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Old 12-12-2008, 01:40 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Now, for those of us who believe that Ocarina of Time is the Seal War in its entirety, a little creative thinking is required. Becuase of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess being [not immediate] sequels to OoT, A Link to the Past cannot be its sequel.Thus, the only way to keep Ocarina of Time as the Seal War is to assume that post-Wind Waker [or Twilight Princess...if you want to have an imaginary Seal War ] the Seal still exists, despite Ganon's escape from it and death.

I'm sure you're all acquainted with the theory. Ganon gets sealed, Ganon escapes, Ganon dies. New Ganon is born/reincarnated/whatever, new Ganon enteres Sacred Realm, new Ganon can't find his way back out [as stated by the Swamp Maiden in A Link to the Past] because the Seal is still in existence. Thus, Ocarina of Time serves as the Seal War event without having to be an immediate prequel to A Link to the Past, and we don't have to assume two separate Sage Sealings.

Many people [such as those at LegendsAlliance] will argue to the death on one disbelief they have in that theory: It's too "fanfic-like" to believe that Ganon would wander in to an existing Seal and be stuck there. To assume anything other than a direct Seal War->A Link to the Past progression is overly complicated, and not something the directors would ever intend.

This is where I need Smallville Boy to come and post his Kaepora Gaebora "ORLY" picture

Let's see when the Seal War happened, according to A Link to the Past:

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Link to the Past
Generations ago, an order of
knights protected the Hylian
royalty. These Knights of
Hyrule were also guardians
of the Pendant of Courage.
It has been said that whenever
disaster waylays the royal
family, a Hero shall emerge
from the bloodline of the
Knights of Hyrule...
Unfortunately, most of them
were destroyed in the great
war against evil that took
place when the seven sages
created their seal.
The Hylian Knights, who haven't been a prominent group for generations, were alive and well during the time of the Seal War. So, assuming a direct progression of Seal War-> A Link to the Past, Ganon [and the Triforce] have been sealed in the Sacred Realm for generations prior to A Link to the Past.

Looking at the Sound and Drama, which was released after a Link to the Past, and is supposed to be the story immediately prequeling it, we see something interesting. The Triforce is resting in Hyrule Castle. hmmm...


Now let's look at the controversial Ancient Stone Tablets quote:

Quote:
The legendary kingdom of Hyrule. 6 years ago, in this once-peaceful country, the Prince of Thieves Ganondorf took the Triforce, became the demon king Ganon, and was attempting to conquer the land. The priest Agahnim, possessed by Ganon, tried to sacrifice the descendants of the seven sages one by one and break the seal.
Ancient Stone Tablets is supposed to take place about 6 years after A Link to the Past....and by that quote, Ganon got the Triforce six years ago...not six years and several generations ago Also, the game mentions the Seal, but does not mention anything about it being cast while Ganon was in the Sacred Realm. From aLttP, we already know it was cast generations ago.
Keep in mind that Ancient Stone Tablets came out in 1996/7...while Ocarina of Time was currently being created to be the Seal War.

So whether or not you think either one is canon, the fact remains that in both 1994 and 1996, stories were created in which Ganon got the Triforce immediately before A Link to the Past, and not during the Seal War. The second of these two stories, Ancient Stone Tablets, was made/released at approximately the same time as the game that was supposed to be the Seal War, Ocarina of Time. Ocarina of Time has Ganon only in control of one Triforce piece, and not the whole thing, and Ancient Stone Tablets makes it clear that Ganon didn't have to have the whole thing during the Seal War...he obtained the whole thing just before A Link to the Past.

So, canon or not, director intent clearly shows that assuming a lack of direct progression between the Seal War and A Link to the Past is not overcomplicated, or fanfic-like...it's already been incorporated twice [three times, if you count the infamous "Miyamoto Timeline"]

Now we have the newest release of aLttP, for the GBA, which removes Ganon from the story of the Seal War. Again, we are told the Seal War happened generations ago, via the manual and the games intro, but the game itself only mentions that Ganon is now currently stuck inside the Seal ["couldn't find his way back" according to the Swamp Maiden]. Nothing indicates that [the current] Ganon was present at the time of the Seal War, or that he obtained the whole Triforce at that point.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:52 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

I'm sure I'll have posted this all over the Internet by the time discussion of Sound & Drama is over, but....

Nintendo has a clear track record of demonstrating that the Imprisoning War is NOT directly before ALttP, and it runs even longer than Erimgard has traced it.

1994: ALttP Sound & Drama is released, and Ganon seems to have stolen the Triforce in an event that is not the Imprisoning War.
1996/1997: AST is released, and Ganon once again seems to have stolen the Triforce in an event (that happens in the same year as ALttP) that is not the Imprisoning War (that happens centuries before ALttP). This collaborates the Sound & Drama story.
1998: OoT is developed as a telling of the Imprisoning War. Ganon does not obtain the whole Triforce in OoT, yet has the whole Triforce in ALttP. Thus, Ganon must have obtained the whole Triforce in an event that is not the Imprisoning War. Again, this collaborates the Sound & Drama story.
1998: Miyamoto states the timeline to be OoT-LoZ/AoL-ALttP. This further underlines the point already demonstrated three separate times: Ganon did not get the full Triforce that he has in ALttP in the Imprisoning War.
2000: OoX is released and places the Triforce in Hyrule Castle, where it is in the ALttP Sound & Drama.
2002: ALttP GBA is released, and all mention of Ganon's theft of the Triforce happening in the Imprisoning War has been removed from the manual story.
2003: TWW is released, and Ganon from OoT is killed off, thereby making it impossible for the Ganon from OoT to be the same one from ALttP after the Adult events (which were stated to be the Imprisoning War).
2004: FSA is released, introducing a new Ganon in a pre-ALttP world who transforms into the evil king via a different means than seizing the Triforce in the Imprisoning War.
2006: TP is released, and demonstrates that Ganon from OoT was not sealed in the Sacred Realm in the Child timeline, either. It is now impossible for the Imprisoning War to appear in the timeline (as it posits that the Triforce remained in the Sacred Realm from creation at the time the realm was opened and the seal was cast) without its relationship to either the series at large or ALttP being severely modified.

The going trend shows ALttP's original place has already been modified as far back as 1994 and this has been demonstrated 6 separate times after that.

Get it through your heads, folks:

SEE HOW MUCH YOUR PRECIOUS IMPRISONING WAR IS WORTH.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:55 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

I knew that was coming!

However, some of your points rely on S/D and/or AST being canon. This was mainly directed at the crowd who deem them uncanon, just to show that at least the intent exists.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:58 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Well, I mostly use the timeline of releases and their implications to show that Sound & Drama and AST not relating Ganon's theft of the entire Triforce to the IW is at least corroborated in other games that show that Ganon didn't get the whole Triforce in the IW or that the Ganon seen in ALttP has his origins in some non-IW event.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:03 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Also, According to the palace of the four sword in Alttp. Ganon didn't wander into the SR (being stupid) he was placed there somehow.

Also I like how this helps show the intent that Ganondorf only getting the ToP in OoT isn't a problem
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Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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Old 12-12-2008, 04:06 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
Also, According to the palace of the four sword in Alttp. Ganon didn't wander into the SR (being stupid) he was placed there somehow.
Do you just mean becuase the Four Sword is shattered there? Or is there something else you're referring to.

The Swamp Maiden states that he rediscovered the Sacred Realm, but then couldn't get back out. Sounds to me like he willingly entered.

Also, if you take the S/D as canon, it's interesting to note that in the start of it [which takes place 10 years before aLttP] Ganon is openly attempting to sieze the Triforce. Near the end [which takes place immediately prior to aLttP], Ganon is no longer mentioned as being involved, and it's only his followers who are attacking Hyrule. Could that be because he had already entered the Sacred Realm at that point?
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:10 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimgard View Post
Do you just mean becuase the Four Sword is shattered there? Or is there something else you're referring to.

The Swamp Maiden states that he rediscovered the Sacred Realm, but then couldn't get back out. Sounds to me like he willingly entered.

Also, if you take the S/D as canon, it's interesting to note that in the start of it [which takes place 10 years before aLttP] Ganon is openly attempting to sieze the Triforce. Near the end [which takes place immediately prior to aLttP], Ganon is no longer mentioned as being involved, and it's only his followers who are attacking Hyrule. Could that be because he had already entered the Sacred Realm at that point?
Yeah, that is what I meant.

Hmm. I forgot that was still in the gba version. Then what is the four sword doing there? The only thing I could think of is that someone used it after FSA to stop him again, and lost.
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Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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Old 12-12-2008, 04:15 PM
Diligo Diligo is a female United States Diligo is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Poor ganondorf he is like a curious stupid cat who keeps getting his head stuck in a tissue box, after free is compelled to do it again. Or better yet a moth to flame, he is remade goes for it again. Silly Ganondorf when will you learn you lesson?

He sorta reminds me of the Trix rabbit...

"Silly Ganon triforce is for the Chosen!"
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:18 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
Hmm. I forgot that was still in the gba version. Then what is the four sword doing there? The only thing I could think of is that someone used it after FSA to stop him again, and lost.
Though sorta speculatory, Hombre's theory is that he took the Four Sword with him after he broke out of it.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:46 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

the four sword is like the MS as in it repels evil. I don't think he could take it with him.
In the palace of the four sword you have to fight four "dark Links" of sorts. Possibly the previous owner of the four sword before it was broken. A spirit or something.
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Even if we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth, the feelings that were left behind will open the door! Even if the infinite universe were to go against us, our burning blood will cut through fate! We'll break through heavens and dimensions! We'll show you our path through force! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?

Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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Old 12-12-2008, 06:29 PM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

The Seal War can still be perfectly explained with these as well, so no matter there.

The S&D also implies how Ganon acquired the Triforce and wished upon it prior to LttP.

As stated by Zelda, even if someone does not have a balanced heart, they can get their wish from the Triforce by combining the three pieces after it splits.

The Triforce pieces were together (but not combined) in the palace after AoL, and the S&D implies that the Triforce was in the castle when Ganon's minions attacked. It also says they were ordered to take the Triforce.

So Ganon received the three pieces, combined them, and got his wish, and then LttP happens.

All of that is with the assumption that the Triforce pieces weren't combined in the castle in LttP. Which is fine if AoL is sometime before LttP.
And "The Triforce" seems to be a collective term for all the pieces anyway.

That leads my to treat both AST and the S&D as canon, but not to actually place them.
They contain evidence/facts to support placement of actual games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark:
Then what is the four sword doing there?
Assuming your talking about the FS being in the SR/DW, I thought it could have been the maidens who sealed the FS in the SR. Of course, thats speculation.
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Old 12-12-2008, 06:32 PM
Skylark Skylark is a male United States Skylark is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Quote:
Assuming your talking about the FS being in the SR/DW, I thought it could have been the maidens who sealed the FS in the SR. Of course, thats speculation.
Yes, that was my idea at first.

But this implies Ganon went into the SR willining. Therefore he wouldnt be in the FS when it was placed in the SR, so why is it there?
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Even if we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth, the feelings that were left behind will open the door! Even if the infinite universe were to go against us, our burning blood will cut through fate! We'll break through heavens and dimensions! We'll show you our path through force! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?

Hmm, The official timeline reminds me alot of my original theory. The Rejected Hero of Time.

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Old 12-12-2008, 06:45 PM
Viral Viral is a male Australia Viral is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Good point.

The broken FS makes the FSA - LttP connection 100%, but the fact that there is a palace of the FS and a broken FS is confusing...

There's another topic up for debate.
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:49 PM
Pinecove Pinecove is a male Canada Pinecove is offline
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Re: Sound and Drama, Ancient Stone Tablets, and the Seal War

Too...much...SW.

Yeah, OoT =SW.

'Nuff said.
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