Calendar Awards Forum Leaders List Members List FAQ
Advertisement

Reply
$ LinkBack Thread Tools
 
  #101 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 01:53 PM
Smertios Smertios is a male Brazil Smertios is offline
Guardian Dragon
Send a message via ICQ to Smertios Send a message via AIM to Smertios Send a message via Yahoo to Smertios Send a message via Skype™ to Smertios
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Beyond the Beautiful Horizon
View Posts: 2,256
Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
AoL BS = Neutral.
Ganon being alive = Neutral if Ganon has the Trident in LoZ, Erimlark Skygaurd if he doesn't.
Ganon's titles = Neutral if Ganon doesn't have the Trident in LoZ, Erimlark Skygaurd if He has the Trident.
Geography= Ollatios Smerthir

You know that I and Ollathir have different timelines, right?

Anyway
AoL BS= more neutral than that is impossible
Ganon being alive= works for me, as he does have the trident in Oox Still, I don't believe the trident is needed for ressurection...
Titles= also neutral if we go by the trident=YnM idea...
Geography= us

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
Actually if yami no maou = has trident. Then we have titles if he doesn't have it.
The first case works for both of us, the second only for you...

Quote:
TMC's map just goes up to the north mountain range, and the "sky view" is misleading. We don't know how high link is in the sky or how big the landmass is. More than what we see on TMC's map can be there. However, FSA causes a problem.
It doesn't if TMC Hyrule is that island in the ocean
Also, considering the position of the castle in TMC map, I'd say that those mountains you see in the northern horizon could easily be what became Death Mountain from FSA-LttP, so the ocean would be to the north...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecove View Post
The point is that you either have Ganon being alive, or Ganon's titles. You can't have both however.
I have both

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecove View Post
That being said then, ALttP-LoZ has absolutely no evidance for Ganon OR his titles.......
Again, I do have enough evidence to support my titles' explanation and to support a ressurection after LttP.

Quote:
Official art seems to imply LoZ-ALttP
Official art also contradicts itself, though

Quote:
Geography seems to imply ALttP-LoZ
definitely

Quote:
But Ganon and continuity seem to conect to PH-LoZ.................
definitely no

Ganondorf is still human after TWW and is human before taking the trident in FSA. Nothing there hints for he to have become demon Ganon between those 2 games.

That said, we need less assumption for TWW---FSA---LoZ than to TWW---LoZ---FSA...

Quote:
So unless SoM and/or Ollathir cangive me an explenation for Ganon's titles.....then I'm back with PH-LoZ!
Just find one timeline and stick to it, for god's sake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
It is also the newest design of the "magic sword" that LoZ has.
Except for the fact that they didn't rename the magic sword in the new version of LoZ. And they did rename the flute ocarina in the newest version of LttP!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
^well, most of the people in this debate do believe it goes into the trident. So I didn't think I need to add in the "most likely"
FSA says
there is a soul in the trident
you become the king of darkness when you get it
It belonged to an ancient demon who was resurrected

All point to OoX Ganon.
LttP does not say at any point that the soul is in the trident...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
^The word also translates as vessel. That along with being said a spirit is in it.
And it could also be translated as 'weapon'. What makes more sense for a trident to be? a vessel or a weapon?

Let's annalyse:
1. Vessel: something to store something else. Like a jar. We can put sand into a jar. Now let's put sand into a trident... I can't do that, can you?
2. Weapon: something made to hurt or damage someone or something else. Like a sword. We can stab someone with a sword. Now let's try it with a trident. Wow! It works! Who would have imagined?

Point being: 'weapon' is a better translation than 'vessel'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Goron Moron View Post
I have a solution.

*Cracks knuckles to write fanfic.*

The Master Sword stayed within Ganondorf's stone head, but was eventually removed from his skull somehow. Whether it be because of the Zora Elder or the Savage Corp, we'll have no idea. Free from the Master Sword's stone curse, Ganondorf was 'revived' and somehow found a way to the surface.

Without the ToP, Ganondorf was reduced to a mere male Gerudo. Eventually he finds his way to FSA's Hyrule and with no other hope in life, decides to go to its desert with the intention of ruling his people again. And if there was already a male there, he would simply overthrow him.

And the Gerudo women hate him because...

A) Ever since Ganondorf in OoT was defeated and sealed, the Gerudo women finally realized how evil he was and changed their ways. I'd be a bit wary too if some guy named Ganondorf just randomly showed up.

B) Oh snap, he killed our King and is now taking over the throne. Dang you Ganon!!!

....Yeah, I'm not being very serious here. It has no evidence whatsoever.
Exactly what I believe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral View Post
If there are conflicting translations, can we get both translations in here, and not just Jumbie's? Jumbie says it is a device, someone else says it is a vessel.
And someone else says t's a weapon, which is what a trident is in RL...

Quote:
Pine:
I'm sure you will like it back on the winning team.
PH - LoZ placement should be called the Skyral timeline!
How long do you think that will last? I say two months

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecove View Post
I don't have a definitive placement for LoZ at the moment but I thought I'd dropin here and tell everyone that official art has been proved not to be Canon by myself. Look in SKylarks thread.
Good sense. I like that
__________________
Theorizing
ZU -- ZI -- ZL -- ZD
Reply With Quote
  #102 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 01:58 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is online now
(◕‿◕✿)
Send a message via AIM to theunabletable
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norwalk, Southern California
View Posts: 4,376
Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
Zelda no Video is a documentary about AST That doesn't prove anything
God damn it. I really hate LA. (Legends Alliance forums)
Last Edited by theunabletable; 01-30-2009 at 01:58 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #103 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:05 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zelda Theorizing
View Posts: 6,435
Re: Back to the old debate

In regards to whether or not the FSA Trident houses a spirit [without referencing OoX indications]:

A: It has the power to turn whoever it touches into the Yami no [Ma]ou, which is a title that only Ganon has ever born, and when touched by FSA Ganondorf, he turns into blue pig-monster Ganon. Why would this be if it doesn't house Ganon's spirit?

B: It says on its inscription that it bestows the "powers of darkness" on its weilder. The Japanese phrase used there is a specific one that's only other mention is in Twilight Princess. In Twilight Princess Midna tells us that Ganon is the only one who has these "powers of darkness" [until he shares them with Zant]. If Ganon is the only one with such power, how can the Trident possess that power without housing Ganon's spirit?
__________________
Nintendo's Missed Opportunity: Four Swords DS


Voted Best Zelda Theorist Summer 2008, Winter 2008, and Summer 2009
Voted Most Knowledgeable of Zelda Winter 2008.
Voted Most Dedicated Theorist Summer 2009


ZeldaInformer | Forums | Bombers Notebook | The Bombers | Resources
Reply With Quote
  #104 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:15 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
Spiral Theorist
Send a message via AIM to Skylark
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Florida
View Posts: 2,128
Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
Sorry to say this, but you are the one who has to prove that LttP Ganon has his soul in the trident. LttP never states so, so we need no evidence for that.

You also have to give evidence that the trident is indeed needed for the ressurection. As far as i know, all that is needed is a yorishiro (be it the trident or the ashes). AoL and OoX prove that there are different ways of calling ganon's soul back.
Alltp Ganon = FSA Ganon. If the soul is in the trident for whatever reason (OoX or seperate backstory) we are never told of the spirt leaving the trident.

The trident is needed because the soul is still in it. I know there are other ways. But those other ways wouldn't work if his soul is already in a vessel. Otherwise FSA wouldn't have happened as it did.

Quote:
OoX [b]has/b] the trident...
I know. But he is referenced to as daimou before getting the trident, then he is resurreceted and claims his new title. but, that doesn't matter anymore. Since the art is actually referring to LoZ, he has tthe trident in that game. So that explanation doesn't work for me anymore.

Quote:
This would be true if it wasn't for the fact that the devs made sure to include the 'land grows bigger' line in TWW. That alone proves geographical intent...
Which we don't know the scale of the land in LoZ/AoL.
We dont know how high Link is in TMC
The only thing that messes it up is the map in FSA not having land past Death mountain.

Quote:
Prove it. I have more evidence to support that YnM=Ganon with the trident...
LoZ art. Judging from the response from my thread, most people consider that art canon. So just having the trident can't make you Yami no maou. There is more to it than that.

That like a king having the title great sun king (made up) beacuse of actions he did in his life and has some special sword. Then his succesor comes along and gets the sword and claims the same title? Doesn't make sense.

Quote:
But LttP never states that his soul was in the trident in the first place. that means the devs didn't intend that when they made the game...
So what? It says so in FSA, which is obviously before alltp. Stuff doesn't just reset in between each game.

Quote:
A spirit of a past demon?
Name me demons of importance other than Ganon.


Quote:
LttP does not say at any point that the soul is in the trident...
For the last time, it doesn't have to. FSA does it for us.

Quote:
Point being: 'weapon' is a better translation than 'vessel'.
I would agree if there you know, wasn't a spirit in it.
__________________
Even if we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth, the feelings that were left behind will open the door! Even if the infinite universe were to go against us, our burning blood will cut through fate! We'll break through heavens and dimensions! We'll show you our path through force! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?

Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

Last Edited by Skylark; 01-30-2009 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #105 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:17 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zelda Theorizing
View Posts: 6,435
Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
BECAUSE NOTHING WAS CHANGED IN-GAME! ONLY THINGS IN THE MANUAL HAD ANY SORT OF CHANGE! .....sorry.
GANNON

That is all.
__________________
Nintendo's Missed Opportunity: Four Swords DS


Voted Best Zelda Theorist Summer 2008, Winter 2008, and Summer 2009
Voted Most Knowledgeable of Zelda Winter 2008.
Voted Most Dedicated Theorist Summer 2009


ZeldaInformer | Forums | Bombers Notebook | The Bombers | Resources
Reply With Quote
  #106 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:20 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
Spiral Theorist
Send a message via AIM to Skylark
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Florida
View Posts: 2,128
Re: Back to the old debate

^That wasn't in-game. That was in the manual. I don't remember them Saying Ganon at all in the game.
__________________
Even if we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth, the feelings that were left behind will open the door! Even if the infinite universe were to go against us, our burning blood will cut through fate! We'll break through heavens and dimensions! We'll show you our path through force! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?

Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

Reply With Quote
  #107 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:21 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
Theorist of two sides
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario
View Posts: 8,038
Re: Back to the old debate

Alright I'm neutral again.

If somebody knows where to get AST downloads, then I think I might be able to decide my placement in this war.
__________________

Best Theorist Fall 2007, Summer 2011 ; Most Devoted Theorist Summer 2010, Winter 2011, Summer 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnorv
You see, Pine, you and I - we're the superheroes of ZU.
Reply With Quote
  #108 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:24 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zelda Theorizing
View Posts: 6,435
Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
^That wasn't in-game. That was in the manual. I don't remember them Saying Ganon at all in the game.
It's in-game too.
When the start screen comes up, don't press anything, just wait for a while. It brings up a screen that tells you "MANY YEARS AGO PRINCE THEIVES GANON STOLE THE TRIFORCE WITH POWER" or something like that. They fixed the spelling of Ganon [and I HOPE the grammar xD] at least in the VC version. Not sure about the GBA though.
__________________
Nintendo's Missed Opportunity: Four Swords DS


Voted Best Zelda Theorist Summer 2008, Winter 2008, and Summer 2009
Voted Most Knowledgeable of Zelda Winter 2008.
Voted Most Dedicated Theorist Summer 2009


ZeldaInformer | Forums | Bombers Notebook | The Bombers | Resources
Reply With Quote
  #109 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:26 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
Spiral Theorist
Send a message via AIM to Skylark
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Florida
View Posts: 2,128
Re: Back to the old debate

Hmm, well. I played it on the GC, and I never left it on the title screen. So no idea.
__________________
Even if we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth, the feelings that were left behind will open the door! Even if the infinite universe were to go against us, our burning blood will cut through fate! We'll break through heavens and dimensions! We'll show you our path through force! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?

Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

Reply With Quote
  #110 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:31 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zelda Theorizing
View Posts: 6,435
Re: Back to the old debate

YouTube - Legend of Zelda (GBA) Intro and Path to Dungeon 9
__________________
Nintendo's Missed Opportunity: Four Swords DS


Voted Best Zelda Theorist Summer 2008, Winter 2008, and Summer 2009
Voted Most Knowledgeable of Zelda Winter 2008.
Voted Most Dedicated Theorist Summer 2009


ZeldaInformer | Forums | Bombers Notebook | The Bombers | Resources
Reply With Quote
  #111 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:32 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
Spiral Theorist
Send a message via AIM to Skylark
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Florida
View Posts: 2,128
Re: Back to the old debate

...well damn.
__________________
Even if we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth, the feelings that were left behind will open the door! Even if the infinite universe were to go against us, our burning blood will cut through fate! We'll break through heavens and dimensions! We'll show you our path through force! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?

Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

Reply With Quote
  #112 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:40 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
Theorist of two sides
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario
View Posts: 8,038
Re: Back to the old debate

...What does this prove?
__________________

Best Theorist Fall 2007, Summer 2011 ; Most Devoted Theorist Summer 2010, Winter 2011, Summer 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnorv
You see, Pine, you and I - we're the superheroes of ZU.
Reply With Quote
  #113 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:41 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zelda Theorizing
View Posts: 6,435
Re: Back to the old debate

That the Magical Sword is not the Master Sword.
They re-released LoZ for the GBA, and changed bits of text here and there [as well as the manual] but they left the Magical Sword as is.
__________________
Nintendo's Missed Opportunity: Four Swords DS


Voted Best Zelda Theorist Summer 2008, Winter 2008, and Summer 2009
Voted Most Knowledgeable of Zelda Winter 2008.
Voted Most Dedicated Theorist Summer 2009


ZeldaInformer | Forums | Bombers Notebook | The Bombers | Resources
Reply With Quote
  #114 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:52 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
Theorist of two sides
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario
View Posts: 8,038
Re: Back to the old debate

...oookay.

But doesnt the official art prove otherwise?
__________________

Best Theorist Fall 2007, Summer 2011 ; Most Devoted Theorist Summer 2010, Winter 2011, Summer 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnorv
You see, Pine, you and I - we're the superheroes of ZU.
Reply With Quote
  #115 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zelda Theorizing
View Posts: 6,435
Re: Back to the old debate

In-game evidence from 2004 > Official art from 1994
__________________
Nintendo's Missed Opportunity: Four Swords DS


Voted Best Zelda Theorist Summer 2008, Winter 2008, and Summer 2009
Voted Most Knowledgeable of Zelda Winter 2008.
Voted Most Dedicated Theorist Summer 2009


ZeldaInformer | Forums | Bombers Notebook | The Bombers | Resources
Reply With Quote
  #116 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:56 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
Theorist of two sides
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario
View Posts: 8,038
Re: Back to the old debate

...Sweet.

I guess this means that official art doesn't even really matter then?
__________________

Best Theorist Fall 2007, Summer 2011 ; Most Devoted Theorist Summer 2010, Winter 2011, Summer 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnorv
You see, Pine, you and I - we're the superheroes of ZU.
Reply With Quote
  #117 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 02:58 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zelda Theorizing
View Posts: 6,435
Re: Back to the old debate

I've always been iffy on the subject, but surely in-game evidence should take precedence over art even if you believe the art to be canon.
__________________
Nintendo's Missed Opportunity: Four Swords DS


Voted Best Zelda Theorist Summer 2008, Winter 2008, and Summer 2009
Voted Most Knowledgeable of Zelda Winter 2008.
Voted Most Dedicated Theorist Summer 2009


ZeldaInformer | Forums | Bombers Notebook | The Bombers | Resources
Reply With Quote
  #118 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 03:01 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is online now
(◕‿◕✿)
Send a message via AIM to theunabletable
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norwalk, Southern California
View Posts: 4,376
Re: Back to the old debate

@Pinecove. I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a patched AST rom on Zeldalegends.
Reply With Quote
  #119 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 03:02 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
Theorist of two sides
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario
View Posts: 8,038
Re: Back to the old debate

Well here goes......

*www.Zeldalegends.com*
__________________

Best Theorist Fall 2007, Summer 2011 ; Most Devoted Theorist Summer 2010, Winter 2011, Summer 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnorv
You see, Pine, you and I - we're the superheroes of ZU.
Reply With Quote
  #120 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-30-2009, 03:11 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is online now
(◕‿◕✿)
Send a message via AIM to theunabletable
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norwalk, Southern California
View Posts: 4,376
Re: Back to the old debate

zeldalegends.net not .com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
back, debate


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Advertisement

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:56 PM.

Copyright © 2014 Zelda Universe - Privacy Statement -