The Affects of Weapons and Items of Power on Ganon(dorf)

If I could have made the title as long as I wanted, it would have been, "The Affects of Weapons on Ganon(dorf) and how their Affects are Affected by Items of Power. That uncut version of the title pretty much sums up what this thread (article) is about. This is a study of how different weapons affect Ganon. It also covers how the affects of thosee weapons change given the items of power possessed by Ganon(dorf) when they are used. For example, what happens when Ganon has this item of power and is destroyed by this weapon? What happens when he doesn't have that item of power? I'm analyzing all five of Ganon's deaths throughout the series to answer such questions. Off we go...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

LoZ

item(s) of power - Trident of Power; Triforce of Power
weapon(s) killed by - Silver Arrows
condition of body - pile of ashes

The items of power that Ganon possesses during his death in LoZ are debatable. I think he had the Trident based on the game's official art and the BS version of the game. I think he had the ToP inside his hand (like in other games where he has the ToP) and was not just holding it. In TWW, when Link gathers all eight shards of the ToC, it goes into his hand. Therefore, recieving a Triforce piece by physical means such as collecting its pieces or stealing it results in it going into your hand. Such is the case in LoZ.

We don't have another death to base anything on, so all we know from the LoZ death is that when Ganon has the ToP and the Trident, the SAs kill him and leave behind a pile of ashes.


ALttP

item(s) of power - none
weapon(s) killed by - Silver Arrows; Master Sword
condition of body - no remains

I say that Ganon had no items of power because he did not actually have the Trident on him at the moment he was killed. He hurls it away during the fight with Link.

There are a number of possible causes for the lack of ashes or any remains at all.

1) The MS was used in ALttP but not in LoZ.
2) Ganon had the ToP in LoZ but not in ALttP.
3) Ganon had the trident in LoZ but not in ALttP.

We can rule out the MS because it can't kill Ganon anyway. Quotes rom LoZ and ALttP say that the SAs are the only wepaon capable of killing Ganon. It's not a sure thing, but I think we can also rule out the trident because Ganon throws it away during the fight with Link, and I don't think he would do that if it could cause the affects of the SAs to be somewhat softened. It also just doesn't make sense for a weapon like the trident to do something like that. Whereas with the ToP, we know it to possess some immortality properties. It makes the most sense for the ToP to be the cause of the ashes in LoZ.


OoX

item(s) of power - Trident of Power
weapon(s) killed by - no special weapons
condition of body - no remains

Now we have another death in which no remains are left. I say that the MS was not used because it may or may not be. In the event that it is not, the affect on Ganon is the same, so it doesn't matter. The MS should be left out of this.

Quotes from both ALttP and LoZ,the first two games where Ganon dies, make it clear that the SAs are required to kill Ganon. In OoX, the SAs are not used, but Ganon is still killed. From this we can conclude that Ganon's body was weakened along with his mind. My theory is that both were weakened because of the sometimes one, sometimes two state of existance with Twinrova. This effectively invalidates whtever we might have deduced from the OoX death.


TWW

item(s) of power - none
weapon(s) killed by - Master Sword
condition of body - turned to stone

Just like in ALttP, Ganon was separated from his item of power before being killed. This time it was the ToP, rather than the trident.

It is important that he is in Ganondorf form, not Ganon. From OoT, we know that the ToP enables him to become Ganon. Either his being in human form or his lack of the ToP causes him to be able to be killed by the MS without the use of the SAs. It is strange that these are two such connected things. A few other instances can help us to determine how their connection and their affect works.

In ALttP, it is said that the SAs are required to kill Ganon, even though Link already has the MS. This means that the MS can not kill Ganon, even when he doesn't have the ToP.

So we know that the MS can not kill Ganon, regardless of the ToP.


TP

item(s) of power - Triforce of Power
weapon(s) killed by - Master Sword
condition of body - unknown

It should be noted that Ganondorf does not actually have the ToP when he dies. In fact, it had been keeping him alive, and then he died soon after it left him. Since it has a big part in what happens during the death though, I left it in.

In TP we see the immortality properties of the ToP in action. They keep Ganondorf alive when he is stabbed by the Sage of Water and when Link stabs him with the MS. He does not die until the ToP fades from his hand. This means that as well as being immune to the MS when in Ganon form, having the ToP while being in Ganondorf form protects him from the MS.


Conclusions
-The SAs are the only weapon capable of killing Ganon.
-The MS can kill Ganondorf.
-Having the ToP protecs Ganondorf from the MS.
-Having the ToP causes there to be remains of Ganon's body when he is killed by the SAs.


Hopefully that clears up questions involving Ganon's deaths that we have been trying to answer for a long time. Thanks for reading, and please comment on the information in the article.

~Ollathir

Nice. Very nice.

There doesn't seem to be anything wrong, and I'm glad you have seen the light with the Silver Arrows.

Question: What do you think happened to the ToP at the end of TP?

By your rationale, Ganondorf does not have the ToP in his TP death.
In aLttP, he hurls away his Tridnet before dying.
In TP, his ToP fades before dying.

At any lengths, I don't see how this answers any questions. It's just a categorization of what we pretty much already know.

In TWW, when Link gathers all eight shards of the ToC, it goes into his hand. Therefore, recieving a Triforce piece by physical means such as collecting its pieces or stealing it results in it going into your hand. Such is the case in LoZ.

Only after the gods deem him worthy enough to use it.

Quotes from both ALttP and LoZ,the first two games where Ganon dies, make it clear that the SAs are required to kill Ganon. In OoX, the SAs are not used, but Ganon is still killed. From this we can conclude that Ganon's body was weakened along with his mind. My theory is that both were weakened because of the sometimes one, sometimes two state of existance with Twinrova. This effectively invalidates whtever we might have deduced from the OoX death.

That is actually a pretty good reason for his mind to be weakened. Thought it was said the resurrection was not done properly because Zelda was not used, so i rather just assume that is what caused all the problems.

the one question about TP I still have is what causes the ToP to vanish. I'm leaning on the sols that empowered the MS. As they seem to have a "purifying" effect that the light arrows have. Which the light arrows were able to temporary harm Ganon. So possibly that effect + the MS + on ganondorf is enough to stop the ToP enough for him to die.

^
Yeah I'm with Sky.
Ganon's retardation was due to them not getting the main ingredient "the blood of an enemy".

Originally Posted by Lord Insizor

Nice. Very nice.

There doesn't seem to be anything wrong, and I'm glad you have seen the light with the Silver Arrows.

Question: What do you think happened to the ToP at the end of TP?

Thanks.

I wish I knew what happened to the ToP. There's just nothing to base any opinions on.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

By your rationale, Ganondorf does not have the ToP in his TP death.
In aLttP, he hurls away his Tridnet before dying.
In TP, his ToP fades before dying.

I should have mentioned that. Its presence keeps him alive, and then he dies as a result of its leaving. I said he had it because of its importance in keeping him alive. I'll make a note that he doesn't actually have it when he dies though.

At any lengths, I don't see how this answers any questions. It's just a categorization of what we pretty much already know.

Pretty much. I'm just clarifying everything and providing support so that everyone understands and agrees.

Originally Posted by Skylark

Only after the gods deem him worthy enough to use it.

Well, since they deem Ganondorf worthy of it in TP or OoT or whatever, they should do the same in LoZ. The only differenece is that in LoZ, Ganon has to get his hands on the ToP first.

That is actually a pretty good reason for his mind to be weakened. Thought it was said the resurrection was not done properly because Zelda was not used, so i rather just assume that is what caused all the problems.

Yeah, but the Twinrova thing could still apply. It's just an interesting thought.

the one question about TP I still have is what causes the ToP to vanish. I'm leaning on the sols that empowered the MS. As they seem to have a "purifying" effect that the light arrows have. Which the light arrows were able to temporary harm Ganon. So possibly that effect + the MS + on ganondorf is enough to stop the ToP enough for him to die.

That makes sense. Maybe I'll add something on that. I have to think about it first though.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

^
Yeah I'm with Sky.

What else is new?

Ganon's retardation was due to them not getting the main ingredient "the blood of an enemy".

The resurrection that would have happened in AoL would have been very different from the one in OoX.

If we are to go by the blood of an enemy method in Harry Potter, flesh of the servant and bone of the father would also be required. The reason those would not be needed in AoL is because Ganon's flesh and bones would be the ashes. The blood however, would evaporate rather than become ashes. That was why blood was needed.

If the same method was being used in OoX, Twinrova would not only need the blood of an enemy from Zelda, but also the flesh of the servant and the bone of the father. Since she doesn't use those, she's almost certainly using a different method and the blood of an enemy has nothing to do with it. A sacrifice is all that is needed.

Of course, I may be using Harry Potter too much, but I think the similarity with the blood of an enemy and the logical and scietific reason for the bone of the father anf flesh of the servant not being needed makes a lot of sense and provides support for the flesh/bone/blood method being the one used in AoL.

The OoX resurrection failed because Zelda was not used as the sacrifice. The blood factor, like from AoL does not seem to hold a case in OoX, as it seems to be a completely different ritual.

But that is open to interpretation. The point is that Ganon was not complete. He was not at the level of power as Ganon in LttP or LoZ was, and so he could be killed without the SA's or the MS.

As for the ToP, I don't believe it was the Sol's. They are effective against the Twili beats, but not really against Ganon. I think it would have been made more obvious.
I lean towards Zant taking it, but that holds just as little credibility as the Sol's idea. It's just me personal opinion.
Again, open to interpretation.

Even though this thread didn't introduce anything new, its nice to see all the information in one place, so everyone can agree on the subject.

If we are to go by the blood of an enemy method in Harry Potter, flesh of the servant and bone of the father would also be required

This isn't Harry Potter though.
The specifically mentioned required element is the blood of an enemy. They fail to get Link's in AoL, and they fail to get Zelda's in OoX, so they settle for Twinrova's in OoX's ending, thus the retardation.

Since you put LoZ/AoL at the end, you only have one failed attempt, but it still works. Without the blood of an enemy, Twinrova sacrificed themselves, and the result was a "close, but no cigar" Ganon.

@Erimgard
The flesh/bone/blood method of resurrection has been in fantasy for a very long time. It isn't specific to Harry Potter. I was only using Harry Potter as an example of its use.

I think the fact that only the blood is needed makes a lot of sense, as the blood wouldn't be in the ashes, but flesh and bone still would be. There's a lot of support for the argument that they are using the flesh/bone/blood method in AoL.

@Insizor
Yeah, we are told that Ganon is messed up because Zelda wasn't used. I'm just trying to figure out why Zelda not being used messed him up. It doesn't really matter, but the Twinrova thing still makes sense.

You could make the argument for it, yes, but it's never stated. I just don't think one can assume that bones and flesh were necessarily needed.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

You could make the argument for it, yes, but it's never stated. I just don't think one can assume that bones and flesh were necessarily needed.

The fact that they need the blood of an enemy means that they are using the flesh/bone/blood method or just using Link's blood.

I just think it makes sense that if it is the flesh/bone/blood method, they don't use bone or flesh because Ganon's own bone and flesh would be in the ashes, while the blood wouldn't. It just works so well.

I know there's no way to prove they were using that method, but it's still cool how it works.

As Erimgard pretty much said, this is a nice little summary...

Originally Posted by Ollathir

I wish I knew what happened to the ToP. There's just nothing to base any opinions on.

I don't know if you've read it, but Insizor does offer a good theory on the matter here. I think this is the basis for TP's ending, which may help you form some opinions of the ToP's whereabouts!

Originally Posted by Melchizedek

As Erimgard pretty much said, this is a nice little summary...



I don't know if you've read it, but Insizor does offer a good theory on the matter here. I think this is the basis for TP's ending, which may help you form some opinions of the ToP's whereabouts!

Thanks.

I've read that, but I still don't know what I think about it. It doesn't even matter, so I never put much thought into figuring it out. When the next CT game comes out, I'll start caring.

Originally Posted by Ollathir

When the next CT game comes out, I'll start caring.

That's pretty good reasoning, I guess! That's if there is a CT game though!?!

Originally Posted by Melchizedek

That's pretty good reasoning, I guess! That's if there is a CT game though!?!

The state of the Triforce at the end of TP and Ganon's unknown condition after death makes the AT chronologies that we've developed better than anything we could think up for the CT. Pinecove has tried, and it doesn't work.

Even PH--LoZ is better than TP--LoZ.

Yeah... I know. It's going to be interesting to see where this rumored Zelda '09 is going to fit in or where Nintendo claims it will fit in!

Originally Posted by Melchizedek

Yeah... I know. It's going to be interesting to see where this rumored Zelda '09 is going to fit in or where Nintendo claims it will fit in!

I think it's just a TP sequel. It's taking them too long to be another sequel of TWW. A TP sequel is the only thing big enough to take them this long I think. It could be something completely new, but I don't think they're going to throw anything else into the mix. My prediction is that after whetever they're doing now, they'll make one more TWW sequel to connect the 2D games and then leave the AT as it is and go to work on the CT.

A: TP-LoZ works just fine if you throw out the AoL Backstory [which a lot of people do]
B: Miyamoto stated in an interview that this game will not be a TP sequel.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

A: TP-LoZ works just fine if you throw out the AoL Backstory [which a lot of people do]
B: Miyamoto stated in an interview that this game will not be a TP sequel.

A: I'd rather not. ALttP--LoZ works fine with the BS and everything else, but I don't want to get into that.
B: Really? I was unaware. Very interesting.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Miyamoto stated in an interview that this game will not be a TP sequel.

I heard that too. Was his wording 'sequel' or 'direct sequel' though? From the rumors around are you guys thinking DS or Wii to be released first, as it's also rumored that both consoles have one in production!