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Old 01-06-2009, 06:30 AM
Ceallach Ceallach is a male United States Ceallach is offline
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The Divine Prank

There has been a lot of discussion on this topic lately, so I decided to create a thread about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Sages
He was the leader of a band of thieves who invaded Hyrule in the hopes of establishing dominion over the Sacred Realm.
He was known as a demon thief, an evil-magic wielder renowned for his ruthlessness...
But he was blind...
In all of his fury and might, he was blind to any danger, and thus was exposed, subdued, and brought to justice.
Yet...
By some divine prank, he, too, had been blessed with the chosen power of the gods.
His abiding hatred and lust for power turned to purest malice...
Perhaps that evil power has been passed on to Zant...
What is the divine prank?

The simple answer to the question is of course that Ganondorf acquired the Triforce of Power.

However, many people argue that the answer is not so simple.

At the end of OoT, Zelda sends Link back in time. But it is debated as to exactly what time she sent him back. (Please note that this thread is not about this subject).

Now, some say that Zelda sent Link back to a point before he first entered the Sacred Realm. Thus, Ganondorf would never have touched the Triforce in the Child Timeline. In TP however, Ganondorf does have the Triforce of Power. Some say that the divine prank was the fact that Ganondorf somehow received the ToP without ever touching it.

I disagree with this, as there is no logical justification for this to happen according to OoT's explanation of how the Triforce is acquired.

I believe that the divine prank refers to the fact that Link's spirit was sealed by the Master Sword.

According to OoT, this and only this is how one acquires the Triforce:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda
The Temple of Time is the entrance through which you can enter the Sacred Realm from our world.
But the entrance is sealed with a stone wall called the Door of Time.
And, in order to open the door, it is said that you need to collect three Spiritual Stones.
And another thing you need...is the treasure that the Royal Family keeps along with this legend...
The Ocarina of Time!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauru
The Master Sword-- the evil-destroying sword that you pulled out of the Pedestal of Time-- was the final key to the Sacred Realm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheik
If you would seek the sacred triangle, listen well...
The resting place of the sacred triangle, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that
reflects what is in the heart...
the heart of one who enters it...
If an evil heart, the Realm will become full of evil; if pure, the Realm will
become a paradise.
The Triforce...the sacred triangle...
it is a balance that weighs the three forces:
Power, Wisdom and Courage.
If the heart of the one who holds the sacred triangle has all three forces in
balance, that one will gain the True Force to govern all.
But, if that one's heart is not in balance, the Triforce will separate into three parts:
Power, Wisdom and Courage.
Only one part will remain for the one who touched the Triforce...the part
representing the force that one most believes in.
If that one seeks the True Force, that one must acquire the two lost parts.
Those two parts will be held within others chosen by destiny, who will bear the Triforce mark on the backs of their hands.

This is Zelda's plan to acquire the Triforce:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda
We must not let Ganondorf get the Triforce!
I will protect the Ocarina of Time with all my power!
He shall not have it!
You go find the other two Spiritual Stones!
Let's get the Triforce before Ganondorf does, and then defeat him!
Unfortunately, her plan doesn't work:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheik
Seven years ago, Ganondorf, the King of Thieves, used the door you opened in the Temple of Time and entered the Sacred Realm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauru
Though you opened the Door of Time in the name of peace...
Ganondorf, the Gerudo King of Thieves, used it to enter this forbidden Sacred Realm!
He obtained the Triforce from the Temple of Light, and with its power, he
became the King of Evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impa
On that day seven years ago, Ganondorf suddenly attacked...
And Hyrule Castle surrendered after a short time.
However, he did not acquire the True Force:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheik
The Triforce separated into three parts. Only the Triforce of Power remained in Ganondorf's hand.
In TP, this is what the Sages meant when they said that he "had been blessed with the chosen power of the gods."

Now, Link defeated Ganon, and the Sages sealed him in the Sacred Realm. Of course, this only happened in the Adult Timeline.

On the Child Timeline, we're not quite sure exactly what happened.

Honestly, I don't feel there is any reason to assume that Zelda sent Link back to a point before he entered the Sacred Realm, and that Ganondorf "somehow" acquired the ToP anyway, because that's not how one acquires the Triforce.

But back on subject, let's look at Zelda's plan again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda
We must not let Ganondorf get the Triforce!
I will protect the Ocarina of Time with all my power!
He shall not have it!
You go find the other two Spiritual Stones!
Let's get the Triforce before Ganondorf does, and then defeat him!
Why didn't it work? One reason and one reason only: because Link's spirit was sealed by the Master Sword.

The plan was for Link to get the three spiritual stones, get the Ocarina of Time, and enter the Sacred Realm. He did all of that.

Link was supposed to touch the Triforce. He was supposed to acquire the True Force. But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda
As long as you had the Ocarina in your possession, I thought Ganondorf could never enter the Sacred Realm, but...
Something I could never expect happened...
After you opened the door of time, the Master Sword sealed you away in the Sacred Realm...
Your spirit remained in the Sacred Realm...
And then the Triforce fell into Ganondorf's hands.
He went on to invade the Sacred Realm...
Ganondorf had become the Evil King, and the Sacred Realm became a world of evil.
All of this is an unfortunate coincidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda
All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule was my doing...
I was so young...
I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm.
Unfortunate coincidence; divine prank.

Now even though all of those quotes are said in the Adult Timeline, all of them refer to that day seven years ago, which also happened in the Child Timeline, so they are still relevant.

Thus, I believe that Link was supposed to acquire the Triforce, but "by some divine prank," Ganondorf touched it first (and it split).

One cannot rationally explain why Link didn't acquire the Triforce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauru
The Master Sword is a sacred blade which evil ones may never touch...
Only one worthy of the title of "Hero of Time" can pull it from the Pedestal of Time....
However, you were too young to be the Hero of Time...
Therefore, your spirit was sealed here for seven years.
And now that you are old enough, the time has come for you to awaken as the Hero of Time!
Think about it. If Link had acquired the True Force, he could've made his wish, and Ganondorf would've been defeated right then and there. He would've saved the day, and Hyrule would've entered into a golden age of peace. But instead, he fell asleep and never touched the Triforce. This is because he was destined to become the Hero of Time (which required him to be an adult).

Thus, destiny is the only answer. Zelda calls it an unfortunate coincidence, but it was in the hands of destiny. Therefore, it was divine. It was also unintented and very bad, so the Sages refer to it as a prank. No one, not even Zelda (who came up with the original plan), expected that to happen.

I believe that the divine prank refers to the sealing of Link's spirit by the Master Sword.

This means I also believe that Zelda sends Link back to a time after he entered the Sacred Realm. (I know these two subjects are closely related, and I know I could've posted this in another thread, but I felt this particular subject deserved its own).

So, what exactly do you believe the Sages are referring to when they say "divine prank?" Please try not to turn this into a Before/After Theory thread.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:53 AM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

This is the first time I have seen an idea like this formally written up. So well done there.

However, I disagree. I believe the Divine Prank refers to Ganondorf getting the Triforce during the execution because Link came back in time with the ToC.

Yes, the Triforce is only obtainable by entering the Sacred Realm, but that already happened, in a sense.
Link had the ToC as an adult when Zelda sent him back, but when he goes to see Zelda again as a child, she doesn't recognise him. That scene is clearly the same as the first time they meet. Which doesn't make sense if he was sent back to a time after pulling the Master Sword.

Anyway, Link still has the ToC in that scene. Which means he was sent back, but he kept his piece of the Triforce. And then, as he had one piece, the other went to their respective owners (which is what I believe the divine prank is).

As for your theory, Rauru didn't seem all to surprised that Link had to sleep for 7 years. I think he knew it would happen (I can't back that up with a quote though, as my text dump site is currently down).

Also, Ganondorf had no idea about the ToP in the execution cut scene. He was as surprised as the Sages, and he didn't even know how to use it.

Still, although I have my opinion, I like your theory. It works well if you believe Link come back after pulling the MS.
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Last Edited by Viral; 01-06-2009 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:20 AM
Tribunal Power Tribunal Power is a male United States Tribunal Power is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

I think both Link falling asleep in the Sacred Realm and Ganondorf surviving the execution because of the Triforce of Power are both pretty good examples of "diving pranks".

However, I can't agree with the idea that Ganondorf recieved the Triforce of Power when he was executed. As was said before, that's just not how it happens. I believe he still had it, and that this particular divine prank was that he never lost it after being defeated. After all, if he had lost it, Link and Zelda would have had all three pieces, and they could have wished him away forever. But that didn't happen, because Ganondorf retained the Triforce of Power, even after being sealed in the Sacred Realm.

Of course, we already know Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom in TP, and Link has the Triforce of Courage. So it's safe to assume that, while OoT Link and Zelda passed their sacred relics to their descendants, Ganondorf retained his.

When he is executed, and he looks surprised, I believe that is because he is as surprised as the Sages when he realizes he still has it. And he takes advantage of it before the Sages can do anything about it (not that there was a whole lot they could have done).

For the record, I do believe that the "divine prank" mentioned in TP is Link falling asleep until he comes of age in the Sacred Realm. If that hadn't happened, everything would have been just peachy. But Ganondorf retaining the Triforce of Power after being defeated with the Master Sword sounds like a pretty good divine prank, too.

Those dang goddesses must have a sick sense of humor.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:42 AM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

Since "divine prank" in common usage means merely "ironic or unfortunate coincidence."

For example, a blog used the phrase "divine prank" as follows: "It is surely a divine prank that the largest industry in the largest city of the state is aircraft manufacturing. Kansas, flyover country, some call it. The winds that whip the wheatfields lift those aluminum tubes into the air and . . . away."

Here the phrase is used to describe a scenario in which a largely rural, largely self-contained and self-sufficient state also has a very large aircraft manufacturing industry- also is so very connected to the rest of the country, indeed the world. Here it is used to indicate irony.

Elsewhere the phrase is used thus: "Twins confound us ‘almost as if they were a divine prank designed to undermine our sense of individuality and specialness in the world’." Despite all the efforts we can make to make ourselves feel special and unique, twins demonstrate that we are really so very similar.

Zelda labels the fact that Link was put to sleep by the Master Sword and sealed away in the Sacred Realm as the "unfortunate coincidence" that allows Ganondorf to gain the Triforce of Power. In the context of TP, the actual mechanics of the "divine prank" are not explained. I think given the usages of the phrase shown above, there is no explicit reason to believe that it is in fact "divine" at all- why can't it be due to the same scenario in OoT, which was described in much the same light?

After all, the sages introduce Ganondorf's possession of the Triforce of Power only as cause for his survival and need to be sealed, not necessarily as a chronological descriptor, "and then he got the Triforce of Power." Had he not possessed the Triforce of Power, they would have been successful. It is for that reason that they call his possession of it a "divine prank," not that he was actually endowed with it by the gods at that very moment.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:10 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

I'd post the link to the ZI Bombers Debate Lex and I did on this, but ZI is still down :/

In short, I believe that Ganondorf, Link, and Zelda were the chosen ones on the adult timeline after Ganondorf split the Triforce. The Goddesses are outside of time, and thus not effected by the split timeline. Since Ganondorf, Link, and Zelda are the same physical entities on both the child and adult timelines, and since the Goddesses are not affected by the split, they once again granted the Triforce pieces to the three as the chosen ones.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:55 PM
Prince Dodongo United_States Prince Dodongo is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

I think it's pretty straightforward. The Sages did not expect Ganondorf, of all people, to be blessed with a piece of the Triforce. When Ganondorf and his army forced their way into the Temple, he must have touched the Triforce and had it split. The Sages didn't know that would happen, so they were surprised when his divine power manifested during his execution. The term "Divine Prank" is in reference to the irony that a thief like Ganondorf would have divine power.

As for the idea of the Triforce transcending time, I don't think so. I think that when Link went back in time at the end of OoT, his piece of the Triforce was left behind, along with all his other stuff, and was then split into eight as referenced in The Wind Waker. The Triforce Piece that Ganondorf has in Twilight Princess was granted to him when he and his army stormed Hyrule. He must have forced his way into the Temple and got as far as touching the Triforce before the Sages caught up with him.
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:49 PM
rhakiath rhakiath is a male United States rhakiath is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

the divine prank refers to Ganondorf being blessed with the CHOSEN power of the gods. he was the predestined holder of the ToP which split when link returned to the past.

the sages should have known about the split legend, especially the shadow sage, and would not have been shocked to see the triforce split. However, for ganondorf to acquire the ToPthrough predestination despite his evil heart would come as a shock.

also he did not get the triforce at the execution, it was the first time it was used/discovered by ganondorf.




this quote supports the link being frozen thing:

As long as you had the Ocarina
in your possession, I thought
Ganondorf could never enter the
Sacred Realm, but...
something I could never expect
happened...

but I disagree, since this would only make sense in TP but it is in OoT. It was seen as a divine prank by zelda perhaps, but is long over by the time TP occurs. it has little to do with how ganondorf gets the triforce in TP.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:52 PM
Melchizedek Melchizedek is a male Australia Melchizedek is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimgard
I'd post the link to the ZI Bombers Debate Lex and I did on this, but ZI is still down :/
That's no excuse not to link for the time being.

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Old 01-06-2009, 07:03 PM
theunabletable theunabletable is a male United States theunabletable is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

Quote:
I'd post the link to the ZI Bombers Debate Lex and I did on this, but ZI is still down :/
Offtopic but when is ZI gonna be back up?
Anyways, I'm not sure what to believe. I'll repost my beliefs another time.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:10 PM
Melchizedek Melchizedek is a male Australia Melchizedek is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

ManInTheMoon said today:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManInTheMoon
We're shooting for the new server, so all of ZI will go back up then (few days or so)
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:11 PM
Prince Dodongo United_States Prince Dodongo is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhakiath View Post
the divine prank refers to Ganondorf being blessed with the CHOSEN power of the gods. he was the predestined holder of the ToP which split when link returned to the past. .
Wait, why would it split when Link returns to the past. He no longer has his piece of the Triforce (unless you're suggesting that he brings his back form the future, in which case the Adult Timeline has no Triforce of Courage), and nobody's touched the Triforce yet.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:16 PM
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Re: The Divine Prank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
I believe that the divine prank refers to the fact that Link's spirit was sealed by the Master Sword.
But if that was the case, then Ganondorf should have obtained the Triforce of Power just like he did in OoT. Thus, the Sages should have no reason to believe that Ganondorf doesn't have a piece of the Triforce. However, the TP Sages are shocked and horrified to discover that he holds a piece during the execution. They don't seem to have expected that in the slightest.

YouTube - Zelda Twilight Princess - Ganondorf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
Link was supposed to touch the Triforce. He was supposed to acquire the True Force.
But he didn't, so the Sages shouldn't be surprised that Ganondorf has a piece of the Triforce.

In the Split Confirmation interview, Aonuma said that the execution scene of TP happened "several years" after the Child Timeline ending of OoT. Since Ganondorf had been ruling Hyrule for seven years in OoT, that means that he left the Sacred Realm before a year had passed. If the way was shut behind him, he'd soon notice it and prepare accordingly. With no element of surprise and Ganondorf aware of the fact that he held the ToP, the TP Sages would have absolutely no way to defeat Ganondorf and thus the execution scene wouldn't even be possible.

Also, in the Japanese texts of OoT, Zelda said that she'd make up for the specific mistake of getting Link involved in her plans by sending him back in time. If she sent him back to a point where he had already been deeply involved in her plans, she wouldn't be making up for it at all. If, however, Zelda sent Link back to a point where he hadn't been involved yet, she would be making it up to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
So, what exactly do you believe the Sages are referring to when they say "divine prank?"
I think they mean that Ganondorf has a piece of the Triforce when he never entered the Sacred Realm and claimed it.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:20 PM
Triforce of the Gods Triforce of the Gods is a male United States Triforce of the Gods is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Dodongo View Post
Wait, why would it split when Link returns to the past. He no longer has his piece of the Triforce (unless you're suggesting that he brings his back form the future, in which case the Adult Timeline has no Triforce of Courage), and nobody's touched the Triforce yet.
IF you watch the ending of OoT, Link has the Triforce mark on his hand after going back in time. The Goddesses, being out of time, granted him the Triforce of Courage of the Child Timeline and the other two went to Zelda and Ganondorf.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:15 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

eh, I'm against the divine intervention method. As the goddesses don't really do much outside the flood. it doesn't make sense they would allow Ganondorf to have it on purpose. Also, it would be the first time "divine prank" has ever been literal.
I don't have a solid answer for it. Just that when Link came back in time, he still had the ToC, so the other two split as well.
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Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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Old 01-06-2009, 11:41 PM
Smallville Boy 69 Mexico Smallville Boy 69 is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

Divine prank=Divine prank, nothing else.
Link,zelda and ganondor get the triforce when link was sended back in time by zelda,they get theire triforce piece without nobody entered into the SR and touched the triforce.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:07 AM
Thanatos-Zero Thanatos-Zero is a male Germany Thanatos-Zero is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triforce of the Gods View Post
IF you watch the ending of OoT, Link has the Triforce mark on his hand after going back in time. The Goddesses, being out of time, granted him the Triforce of Courage of the Child Timeline and the other two went to Zelda and Ganondorf.
That is correct. The ToC stayed in the AT, but was splitted in 8 parts by Zelda's timetravel spell, like it was stated by Daphne, however he didn't know how it happened.
The ending in the CT shows on Link's left hand the ToC. It is not known how Link got it, but it cannot be denied about it's existence outside the sacred realm.
Since it is claimed by the sages as a prank, we have no other clue, so lets take it as canon, until a new Zelda title prove the opposite.
I have my own version of this prank.

Farore: He has done so well, I shall reward him with my power as a luck charm.

Din: You know what you are doing, right? We originaly intended that everyone can gain access to our triangle, if they have proved themselfes.

Naryu: If you do, our triangle will split because of its imbalance.
That could bring again havoc into the realm of mortals by your chosen one Din.

Din: I have chosen him because he was the strongest, what would happen, was another thing. He could have cultivated his homelands with our power, but the opposite happend.

Farore: Yeah, I know the causalities, but because my chosen one could do it, he can do it again. I'm sure of it.

Din: So it is decided.

Nayru: So let us see, what will happen.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:00 AM
Alcidus Alcidus is a male Australia Alcidus is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

im going to agree with this theory on the divine prank, at the end of OoT link is seen walking out of the master sword chamber, first jumping off the pedestal just like when he comes back form being an adult, but if TP is a hundred or so years after OoT, how is Ganondorf still alive, unless he either went into the evil realm again (cant remember the place where he gets trapped and breaks out) or he passes his triforce part down just like link (otherwise why would the TP link have the triforce mark on his hand)
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:13 AM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

Ganondorf is alive in the child ending of OoT because he was never sealed. Link went back to before Ganondorf went into the SR.
In theory, Link and Zelda would have warned about Ganondorf, and he would have been arrested.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:36 PM
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Re: The Divine Prank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcidus View Post
im going to agree with this theory on the divine prank, at the end of OoT link is seen walking out of the master sword chamber, first jumping off the pedestal just like when he comes back form being an adult, but if TP is a hundred or so years after OoT, how is Ganondorf still alive, unless he either went into the evil realm again (cant remember the place where he gets trapped and breaks out) or he passes his triforce part down just like link (otherwise why would the TP link have the triforce mark on his hand)
Twilight Princess is only about 50 years (possibly longer) after the events of Ocarina of Time, and in addition, Ganondorf's trial was immediately after being arrested in the child timeline.

My opinion about the "divine prank" is that it's exactly how it sounds. The goddesses gave Ganondorf the Triforce of Power, knowing that Link would defeat him and gain the three fragments, thus restoring peace to Hyrule.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:19 PM
Melchizedek Melchizedek is a male Australia Melchizedek is offline
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Re: The Divine Prank

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVE
Twilight Princess is only about 50 years (possibly longer) after the events of Ocarina of Time...
Interview with Eiji Aomuma:

Interviewer: When does Twilight Princess take place?

Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVE
My opinion about the "divine prank" is that it's exactly how it sounds. The goddesses gave Ganondorf the Triforce of Power, knowing that Link would defeat him and gain the three fragments, thus restoring peace to Hyrule.
That hasn't happened yet on the Child Timeline though!
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