made it for the CE and the VC versions...

1. While he doesn't have it ingame More recent source than the original game have it.
2. The CE and VC versions are just ports. They changed nothing in-game. The only fixed "Gannon" in the text such as in the manual and such.

that point works for the "magic sword" name. Because it is still in the manual. However, since nothing is changed graphically in either release. Only changes in the manual can really be considered as evidence.

Definitely not only NoA. It's also stated in the NoJ version and all the rest of the promotional material from japan. Including those terrible live-action commercials.

alright

The same is valid for the OoX MS...

The slight difference is that in AoL Link has it at the begining. Telling the player he got it in LoZ.

This is the sword from AoL:


We assume that it is the same sword because it starts shooting bolts already. I don't think it's ever stated in game that it is the same sword.

Still, as the art changes with time (as with the MS), I don't see a reason to why it wouldn't be the same sword...

I guess it would depend on if these images are canon or not. Which is what I made this thread for.

1. Can someone show me the translated manual text for LA?
2. Can someone tell me what moment in LoZ that artwork is depicting?
3. Can someone tell me why the hell there are two triforces in that picture?
4. Can someone tell me if the Trident art is for ALttP or LoZ?

1. I don't know where the translations for LA are, I only have loz and aol.
2. The first one is before the final blow on Ganon. The second is after rescuing zelda
3. Remember at the time of LoZ? there were only two triforces. Well, the artist interpreted it differently. We know that they don't actually look like that. So it doesnt matter.
4. The trident art is refering to LoZ, but appears in the alltp players guide.

If it makes any consolation I think the topic of this thread should more or less be "Are players guides Canon?".

If they are LoZ/OoX is Canon etc.......FUCK!!!!! Stupid official art...

BRAIN BLAST!

Sorry.

ALright I have the OoT players guide with me. It retells the events of both ALttP and LoZ, so unless LoZ and ALttP come before OoT.......then the original intent WAS ALttP-LoZ.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

BRAIN BLAST!

Sorry.

ALright I have the OoT players guide with me. It retells the events of both ALttP and LoZ, so unless LoZ and ALttP come before OoT.......then the original intent WAS ALttP-LoZ.

Can you give scans? Or can at least quote it? I remember having that guide as a kid and it never said that. Besides. Just because it retells that it doesnt make it the original intent. It could be in either order (alltp-loz or loz-alltp). And therefore it would just nullify my arguement that the retelling of LoZ offers as a "background story"