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  #21 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:28 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

I relate the trident to the zodiac stones from final fantasy tactics. They work extremely similar. When someone got the stone, they transformed into the form of whatever demon was in it, and that demon took them over. However, when killed, the demon was still in the stone. According to the back story of the game, they were sealed in the stones.

The two concepts are pretty much identical. I know FFT=/= zelda. But I don't think that the soul would have just left the trident without hinting it.

Quote:
How many ports of LoZ have there been without any changes? Oh except for the NoA version correcting Gannon.

Well that doesn't even matter with the soulsplit theory.
2, maybe 3 I think.

The soul split theory makes no sense with a late placement.

Quote:
Really? I was always under the impression that it implied that when FSA Ganondorf touched the trident he became the Yami no Maou. I didn't think he kept the Yami no Maou in his trident...
After discovering the trident was the vessel, I see it more as a possession thing. By claiming the trident they become the "sacrifice" for ganon to be reborn. All the other effects of the OoX ritual were still in place as Ganon's soul was called back. They just needed a new body.
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Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

Last Edited by Skylark; 01-29-2009 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:29 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

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Originally Posted by Sign of Madness View Post
How many ports of LoZ have there been without any changes?
VC, GBA
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  #23 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:31 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

So you would rather believe that FSA Ganon swings around a previous Ganon in his trident. Or that Ganon actually becomes the Yami no Maou so there is no soul in the trident (which is basically what it says anyway).

If you touch a trident and become a Yami no Maou because of it then the soul wouldn't be in the trident anymore. It'd be in the Yami no Maou's new body.
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  #24 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:32 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

Hahaha, I just got a funny thought.
If Ganon's soul is still in the Trident in aLttP, he threw his soul away half way through the fight xD
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  #25 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:32 PM
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Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
But what evidence do you have to say that his soul was still in the trident in LttP to begin with? If you can't provide evidence for that, I certainly don't need to provide evidence to how his soul left the trident after LttP...
Why would he keep the Trident through FSA and LttP if it didn't have his soul in it? The Trident doesn't have any specific powers, it was just the vessel for his soul. In fact, for his soul to no longer be connected to it, it would likely need to be destroyed.
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  #26 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:34 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

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Originally Posted by Erimgard View Post
Hahaha, I just got a funny thought.
If Ganon's soul is still in the Trident in aLttP, he threw his soul away half way through the fight xD
I thought about that.

I have two answers.
1) his soul is safe there, no big deal. He can pick it up after the fight. He changes his attack pattern afterwards too. The trident was slowing him down.
2) After death a minion could use it to find another "sacrifice" Thus bringing him back to life.

However, I don't think it would survive the destruction of the dark world, at least I don't think someone else could come across it.
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Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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  #27 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:34 PM
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Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral View Post
Why would he keep the Trident through FSA and LttP if it didn't have his soul in it? The Trident doesn't have any specific powers, it was just the vessel for his soul. In fact, for his soul to no longer be connected to it, it would likely need to be destroyed.
It was also a kickass weapon that can summon fire keese.
And if he was so emotionally attached to the Trident, why'd he throw it away?
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  #28 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:35 PM
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Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
Then explain all the other ports of LoZ with no changes.

Ganon only revived himself in AST, he had the trident.
In AoL and OoX he needed outside assitance. Guess what, he didn't have it yet in OoX, and we are still debating AoL.



We are told of his soul going into the trident. We are not told that it ever left. What evidence is there to even hint that it is no longer there?
But AST is not canon. It is a story that follows LoZ BS in its own timline...
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  #29 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:36 PM
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Re: Back to the old debate

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Originally Posted by Smertios View Post
But AST is not canon. It is a story that follows LoZ BS in its own timline...
Uh no.
Whether you consider it canon or not, it's supposed to take place 6 years after aLttP.
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  #30 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:37 PM
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Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
So you would rather believe that FSA Ganon swings around a previous Ganon in his trident. Or that Ganon actually becomes the Yami no Maou so there is no soul in the trident (which is basically what it says anyway).

If you touch a trident and become a Yami no Maou because of it then the soul wouldn't be in the trident anymore. It'd be in the Yami no Maou's new body.
Why not, it is a weapon afterall?

It never says the soul left the trident. It says whoever gets it becomes the Yami no Maou. They become Ganon. Ganon isn't a status or a rank. It is a person (well demon technically.)

Quote:
If you touch a trident and become a Yami no Maou because of it then the soul wouldn't be in the trident anymore. It'd be in the Yami no Maou's new body.
Prove it.
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Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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  #31 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:38 PM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

As Sky said for the throwing away, a saftey measure so he can be revived.

The problem is, the Trident likely didn't survive the DW transforming back into the SR.


.... wait a sec. Saying the Trident did have his soul still connected to it, and then saying Ganon probably threw it away so he can be revived again helps their timeline (in a sense).
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  #32 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:39 PM
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Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
.... wait a sec. Saying the Trident did have his soul still connected to it, and then saying Ganon probably threw it away so he can be revived again helps their timeline (in a sense).
Only if they can explain how it got out of the dark world.
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Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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  #33 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:39 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
Why would he keep the Trident through FSA and LttP if it didn't have his soul in it? The Trident doesn't have any specific powers, it was just the vessel for his soul. In fact, for his soul to no longer be connected to it, it would likely need to be destroyed.
Have you seen the way he swings that thing around? It is his weapon.

Really all you're doing is saying fanfic. This whole bit about Ganon is all about opinion. I think when Ganon touched the trident in FSA the soul left the trident and went into the new Ganon body. Otherwise when Ganon threw away the trident in LttP he would have changed back into his old form.
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  #34 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:42 PM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

Eh.
This can help you, so I'm going to agree with you so that you can't use it as an excuse for a ressurection in the future.

Trident = Weapon with no soul anymore.
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  #35 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:42 PM
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Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
Have you seen the way he swings that thing around? It is his weapon.

Really all you're doing is saying fanfic. This whole bit about Ganon is all about opinion. I think when Ganon touched the trident in FSA the soul left the trident and went into the new Ganon body. Otherwise when Ganon threw away the trident in LttP he would have changed back into his old form.
Yeah, I see no reason why it can't be both a weapon and a vessel. He didn't have a problem with it in OoX.

Fanfic? Don't make me laugh SoM. It is speculation yes, but it has evidence. More than you have.
If the spirt went into the human, where did the human spirit go?
So, if Ganon stopped touching his trident for one second he transforms? That makes no sense. besides he couldn't revert, he was in the DW with no moon pearl.
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Even if we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth, the feelings that were left behind will open the door! Even if the infinite universe were to go against us, our burning blood will cut through fate! We'll break through heavens and dimensions! We'll show you our path through force! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?

Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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  #36 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:44 PM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

But having no more soul is an easier/simpler explanation. Really, he wouldn't throw it away if it had his soul in it. Ganon would have known there would be no way it could have survived.

This isn't even timeline relevant! Come on people, lets talk timeline.
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Last Edited by Viral; 01-29-2009 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:49 PM
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Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral View Post
But having no more soul is an easier/simpler explanation. Really, he wouldn't throw it away if it had his soul in it. Ganon would have known there would be no way it could have survived.

This isn't even timeline relevant! Come on people, lets talk timeline.
The reason I believe it is timeline relevant is
-trident = Yami no maou. No matter where you place LoZ this is consistant.
-In AoL and OoX (games without trident) He needed a resurrection. With the soul in the trident a ceremony is not needed.
LoZ he doesn't have the trident this has two effects
soul in trident - needs the trident in game (doesn't have it, thus early placement)
soul not in trident - needs ceremony.

Now while the ceremony is possible, it fits better with it being used before the trident creation. Keeping the titles, and resurrection methods consistent. So, by proving that he doesnt have the trident, and that the soul is in it. Ganon in LoZ is extremely flawed.
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Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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  #38 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:51 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

Quote:
So, if Ganon stopped touching his trident for one second he transforms?
He touched the trident for one second and he transformed. If his new soul turned him into the Yami no Maou throwing that away would change him back.
Quote:
If the spirt went into the human, where did the human spirit go?
He let it take him over I guess. I don't see how it is that relevant.

Ganon can revive himself without the trident. He has the trident in LoZ anyway. He could split his soul to be alive in LoZ. Which would also explain the titles. Sorry but Ganon is neutral. I have 2 explanations and both of them work. One of them uses a theory that you use. It even explains why Ganon rejected the Daimaou title.

Now, since I've answered your questions, answer mine please. Why do 3 of the most recent games (TRR, tMC, FSA) all of which you place after LoZ show Hyrule as little more than an island or 2?
Last Edited by theunabletable; 01-29-2009 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:53 PM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

Please do tell SoM.

Edit:

@Sky: The otehr alternative for no Trident in LoZ is that it was created in the OoX ritual. But that is pretty unlikely.

Edit:

@SoM's edited post:
They are just that, New Games. The only reason we think AoL has a huge land mass is because Link (and everything else in-game) is so small. FSA (in-game) is pretty big, so why can't we assume that the island is pretty big as well? The only thing that makes it seem small is the fact that Hyrule castle is extremely huge.
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Last Edited by Viral; 01-29-2009 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-29-2009, 03:55 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Back to the old debate

Ganon wouldn't...un-transform [IT'S A WORD DAMMIT] by leting the Trident go because he also had the power of the Triforce.
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Last Edited by Erimgard; 01-29-2009 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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