Calendar Awards Forum Leaders List Members List FAQ
Advertisement

Reply
$ LinkBack Thread Tools
 
  #1 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 01:53 PM
Missing Inaction Missing Inaction is a male United States Missing Inaction is offline
a theorist of a different color
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZU theorizing
View Posts: 1,863
The TMC BS

This doesn't have too much to do with the timeline, or at least the games in the timeline. There are a few timeline related things in it, but I'm not trying to start a big placement debate.

The TMC BS is a topic that I think has been sadly overlooked in theorizing. Perhaps because there isn't really any way to determine it's placement, and it doesn't matter much. Watching the TMC intro, where the BS is told, I thought of an interesting placement for it.

What if it took place during OoX, while Link was off in Labrynna and Holodrum? The thing that first brought this thought to my mind was this quote from TMC's intro...

Quote:
Originally posted by TMC's Intro
A long, long time ago, when the world was on the verge of being swallowed by shadow...
That made me think of OoX, when Labrynna and Holodrum could be described as being on the verge of being swallowed by shadow.

The intro goes on to say that the Picori brought the Hero of Men a sword and a Golden Light. It always bothered me that the hero was not Link. It seemed to me that such a story should have Link at its center. This is another perk of having the TMC BS during OoX. Link is off in Holabrynnadrum, accounting for his curious absence during the BS.

Those are the two somewhat obvious things that make the TMC BS happening during OoX attractive. Link's absence is explained and the darkness in the BS is reminiscent of the darkness in Labrynna and Holodrum during OoX.

There are a few less obvious details that work nicely with this placement of the BS. The first is that, as far as I know, it isn't very clear how the third flame was lit in OoX. The first two were lit by the evil power in Labrynna and Holodrum as a result of Onox and Veran's meddlings. I think the third one was probably supposed to have been lit in the third Oracle game, which was never made. As such, its lighting is not very clear in the linked ending.

I think it makes sense for it to have been lit as a result of the darkness threatening Hyrule during the TMC BS. As I've said, the darkness in the BS and the darkness in Labrynna and Holodrum is similar.

The second less obvious perk is the sheer number of references to OoX in TMC. There's the White Sword, Din and Nayru, the names of the Oracle games on the books in the library...lots of things. It would be perfect to have the BS of TMC actually taking place during OoX, especially when it could better explain the lighting of the third flame.

The last advantage of this placement is the hat tradition. It only matters with my placement of LoZ and AoL though.

I think it's clear from TMC that it is the first time that a hero of Hyrule wears a green hat. It's kind of the hat's origin story. With the current placement of TMC, it would be its origin for New Hyrule, similar to the way the first Zelda of New Hyrule would be referred to as the first generation Zelda.

With LoZ and AoL after the founding of New Hyrule but before TMC, the situation with the hat in TMC loses its value.

OoX would seem to create the same problem. OoX Link had a green hat. However, he was not the hero of Hyrule. It could be surmised that he would have been recognized as a hero upon returning to Hyrule, but...

with the Hero of Men saving Hyrule while Link is away, Link would not be recognized as the Hero of Hyrule. Think of it this way. A hero saves your land from darkness. Than a mere child sails in on a ship saying he saved two lands threatened by the same darkness. In any case, the Hero of Men would be seen as the real hero in Hyrule.

1) The darkness in Hyrule in the TMC BS is similar to in Labrynna and Holodrum.
2) Link's absence would be explained.
3) The lighting of the third flame would be better explained.
4) It would fit in nicely with all the other references to OoX in TMC.
5) The hat tradition in TMC makes more sense, if only with my placement of LoZ and AoL.

Given those five points, I offer OoX as a likely time for the TMC BS to have taken place, since no placement can really be proven or disproven. What do you think?

~Ollathir
__________________
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
I Corinthians 10:31
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 02:05 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
(◕‿◕✿)
Send a message via AIM to theunabletable
3DS ID: 3050-7697-1416
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norwalk, Southern California
View Posts: 4,442
Re: The TMC BS

Well I have 1 thing against this.
Quote:
Link... The three (Triforce) on your left hand symbolize power, wisdom
and courage-- these are the mark of the hero who is fated to appear
when peace crumbles in Hyrule. With the Essences of Nature and Time and
the courage you possess, you have fought back the powers of evil! The
guidance of the Triforce has made you into this legendary hero! Thank
you, Link.
That implies that he saved hyrule himself.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 02:25 PM
Missing Inaction Missing Inaction is a male United States Missing Inaction is offline
a theorist of a different color
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZU theorizing
View Posts: 1,863
Re: The TMC BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign of Madness View Post
Well I have 1 thing against this. That implies that he saved hyrule himself.
Hmm. Remember, originally, Labrynna and Holodrum were meant to be parts of AoL Hyrule. However, TMC itself seems to have retconned that in referring to them as different lands. Quite convenient.
__________________
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
I Corinthians 10:31
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 02:34 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
(◕‿◕✿)
Send a message via AIM to theunabletable
3DS ID: 3050-7697-1416
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norwalk, Southern California
View Posts: 4,442
Re: The TMC BS

Pinecove showed me a quote a long time back. I'm almost positive it was in OoS.
Quote:
Thank you. You've come all the way from Hyrule, correct? Pleased to
meet you. I am Nayru. I've been very worried after hearing that
Labrynna would face many evil troubles.
That implies that Labrynna is pretty far away from hyrule.

Also something funny I noticed. In OoA they actually say Holodrum more than Labrynna.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 05:05 PM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
Spirit of Seasons
Send a message via AIM to Viral
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
View Posts: 1,657
Re: The TMC BS

It was never stated, but the maps of Lab/Holo fit almost perfectly on the AoL map.
I don't have a picture though. :/
__________________

Check out ZeldaInformer.

Bombers Articles: (Zelda Theorising)
The Master Sword Exposed (out of date due to SS, some images missing)
The Oocca: Engineers of Hyrule
The Great War of Ikana
The Mysteries of Malladus: The Demon King's Story

I'll be updating some articles and providing new content at Zelda Informer over December/January (2011/2012)

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 06:13 PM
Smallville Boy 69 Mexico Smallville Boy 69 is offline
Mexicuter
3DS ID: 0748-3331-3394
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: México
View Posts: 5,718
Re: The TMC BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Insizor View Post
It was never stated, but the maps of Lab/Holo fit almost perfectly on the AoL map.
I don't have a picture though. :/
Just because OOX was supossed to be a remake of AOL in the begining of the develpment. But labrynaa and holodorum aren't part of hyrule kingdom.

MC-OOX

LOL XDDD
__________________
Last Edited by Smallville Boy 69; 01-11-2009 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:22 PM
Axiomist Axiomist is offline
Hylian Puzzle Creator and Counselor
Send a message via Skype™ to Axiomist

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
View Posts: 401
Re: The TMC BS

I'd like to see a valid comparision of those maps.

Oh and a small note the 3rd flame was lit bc of Zelda being kidnapped or something. I barely remember it either.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:49 PM
Missing Inaction Missing Inaction is a male United States Missing Inaction is offline
a theorist of a different color
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZU theorizing
View Posts: 1,863
Re: The TMC BS

This map stuff is great, but does anyone actually have an opinion on where the TMC BS should be?
__________________
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
I Corinthians 10:31
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 07:52 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
(◕‿◕✿)
Send a message via AIM to theunabletable
3DS ID: 3050-7697-1416
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norwalk, Southern California
View Posts: 4,442
Re: The TMC BS

IIRC the tMC BS says that the humans were warring or something like that. Could tMC BS take place right after Zelda is put to sleep?
I know so little of the tMC BS. Do you know where I could find the full BS all together?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 08:18 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
Theorist of two sides
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario
View Posts: 8,038
Re: The TMC BS

Nice Ollathir.

On the topic of OoX Link I found something in my players guide...

Quote:
When the disapearence of two gifted oracles, turns the magical worlds of Holodrum and Labrynna upside down, the citisens call on Hylian legend Link, to set things strait.
This implies OoX Link to be a former hero... perhaps LoZ's?

If that's the case, then that practically confirmes LoZ-OoX-TMC.
__________________

Best Theorist Fall 2007, Summer 2011 ; Most Devoted Theorist Summer 2010, Winter 2011, Summer 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnorv
You see, Pine, you and I - we're the superheroes of ZU.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 08:41 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
(◕‿◕✿)
Send a message via AIM to theunabletable
3DS ID: 3050-7697-1416
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norwalk, Southern California
View Posts: 4,442
Re: The TMC BS

An NoA player guide? And are players guides actually canon?
That also pretty much contradicts what the manual says. The manual says that Link came into the triforce room because he felt a force coming from the room. Or something like that. Then the triforce sends him on the quest.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 09:31 PM
Missing Inaction Missing Inaction is a male United States Missing Inaction is offline
a theorist of a different color
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZU theorizing
View Posts: 1,863
Re: The TMC BS

Pinecove, you're going to have to check that to canonize it. If you can' it's good.

SoM, the link in this thread will take you to the TMC intro, where the BS is. Everything we know about it is there.
__________________
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
I Corinthians 10:31
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 09:34 PM
Commander GorMor Canada Commander GorMor is offline
HARK HARK
Wii U ID: Dr-Reggie (PM me first) 3DS ID: 3153-4263-2807 (PM me first)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 36 years in space
View Posts: 7,280
Re: The TMC BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sign of Madness View Post
An NoA player guide? And are players guides actually canon?
That also pretty much contradicts what the manual says. The manual says that Link came into the triforce room because he felt a force coming from the room. Or something like that. Then the triforce sends him on the quest.
I thought it said that Link was just "Lol, look at that castle. I am so curious, I must take a peek inside." ...Unless the citizens were praying to the Goddesses for assistance, and they spoke to Link through the Triforce.... I dunno.

I don't see why the hat tradition has to come into place. Couldn't people just have remembered the journeys of OoT Link and TWW Link? >_>

Edit: Yeah, but. Where is the FULL BS? You know the one that Link and Elzo discover in the Element Shrine.
__________________

[Art Thread] [Tumblr][Sig by .Hog]
Last Edited by Commander GorMor; 01-11-2009 at 09:35 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 09:36 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
Theorist of two sides
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario
View Posts: 8,038
Re: The TMC BS

So this brings the question...are players guides Canon or not?

Ollathir, I'm neither for you or against you for LoZ placement.
__________________

Best Theorist Fall 2007, Summer 2011 ; Most Devoted Theorist Summer 2010, Winter 2011, Summer 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnorv
You see, Pine, you and I - we're the superheroes of ZU.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 09:43 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
Spiral Theorist
Send a message via AIM to Skylark
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Florida
View Posts: 2,128
Re: The TMC BS

I don't see what the big deal about someone being "Link." Link is not one guy. He is not an entity. It is just a code name, given by nintendo. There is a reason why you can name him. Each Link is different. Anything saying "it's not a link." is pretty dumb. "Link" is just a guy who becomes a hero.
/end rant.

Ok, on the topic at hand.

I think anything having to do with the hat tradition is garbage. Mainly because, other than TWW. There is no tradition mentioned. Assuming there is a traditon, you must assume every hero after TMC wore green knowing they would be a hero, thus being able to tell the future. It's just a recycled character design.

Other than that, it makes sense. It explains the third flame, and most of the references. However. the hero in OoX, saved two countries. Why wouldn't the triforce inform him of the dangers elsewhere instead of in Hyrule. Seemed like for them to happen at the same time, we would need a third game.
__________________
Even if we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth, the feelings that were left behind will open the door! Even if the infinite universe were to go against us, our burning blood will cut through fate! We'll break through heavens and dimensions! We'll show you our path through force! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?

Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 09:59 PM
Missing Inaction Missing Inaction is a male United States Missing Inaction is offline
a theorist of a different color
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZU theorizing
View Posts: 1,863
Re: The TMC BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Goron Moron View Post
Edit: Yeah, but. Where is the FULL BS? You know the one that Link and Elzo discover in the Element Shrine.
I don't even know anything about that. Sorry.
__________________
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
I Corinthians 10:31
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 10:01 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
Theorist of two sides
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario
View Posts: 8,038
Re: The TMC BS

Have you played TMC Ollathir?

GM: The only extra thing for that is "And the light force enshrined in Princess Zelda shone throughout the lands"...nothing big.
__________________

Best Theorist Fall 2007, Summer 2011 ; Most Devoted Theorist Summer 2010, Winter 2011, Summer 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnorv
You see, Pine, you and I - we're the superheroes of ZU.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 10:38 PM
Commander GorMor Canada Commander GorMor is offline
HARK HARK
Wii U ID: Dr-Reggie (PM me first) 3DS ID: 3153-4263-2807 (PM me first)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 36 years in space
View Posts: 7,280
Re: The TMC BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecove View Post
Have you played TMC Ollathir?

GM: The only extra thing for that is "And the light force enshrined in Princess Zelda shone throughout the lands"...nothing big.
Well I'm just the kind of person who likes extra details. >_>
__________________

[Art Thread] [Tumblr][Sig by .Hog]
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-11-2009, 11:58 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
Fabulous
Send a message via AIM to LegendofLex
Join Date: Apr 2004
View Posts: 20,981
Re: The TMC BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollathir
Quote:
A long, long time ago, when the world was on the verge of being swallowed by shadow...
That made me think of OoX, when Labrynna and Holodrum could be described as being on the verge of being swallowed by shadow.
Kind of like the world in 99% of the games.

Quote:
as far as I know, it isn't very clear how the third flame was lit in OoX.
"When Zelda, the hope of the people, vanishes, this land will be stricken with despair."

Seems pretty obvious to me. =/

The TMC backstory is too self-contained for it to really matter whether it is connected to another game. There is no defined villain, no defined/relevant resolution aside from that the Picori Sword and the golden Force appeared at that time. As these elements have not appeared in any pre-TMC prequel thus far, it's unlikely that the events are connected to an already-existing game.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 01-12-2009, 06:45 AM
Ŧҽҽᶄɑƴ Ŧҽҽᶄɑƴ is a male United Kingdom Ŧҽҽᶄɑƴ is offline
Banned User
Send a message via Skype™ to Ŧҽҽᶄɑƴ
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Island
View Posts: 20,843
Re: The TMC BS

I dont think it matters too much where TMC BS is. It could be during OoX, could be after. Could even be during LoZ/AoL (if you believe those go before TMC).
But just to play it safe, I'll stick with it being just prior to TMC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollathir
2) Link's absence would be explained.
There doesnt always have to be a hero. Look at the WW BS to see that.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tmc


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Advertisement

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12 AM.

Copyright © 2014 Zelda Universe - Privacy Statement -