The TMC BS

This doesn't have too much to do with the timeline, or at least the games in the timeline. There are a few timeline related things in it, but I'm not trying to start a big placement debate.

The TMC BS is a topic that I think has been sadly overlooked in theorizing. Perhaps because there isn't really any way to determine it's placement, and it doesn't matter much. Watching the TMC intro, where the BS is told, I thought of an interesting placement for it.

What if it took place during OoX, while Link was off in Labrynna and Holodrum? The thing that first brought this thought to my mind was this quote from TMC's intro...

Originally posted by TMC's Intro
A long, long time ago, when the world was on the verge of being swallowed by shadow...

That made me think of OoX, when Labrynna and Holodrum could be described as being on the verge of being swallowed by shadow.

The intro goes on to say that the Picori brought the Hero of Men a sword and a Golden Light. It always bothered me that the hero was not Link. It seemed to me that such a story should have Link at its center. This is another perk of having the TMC BS during OoX. Link is off in Holabrynnadrum, accounting for his curious absence during the BS.

Those are the two somewhat obvious things that make the TMC BS happening during OoX attractive. Link's absence is explained and the darkness in the BS is reminiscent of the darkness in Labrynna and Holodrum during OoX.

There are a few less obvious details that work nicely with this placement of the BS. The first is that, as far as I know, it isn't very clear how the third flame was lit in OoX. The first two were lit by the evil power in Labrynna and Holodrum as a result of Onox and Veran's meddlings. I think the third one was probably supposed to have been lit in the third Oracle game, which was never made. As such, its lighting is not very clear in the linked ending.

I think it makes sense for it to have been lit as a result of the darkness threatening Hyrule during the TMC BS. As I've said, the darkness in the BS and the darkness in Labrynna and Holodrum is similar.

The second less obvious perk is the sheer number of references to OoX in TMC. There's the White Sword, Din and Nayru, the names of the Oracle games on the books in the library...lots of things. It would be perfect to have the BS of TMC actually taking place during OoX, especially when it could better explain the lighting of the third flame.

The last advantage of this placement is the hat tradition. It only matters with my placement of LoZ and AoL though.

I think it's clear from TMC that it is the first time that a hero of Hyrule wears a green hat. It's kind of the hat's origin story. With the current placement of TMC, it would be its origin for New Hyrule, similar to the way the first Zelda of New Hyrule would be referred to as the first generation Zelda.

With LoZ and AoL after the founding of New Hyrule but before TMC, the situation with the hat in TMC loses its value.

OoX would seem to create the same problem. OoX Link had a green hat. However, he was not the hero of Hyrule. It could be surmised that he would have been recognized as a hero upon returning to Hyrule, but...

with the Hero of Men saving Hyrule while Link is away, Link would not be recognized as the Hero of Hyrule. Think of it this way. A hero saves your land from darkness. Than a mere child sails in on a ship saying he saved two lands threatened by the same darkness. In any case, the Hero of Men would be seen as the real hero in Hyrule.

1) The darkness in Hyrule in the TMC BS is similar to in Labrynna and Holodrum.
2) Link's absence would be explained.
3) The lighting of the third flame would be better explained.
4) It would fit in nicely with all the other references to OoX in TMC.
5) The hat tradition in TMC makes more sense, if only with my placement of LoZ and AoL.

Given those five points, I offer OoX as a likely time for the TMC BS to have taken place, since no placement can really be proven or disproven. What do you think?

~Ollathir

Well I have 1 thing against this.

Link... The three (Triforce) on your left hand symbolize power, wisdom
and courage-- these are the mark of the hero who is fated to appear
when peace crumbles in Hyrule. With the Essences of Nature and Time and
the courage you possess, you have fought back the powers of evil! The
guidance of the Triforce has made you into this legendary hero! Thank
you, Link.

That implies that he saved hyrule himself.

Originally Posted by Sign of Madness

Well I have 1 thing against this. That implies that he saved hyrule himself.

Hmm. Remember, originally, Labrynna and Holodrum were meant to be parts of AoL Hyrule. However, TMC itself seems to have retconned that in referring to them as different lands. Quite convenient.

Pinecove showed me a quote a long time back. I'm almost positive it was in OoS.

Thank you. You've come all the way from Hyrule, correct? Pleased to
meet you. I am Nayru. I've been very worried after hearing that
Labrynna would face many evil troubles.

That implies that Labrynna is pretty far away from hyrule.

Also something funny I noticed. In OoA they actually say Holodrum more than Labrynna.

It was never stated, but the maps of Lab/Holo fit almost perfectly on the AoL map.
I don't have a picture though. :/

Originally Posted by Lord Insizor

It was never stated, but the maps of Lab/Holo fit almost perfectly on the AoL map.
I don't have a picture though. :/

Just because OOX was supossed to be a remake of AOL in the begining of the develpment. But labrynaa and holodorum aren't part of hyrule kingdom.

MC-OOX

LOL XDDD

I'd like to see a valid comparision of those maps.

Oh and a small note the 3rd flame was lit bc of Zelda being kidnapped or something. I barely remember it either.

This map stuff is great, but does anyone actually have an opinion on where the TMC BS should be?

IIRC the tMC BS says that the humans were warring or something like that. Could tMC BS take place right after Zelda is put to sleep?
I know so little of the tMC BS. Do you know where I could find the full BS all together?

Nice Ollathir.

On the topic of OoX Link I found something in my players guide...

When the disapearence of two gifted oracles, turns the magical worlds of Holodrum and Labrynna upside down, the citisens call on Hylian legend Link, to set things strait.

This implies OoX Link to be a former hero... perhaps LoZ's?

If that's the case, then that practically confirmes LoZ-OoX-TMC.

An NoA player guide? And are players guides actually canon?
That also pretty much contradicts what the manual says. The manual says that Link came into the triforce room because he felt a force coming from the room. Or something like that. Then the triforce sends him on the quest.

Pinecove, you're going to have to check that to canonize it. If you can' it's good.

SoM, the link in this thread will take you to the TMC intro, where the BS is. Everything we know about it is there.

Originally Posted by Sign of Madness

An NoA player guide? And are players guides actually canon?
That also pretty much contradicts what the manual says. The manual says that Link came into the triforce room because he felt a force coming from the room. Or something like that. Then the triforce sends him on the quest.

I thought it said that Link was just "Lol, look at that castle. I am so curious, I must take a peek inside." ...Unless the citizens were praying to the Goddesses for assistance, and they spoke to Link through the Triforce.... I dunno.

I don't see why the hat tradition has to come into place. Couldn't people just have remembered the journeys of OoT Link and TWW Link? >_>

Edit: Yeah, but. Where is the FULL BS? You know the one that Link and Elzo discover in the Element Shrine.

So this brings the question...are players guides Canon or not?

Ollathir, I'm neither for you or against you for LoZ placement.

I don't see what the big deal about someone being "Link." Link is not one guy. He is not an entity. It is just a code name, given by nintendo. There is a reason why you can name him. Each Link is different. Anything saying "it's not a link." is pretty dumb. "Link" is just a guy who becomes a hero.
/end rant.

Ok, on the topic at hand.

I think anything having to do with the hat tradition is garbage. Mainly because, other than TWW. There is no tradition mentioned. Assuming there is a traditon, you must assume every hero after TMC wore green knowing they would be a hero, thus being able to tell the future. It's just a recycled character design.

Other than that, it makes sense. It explains the third flame, and most of the references. However. the hero in OoX, saved two countries. Why wouldn't the triforce inform him of the dangers elsewhere instead of in Hyrule. Seemed like for them to happen at the same time, we would need a third game.

Originally Posted by The Goron Moron

Edit: Yeah, but. Where is the FULL BS? You know the one that Link and Elzo discover in the Element Shrine.

I don't even know anything about that. Sorry.

Have you played TMC Ollathir?

GM: The only extra thing for that is "And the light force enshrined in Princess Zelda shone throughout the lands"...nothing big.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

Have you played TMC Ollathir?

GM: The only extra thing for that is "And the light force enshrined in Princess Zelda shone throughout the lands"...nothing big.

Well I'm just the kind of person who likes extra details. >_>

Originally Posted by Ollathir

That made me think of OoX, when Labrynna and Holodrum could be described as being on the verge of being swallowed by shadow.

Kind of like the world in 99% of the games.

as far as I know, it isn't very clear how the third flame was lit in OoX.

"When Zelda, the hope of the people, vanishes, this land will be stricken with despair."

Seems pretty obvious to me. =/

The TMC backstory is too self-contained for it to really matter whether it is connected to another game. There is no defined villain, no defined/relevant resolution aside from that the Picori Sword and the golden Force appeared at that time. As these elements have not appeared in any pre-TMC prequel thus far, it's unlikely that the events are connected to an already-existing game.

I dont think it matters too much where TMC BS is. It could be during OoX, could be after. Could even be during LoZ/AoL (if you believe those go before TMC).
But just to play it safe, I'll stick with it being just prior to TMC.

Originally Posted by Ollathir

2) Link's absence would be explained.

There doesnt always have to be a hero. Look at the WW BS to see that.