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  #41 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-18-2008, 10:16 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

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Ganon wasn't residing in the pyramid the entire time, he was in his own tower, waiting for the seal to fully open. He was in his tower because it is the safest most heavily defended place in the DW. There is a hole on the side of the pyramid. In the ganon fight, Link can fall down from there and exit the pyramid. That's probably why the hole in the side exists in the first place. This is the fat fairy speaking:
Don't you think you would have hit him in the fight? Also if that's the case then why didn't Ganon battle you then?

Why would he be in his tower when he wants to exit the DW as soon as possible (near the barrier to Hyrule castle)?

And for the record the hole wouldn't work as Ganon doesn't creat the pit you can fall down untill sometime during the fight.

And for the record again how would Ganon get out of the PoP when he had to have been there atleast once to wish upon the Triforce?
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  #42 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-18-2008, 10:56 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

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And for the record the hole wouldn't work as Ganon doesn't creat the pit you can fall down untill sometime during the fight.
he creates it after the fight, when whatever it is (spirit, Ganon, etc) flies away.
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Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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  #43 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-18-2008, 11:07 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

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he creates it after the fight, when whatever it is (spirit, Ganon, etc) flies away.
Yes that's what I said.

For it to work with SYs...:

Ganon is in the Pyramid of Power
Ganon somehow escapes the PoP without making a bigass hole
Ganon gets into the PoP again making a bigass hole...

you see where I'm going with this?
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  #44 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-18-2008, 11:22 PM
SevenYears SevenYears is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

Ask something worthwhile and new and I'll consider responding to you.
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  #45 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-19-2008, 05:36 AM
bitterlime Germany bitterlime is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

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Originally Posted by SevenYears View Post
The fact that he sends maidens to the DW while the seal exists
As I said that's nothing special really, several people have lost their way into the dark world on accident trough a portal (bully and ball guy, the bee thing in the misery mire, the speaking bonsai tree, etc etc). Aghanim just has some magic that opens a portal at his will. It's not implied that he can do this in the other direction too.Except for...
Quote:
and there are Agahnim statues indicating he has been in the DW prove he can travel from the DW to the LW.
the statues which really are something to think about, however...
Quote:
Name them.
From the top of my head:
Aghanims and Ganons relation could go back longer than we think, Aghanim could be dressed after the image of the statues, Aghanims clothes could be a traditional dark priest clothing, Ganon could have used Aghanims shell long enough for their minions to see them as one and the same, worshiping Aghanim similar like they worship Ganon. Heck they might get to see Aghanim more then Ganon. I bet peple can come up with all kind of things that may or may not make sense.
Quote:
I guarantee you the LW tiles that take people to the DW isn't a reason, since the pyramid is not reachable from their DW entries. Link is the only one that has the Hammer, Titan's Mitt, etc.
False assumption, the smiths for instance have the hammer too, titans mitt is ofcourse a different case, but there are other ways to lift stones, not everyone is a scrawny teen like Link. Some peopel also gain flying abilities upon entering the dark world (the bee person in misery mire for instance)
Quote:
Not every monster in the DW was once a LW resident. Who were the Cyclops, piranna dude, spear bears from the LW? No one.The ending credits prove this. Some monsters were created in the DW.
True dat...point though?
Quote:
The only LW tile that a few people even head to is the one on Death Mountain.
Again false assumption. What about fluet boy, bonsai tree, regular tree infront of fluet boys place, bee guy, several shop keepers etc.
Some of them are in areas not reachable by normal means (e.g. similar to your argument about the pyramid area). So either people have the means to acces those areas once they come from the portal on hera/death mountain. Or the other portals were touched by them too.
Quote:
I never said that.
Oh...then what exactly is Aghanims purpose after he opened the seal?
Quote:
The seal broke, but it didn't fully open yet. Ganon is a fat ass.
Yes apparently. XD I need to take a closer look at the quote again.
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:22 AM
Kingconnor Kingconnor is a male United Kingdom Kingconnor is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

Thanks bitterlime for inspiring me.
My theory for the Agahnim statues is a result of his portal making magic.
Perhaps he sent Ganon's minions still in the LW into the DW to help him there, so when they arrived they made statues in Agahnim's honour. I mean, who else can actually make portals to the SR/DW?
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:05 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

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Originally Posted by SevenYears View Post
Exactly. There are variations of a bunshin. Agahnim is Ganon's alterego/other self (check above for my definition). He isn't a ciela bunshin, nor is he a poe bunshin.
You have still yet to explain how he is in any way a bunshin!

If he's just a random wizard that does not look like, does not consist of the same soul, and is not possessed by Ganon, how does he in any way, shape, or form meet the definition of alter-ego or copy?
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  #48 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-19-2008, 04:33 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

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Ask something worthwhile and new and I'll consider responding to you.
Excuse me?

If you can't explain it then obviosly something is wrong with your theory.
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  #49 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-19-2008, 08:30 PM
SevenYears SevenYears is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

Quote:
As I said that's nothing special really, several people have lost their way into the dark world on accident trough a portal (bully and ball guy, the bee thing in the misery mire, the speaking bonsai tree, etc etc). Aghanim just has some magic that opens a portal at his will. It's not implied that he can do this in the other direction too.Except for...
Agahnim has to be sure that he is sending the maidens to the DW. The maidens entering a LW tile is not good enough apparently. They have to be sent to the DW by Agahnim's magic in order to break that seal. He can't be sure unless someone from the DW tells him, but that isn't possible. So Agahnim had to travel to the DW and get back on his own.

Quote:
From the top of my head:
Aghanims and Ganons relation could go back longer than we think, Aghanim could be dressed after the image of the statues, Aghanims clothes could be a traditional dark priest clothing, Ganon could have used Aghanims shell long enough for their minions to see them as one and the same, worshiping Aghanim similar like they worship Ganon. Heck they might get to see Aghanim more then Ganon. I bet peple can come up with all kind of things that may or may not make sense.
I believe it has to make sense. Why would there be statues of a random person if Ganon is the only important one and leader of the DW? If the statues are actually Agahnim, then there's a good reason.

Quote:
False assumption, the smiths for instance have the hammer too, titans mitt is ofcourse a different case, but there are other ways to lift stones, not everyone is a scrawny teen like Link. Some peopel also gain flying abilities upon entering the dark world (the bee person in misery mire for instance)
Even though they have a hammer, and not the magic one, the smith can be an exception. I figured the bee was already in the DW right outside the entrance to Misery Mire and just flew over the obstruction to enter it. I don't know what his LW form was, if he was a LW resident, but if it is relative to size, I'm not sure how he (as a LWer) would lift a heavy stone without the mitt.

Quote:
True dat...point though?
Monsters are in areas that Link doesn't have access to yet until he gets the hammer. So if some LWers went in the Hyrule Castle portal after the seal broke, and they ended up in the Dark World, the posts (which can be removed by the hammer) will obstruct them.

Quote:
Again false assumption. What about fluet boy, bonsai tree, regular tree infront of fluet boys place, bee guy, several shop keepers etc.
Some of them are in areas not reachable by normal means (e.g. similar to your argument about the pyramid area). So either people have the means to acces those areas once they come from the portal on hera/death mountain. Or the other portals were touched by them too.
In the LW, the flute boy went to death mountain but later used the ocarina/pet bird to travel to his grove and buried the flute there. Then he and his pet bird wandered to the DW by means of the Hyrule Castle Gate after Agahnim broke the seal. Finally he used the bird to travel to the DW grove.

A tree was probably strong in the LW and was able to lift the stone north of Kakariko Village, as you say a weakling would need a glove to lift a stone.

Shopkeepers can be DW created shopkeepers... why not.

Quote:
Oh...then what exactly is Aghanims purpose after he opened the seal?
To serve Ganon.

Quote:
My theory for the Agahnim statues is a result of his portal making magic.
Perhaps he sent Ganon's minions still in the LW into the DW to help him there, so when they arrived they made statues in Agahnim's honour. I mean, who else can actually make portals to the SR/DW?
The statues were made before Link first entered the DW.

Quote:
You have still yet to explain how he is in any way a bunshin!

If he's just a random wizard that does not look like, does not consist of the same soul, and is not possessed by Ganon, how does he in any way, shape, or form meet the definition of alter-ego or copy?
This is from the beginning:

Quote:
Also, alterego/other self does not have to mean a literal copy of a person, nor does it have to mean that one person has two selves. A person completely unrelated to another can be referred to as his alterego because of their qualities (similar and/or different). A man can create all of the ideas necessary to execute some task, but another person can have both the understanding of these ideas and the physical capabilities to actually pull it off. The physical one is the thinker's alterego.
Quote:
If you can't explain it then obviosly something is wrong with your theory.
Your question is idiotic. Watch the Ganon fight.
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  #50 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-19-2008, 09:17 PM
Kingconnor Kingconnor is a male United Kingdom Kingconnor is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

No seven years, you are idiotic for not actually reading people's argument properly.
My theory was on the Agahnim statues and how they got there.
Link is not the first one to the DW, we know that. Ganon was trapped there ages ago. So during that time, Agahnim is trying to find a way in to the DW. When he does, he becomes Ganon's bunshin so Ganon knows what is happening in the LW. When Agahnim somehow returns the LW, he sends minions to the DW to assist Ganon.
Agahnim is the Kings heir according the BS, so he is obviosult really close to the King. This has to take time, so it was obvious that I did not say that the statues appeared as soon as Link entered the DW.
You wholly don't understand the little ditch you are digging yourself into here, do you?
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:51 PM
SevenYears SevenYears is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

Quote:
No seven years, you are idiotic for not actually reading people's argument properly.
My theory was on the Agahnim statues and how they got there.
Link is not the first one to the DW, we know that. Ganon was trapped there ages ago. So during that time, Agahnim is trying to find a way in to the DW. When he does, he becomes Ganon's bunshin so Ganon knows what is happening in the LW. When Agahnim somehow returns the LW, he sends minions to the DW to assist Ganon.
Agahnim is the Kings heir according the BS, so he is obviosult really close to the King. This has to take time, so it was obvious that I did not say that the statues appeared as soon as Link entered the DW.
You wholly don't understand the little ditch you are digging yourself into here, do you?
You're the one who misunderstood. "The statues were made before Link first entered the DW." Agahnim sent maidens to the DW before the seal broke. Agahnim brought Link with him after the Seal broke. It has already been said that some monsters were already created in the DW before the seal broke. The original DW residents are the ones who would make the statues. There isn't enough to suggest he can bring LWers with him to the DW while the Seal remains in tact. He can't bring Ganon back with him from the DW to the LW since the Seal is still in tact. He can send maidens to the DW while the seal exists. It has already been stated that he alone can go back to the LW.
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  #52 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-20-2008, 07:44 AM
bitterlime Germany bitterlime is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

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Originally Posted by SevenYears View Post
Agahnim has to be sure that he is sending the maidens to the DW. The maidens entering a LW tile is not good enough apparently.
It's probably annoying to get them to the closest LW tile, and it's probably not the same since he seals them up in the darkworld(into those crystals). Rather then just sending them there. And why would he be unsure of where he sends them? If he is possesed by Ganon or his Bunshin he is perfectly aware of were they end up, even if Aghanims body might have never entered the DW.
Quote:
They have to be sent to the DW by Agahnim's magic in order to break that seal. He can't be sure unless someone from the DW tells him, but that isn't possible. So Agahnim had to travel to the DW and get back on his own.
Your using your own assumption that Aghanim is not possesed or a bunishin to proof your own statement. As I said, if he is possesed, a bunshin, or in any other way connected with Ganons mind he has no need to check. Even if you dont want him to be a bunshin or possesed, ot both. He could still simply have a telephatic connection to his master, or a simple way of opening a visual portal to watch/communicate with the darkworld. (I think this is used in the manga, but yeah we all know how canon those are :p. Still a valid possibility though)
Quote:
I believe it has to make sense. Why would there be statues of a random person if Ganon is the only important one and leader of the DW? If the statues are actually Agahnim, then there's a good reason.
I was just offering several possibilities, and the third one does cover the statues depicting Aghanim. ALso note that Aghanim's and the statues cloths look like Zuna garbs, the other desert race, it might well be a Zuna from Ganon/dorfs past that is depicted.
Bleh this topic is distastefully speculative no matter what explanation one comes up with. : /


Quote:
Even though they have a hammer, and not the magic one, the smith can be an exception. I figured the bee was already in the DW right outside the entrance to Misery Mire and just flew over the obstruction to enter it. I don't know what his LW form was, if he was a LW resident, but if it is relative to size, I'm not sure how he (as a LWer) would lift a heavy stone without the mitt.
Sounds fine, but I forgot again how that was relevant >_<
Well we seem to agree that just because their is some obstruction of some sort (be it a wall or posts or whatever) that does not mean tha there are not characters that can acces them regardles of those obstructions.

Quote:
Monsters are in areas that Link doesn't have access to yet until he gets the hammer. So if some LWers went in the Hyrule Castle portal after the seal broke, and they ended up in the Dark World, the posts (which can be removed by the hammer) will obstruct them.
I'm really sorry, how does this all relate to the main argument again?
And yes some LWers will be stuck in certain areas if they do not have the means to go on (like havng a hammer, being strong enough, able to jump high enough or fly or whatever)


Quote:
In the LW, the flute boy went to death mountain but later used the ocarina/pet bird to travel to his grove and buried the flute there. Then he and his pet bird wandered to the DW by means of the Hyrule Castle Gate after Agahnim broke the seal. Finally he used the bird to travel to the DW grove.
As far as I am aware this is impossible.
No clue how he got into the darkworld, nor does it matter much to me. But his pet bird did never enter the dark world, since you can find it in the light world. The image that I get from AlttP is that he has allready been lost long before Aghanim ever opens the seal. Since there is a statue for his pet...It's probably even possible to acces the haunted grove with his spirit before the seal is broken by aghanim. So your whole conception makes no sense.
I'm going to check some quotes and videos though to be sure.

Edit:
Yep I jusrt started a new file on Alttp, you can go to the sacred grove and see his ghost imediatly after you leave the cathedral. So he has been lost there before Aghanim opened the seal.
Quote:
I haven't had a chance to trim
my hedges recently. Thanks
for visiting anyway...
A while ago, there was a boy in
this village who could talk to
animals with his Flute.
He had a pet bird that flew
with him everywhere, but
he went to the mountain and
never returned.
This also implies he got lost in the LW tile on Deathmountain. So he just got lost in the dark world and found his way to th sacred grove, without his pet bird, since the pet bird is still found in the light world.


Quote:
A tree was probably strong in the LW and was able to lift the stone north of Kakariko Village, as you say a weakling would need a glove to lift a stone.
Yeah agreed, that's what I meant. It's possible for some chracters to reach places. We can't assume that only Link can acces certain areas. Other people might have alternative means to get there.
Quote:
Shopkeepers can be DW created shopkeepers... why not.
uhm...because I was under the impression that all smart monsters once were light dwelers.
Quote:
To serve Ganon.
In what way? What makes him special or needed? If he is just there to serv as a regular minion then he allready has played his important part. He is unneded now, other then a defense or canon fooder against/for Link. He is nothing more than any other regular boss now. At least going by what you said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenYears View Post
There isn't enough to suggest he can bring LWers with him to the DW while the Seal remains in tact. He can't bring Ganon back with him from the DW to the LW since the Seal is still in tact. He can send maidens to the DW while the seal exists. It has already been stated that he alone can go back to the LW.
Nothing really suggests that he can exit the dark world once he is there (with the seal in place).
Obviously he has the power to send things/persons there. Heck he might be a narcist and send the statues to the darkworld.:p
The fact that he sends the maidens to the darkworld alone is prove that he can send light dwellers to the darkworld. Or he could simply send them there trough a LW tile.
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  #53 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 12-20-2008, 08:12 AM
JaredThaJa JaredThaJa is a male JaredThaJa is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

I think it's both, Gannon split a piece of his Soul off and possessed Agahnim with it.

What we see after we kill Agahnim clearly implies possession to me.

The Statues are of Gannon, I believe Agahnim was someone living in the Light World who Gannon somehow managed to posses fomr The Dark World.
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:46 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

I find your explanation highly insufficient SevenYears.
You basically said "they're absolutely nothing alike but they can still be copies because I said so".

Even your half-assed explanation of them "being similar" is unbased as they have completely different attack styles, physical and material appearances, and even goals. Aganhim is clearly in submission to Ganon. By the very definition of "alter-ego" or "copy" it would put them on the same level, assuming they are different physical entities.

Again, if Ganon is not possessing Aganhim and if Aganhim is not a soul-split of Ganon, there is absolutely nothing that in any way would make Aganhim a bunshin.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:23 PM
Chad Chad is a male United States Chad is online now
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

This topic is quite one sided. Because of that, and because I'm a believer in the soul split explanation, then I will lock this thread. I didn't read the whole thing, but if there's anyone on this thread that agrees with SY, then I'll open the thread back up.

Edit: I'm opening this up temporarily to ask a question. Does anyone think maybe Ganon looked like Aghanim before he was changed into a giant pig by the DW magic? That might account for the statues. Just throwing that thought out there, if it hasn't already been posted.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:37 PM
bitterlime Germany bitterlime is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

^Why not? We never see Alttp Ganon's Ganondorf form...so it could be possible. I don't know anything that speaks for or against the idea.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:41 PM
rhakiath rhakiath is a male United States rhakiath is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

lol the lock lasted 7 minutes...

I think that Aghanim was a prototype to ganondorf, perhaps his alter ego. he fights the same as OoT ganondorf, looks similar enough, and tries to gain favor with the king to hide his treachery. there is not much evidence to suggest that aghanim was not a disguise of ganondorf dragmire. I think he must have hidden his identity since OoT happened so long ago and his name would have been known.
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:22 PM
SevenYears SevenYears is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

Quote:
It's probably annoying to get them to the closest LW tile, and it's probably not the same since he seals them up in the darkworld(into those crystals). Rather then just sending them there. And why would he be unsure of where he sends them? If he is possesed by Ganon or his Bunshin he is perfectly aware of were they end up, even if Aghanims body might have never entered the DW.
I'm not sure I understand some of the things you are saying. It may be annoying to get them to the closest LW tile, but it would also be a million times easier to do that in order to get the job done. Entering a LW tile to enter the DW is easier than using magic to send them to the DW. And what part of my post were you referring to when you were talking about sealing them up in the dark world?

Quote:
Ganon collecting us was because with Ganon's power, the seal of the Seven Sages could not be broken.

Accordingly, using the priest Aghanim, he had the seven maidens who inherit the power of the Sages fed into the Dark World.

After he used our power and broke the seal, we, whose usefulness was over, were sealed in crystals and presented to monsters. Not knowing about you was Ganon's only mistake.
He would be unsure where to send them if he has not gone there himself yet.

The problem with Ganon's copy being inside Agahnim is that Ganon's copy would have no way to leave the DW on its own without a physical opening present. Remember, when Agahnim broke the seal, there isn't even anything resembling a portal in the DW (relative to the new LW Castle gate portal). Keep all of that in mind, it relates to my next point. Ganon possessing Agahnim holds more credibility, but this too has a problem. If Ganon possesssed Agahnim, then it would be pointless for Agahnim in the LW to send maidens to the DW/break the seal if Ganon is already in Agahnim and he is in the LW. Remember my point about ganon's copy being in Agahnim, there is nothing in the DW that shows a portal to the LW. Also, if that bat in Ganon's Tower was Ganon's copy, and that bat physically makes an impact, then the DW would have shown some physical indication that a DW to LW portal exists... but it doesn't. Therefore, since Agahnim's statues show that Agahnim was in the DW before he sent the maidens, Ganon would possess him at this early time, and he can go back to the LW, thus ending Hyrule... but this doesn't happen either. Also, Ganondorf posesses Zelda in TP, but he has the Triforce of Power in that game. In ALTTP, he has no pieces. Near the end of the game, Zelda said Ganon is in his tower, not in the pyramid, so the soul split would be pointless this late in the game if Ganon is already in his tower.

Agahnim would be unsure where to send them since a Seal exists. But remember you said anyone in the LW who goes into the DW can head to practically anywhere in the DW and the barriers (my restrictions) aren't true in all cases? Well if Agahnim doesn't use magic to send himself to the DW while the Seal exists, he can enter a LW tile to get to the DW that way. So now it is clear that Agahnim can enter the DW while the seal exists, by two means, and he can get back to the DW (no need to be unsure). And Agahnim can send maidens to the DW in order to slip past the Seal (the Seal was created by the maidens' ancestors, there is a connection). Agahnim couldn't bring Ganon back with him to the LW. I'd also like to point out that Ganon/his copy slipping past the seal while Agahnim sending a maiden to the DW is pointless since the seal will break anyway and Agahnim stays in the DW right afterwards anyway the whole time until the end of the game.

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I was just offering several possibilities, and the third one does cover the statues depicting Aghanim. ALso note that Aghanim's and the statues cloths look like Zuna garbs, the other desert race, it might well be a Zuna from Ganon/dorfs past that is depicted.
Bleh this topic is distastefully speculative no matter what explanation one comes up with. : /
I think my idea that Ganon is the one and only leader indicates that a statue of someone else is pointless, the minions already have someone to worship. I can't think of another reason why those statues would be Agahnim, besides him showing off his accomplishments. He did something pretty important. For instance, he can enter the DW, Ganon can tell him his plan, Agahnim can be the only one who can pull it off (bring the maidens here).

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Sounds fine, but I forgot again how that was relevant >_<
Something to do with LWers who enter tiles wouldn't reach certain areas of the DW. I forgot too.
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I'm really sorry, how does this all relate to the main argument again?
Something about the statues. I think I hinted the idea that others would make statues and send them to the DW, but if Ganon never met Agahnim, then there would be unnecessary statues, Ganon would get rid of them, who's going to stop him.

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Yep I jusrt started a new file on Alttp, you can go to the sacred grove and see his ghost imediatly after you leave the cathedral. So he has been lost there before Aghanim opened the seal.

This also implies he got lost in the LW tile on Deathmountain. So he just got lost in the dark world and found his way to th sacred grove, without his pet bird, since the pet bird is still found in the light world.
Yeah I know all of that, I had to find a way to work around that assumption...But it would be very strange for him to get down the mountain without any help. Plus the pet bird might have went with him to the mountain, otherwise some vicious people in hyrule caught his bird and encased him in stone. In either case, it has been established that some people can go where they please in the DW.

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Yeah agreed, that's what I meant. It's possible for some chracters to reach places. We can't assume that only Link can acces certain areas. Other people might have alternative means to get there.
Yup.

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uhm...because I was under the impression that all smart monsters once were light dwelers.
Ah who knows. Ganon might want to stop by some shops and have someone to talk to, besides some raging priest.

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In what way? What makes him special or needed? If he is just there to serv as a regular minion then he allready has played his important part. He is unneded now, other then a defense or canon fooder against/for Link. He is nothing more than any other regular boss now. At least going by what you said.
The bold part is what I meant.

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Nothing really suggests that he can exit the dark world once he is there (with the seal in place).
Obviously he has the power to send things/persons there. Heck he might be a narcist and send the statues to the darkworld.:p
The fact that he sends the maidens to the darkworld alone is prove that he can send light dwellers to the darkworld. Or he could simply send them there trough a LW tile.
Yeah I said the seal was connected to the maidens, so only the maidens were allowed to be sent, though the tile is easier. The quote I provided about Ganon collecting maidens means Ganon was in contact with Agahnim beforehand. You said something about telepathy. Sahasrahala communicated with Link across dimensions, but this only happened after the seal broke. Still, you're coming up with some valid points. In SVB's words, finally some other wisdom is appearing in this thread. Ganon and Agahnim can't communicate with each other across dimensions unless the seal is broken, so Agahnim had to be in the DW to talk to Ganon. This is based on in-game proof. It's just like those telepathy tiles in the LW, Saharashanhla can talk to Link only if both are in the LW. Once Link enters the DW, the seal is broken at this point, so telepathy can commence.

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I find your explanation highly insufficient SevenYears.
You basically said "they're absolutely nothing alike but they can still be copies because I said so".

Even your half-assed explanation of them "being similar" is unbased as they have completely different attack styles, physical and material appearances, and even goals. Aganhim is clearly in submission to Ganon. By the very definition of "alter-ego" or "copy" it would put them on the same level, assuming they are different physical entities.

Again, if Ganon is not possessing Aganhim and if Aganhim is not a soul-split of Ganon, there is absolutely nothing that in any way would make Aganhim a bunshin.
Dude, watch/play the game. Agahnim teleports to a room behind him after sending zelda away, it looks and sounds like Ganon's move.

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I think that Aghanim was a prototype to ganondorf, perhaps his alter ego. he fights the same as OoT ganondorf, looks similar enough, and tries to gain favor with the king to hide his treachery.
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Does anyone think maybe Ganon looked like Aghanim before he was changed into a giant pig by the DW magic? That might account for the statues. Just throwing that thought out there, if it hasn't already been posted.
That might also account for Agahnim being Ganon's bunshin. Ah, some more wisdom appeared.
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Old 12-21-2008, 03:12 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

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Also, alterego/other self does not have to mean a literal copy of a person, nor does it have to mean that one person has two selves. A person completely unrelated to another can be referred to as his alterego because of their qualities (similar and/or different). A man can create all of the ideas necessary to execute some task, but another person can have both the understanding of these ideas and the physical capabilities to actually pull it off. The physical one is the thinker's alterego.
Alter ego - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, according to translators for other series besides Zelda (Naruto, for example), "bunshin" means "replication."
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:14 PM
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Re: Ganon can't Soul Split

alter ego definition | Dictionary.com
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