Reekfish/Zora's Domain Snowpeak theory

Originally Posted by Keaton-King

Milking system.

Just to put in a fact that Zora woman don't produce milk in their breasts since they lay their young in eggs.

I think the breasts were added to distinguish them straight away that they are females since their bodies are almost anatomically the same as human females.

That reminds me of something... In MM, it's hinted that the Zoras just abandon the eggs, leaving the kids to raise them selves... While in TP, it's hinted the exact oposite.

Originally Posted by Keaton-King

That reminds me of something... In MM, it's hinted that the Zoras just abandon the eggs, leaving the kids to raise them selves... While in TP, it's hinted the exact oposite.

I don't remember the Zoras in TP mentioning anything about their young...

Prince Ralis...?

Oh, wait. I just remembered that the kids in MM was stolen, not abanded.

I was gonna say!

They were taken by the Gerudo pirates.

And female Zoras wouldn't produce milk in their breasts like humans do since yolk in eggs feed their young while they are growing inside the egg's shell.

I think the genders of the different races are being thought into a little too much. Gorons are seen as male mostly because they are obviously meant to be put forward as a very mascline and tribal race, a female would seem out of place, for example, the Dwarves in the Lord of the Rings.
The Zora are already a rather feminine looking race and Ruto and Rutela were most probably given breasts to make them unique and look more attractive.

Rutela...? Is that the Sage from TWW?

And are there really just female Zora's in TP (exept for Prince Ralis)?

Originally Posted by Keaton-King

Rutela...? Is that the Sage from TWW?

And are there really just female Zora's in TP (exept for Prince Ralis)?

Rutela was the Zora queen in TP.
I didn't say that there were only female Zoras, just that they looked feminine

No one seems to have touched on the process of evolution and how it works. Jabu-Jabu is a very large guardian deity. On one hand, because of its large size it doesn't have very many predators, not to mention it doesn't reside with many either. On the other hand, because of this, over a long period of time, due to evolution it could have become much, much smaller since it would not require as much protection as its large size gives to it. To counter this it could have developed its strong scent to prevent larger predators from eating it.

The only issue with this is Jabun (of which there is only one) and how he fits into the equation. He has to have come from somewhere, and I would think it would be the descendant of Jabu-Jabu (of which also there is only one) since they are tied to the same purpose. Why, then, would Jabu-Jabu devolve into many reekfish and then revert to a single deity of his former shape hundreds of years later?

I don't believe this would be the course of things, so personally I believe that Jabu-Jabu is Jabun's ancestor whilst the reekfish is simply one of the new species derived from the regular fish that resided in Zora's Domain in OoT, which developed an effective new defensive mechanism and are rare and nutritious enough to garner the Zora's reverence. But the rest of you can believe what you will.

-LOTR dwarves have women, but I won't deal with that here, read the appendices to LOTR for info on them.

-evolution is kind of a bad thing to bring up, since we are talking about maybe a thousand years here. JJ is very large because he is ancient (we have every reason to believe he is as old as the Deku tree) and well fed by the zora. His size is more due to age than evolution, and the smell thing is just something they added in TP for use with the scent ability.

Jabun is a whole other issue- whether he is related to the wind fish, Ocean King, or JJ is unknown, but he is on an entirely different timeline as JJ. Personally, I think the art styles in the different games are to blame, as the different characters in this case are similar but their differences are odd. JJ's fin structure is whale like, as are his innards, while his freshwater habitat and game references indicate he is a fish.

these recurring characters may be related, but the reekfish are what I hope to focus on.

Evolution is the only way to explain the possibility of Jabu-Jabu and the reekfish being related unless he's asexual, therefore it's quite relevant to this case. However, due to the fact that Jabu-Jabu and the reekfish (of which there are many as opposed to one...I tried to emphasize that in my last post) have just about nothing in common, it's highly unlikely they're related in any way. TWW takes place a long time after OoT and TP, after all of Hyrule has been flooded, so saying Jabun and Jabu-Jabu are on completely different timelines is inconsequential. With Jabun, there are a number of similarities and there would require little or no change over time for it to be related to Jabu-Jabu or be the same being altogether; when comparing the reekfish with Jabu-Jabu, you'd have to bend a LOT of rules to consider them similar.

The reekfish gets its name from its strong scent. It is just that - a fish - while Jabu-Jabu is more whale-like, regardless of whether or not he was considered a guardian deity by the Zora. Geographic location is of no consequence seeing as many other things have been moved around in Hyrule in TP. Keep in mind we don't see the Great Deku Tree in TP either; there are likely other areas of Hyrule in TP that are implied but not revealed.

From what I gather, the reekfish are simply an evolved form of regular fish. I would say a rare few of the regular fish from OoT migrated into more dangerous territory and adapted by excreting a strongly "reeking" chemical through their gills to ward off predators. The Zora do not worship them in the same way they worshipped Jabu-Jabu; there is no altar dedicated to them, unless you consider Mother & Child Rock. It's far more believable that they would have come from regular fish than from something as large, unique and revered as Jabu-Jabu.

I still say that they cleanse the water, the "reeking" chemicals are impurities in the water, where in JJ they would be the monsters and stuff. it would explain how both are sacred to the zora, and how JJ is a guardian to them. cleansing the water for all hyrule, especially the water dwelling zora, is pretty good reason to feed JJ and to keep the foul reekfish around.

I also think the reeking aspect was developed both as a humorous aspect and a hint to use the wolf scent ability.

evolution does not happen over a few hundred years, and not without a lot of dead specimens. there would have to be really strong selection for that, which would result in very little variety of fish in the game. if there was a famine in which, for example, only the coral was in abundance and the other types of fish starved while the reekfish were able to propegate, that would explain their emergence.

however, if they had a reeking defense and a lot of predators, the other types of fish would get eaten and die out or narrow down to a few phenotypes.(don't even mess with me, I just got an A in a course about exactly what evolution is and how most people get it wrong )

and I still think that JJ is as old as the great Deku tree or close to it.
even in ooA, about 400 years pass before he grows enough to enter, and he is already around 100 years old I would guess. (I am rusty on OoA, so I don't remember much else)

over such a long time period, it is hard to have multiple generations anywhere in the timeline, let alone evolutionary change in the span of perhaps 200 years.


SVB, i hear you coming, don't even think about it...

Originally Posted by rhakiath

I still say that they cleanse the water, the "reeking" chemicals are impurities in the water, where in JJ they would be the monsters and stuff. it would explain how both are sacred to the zora, and how JJ is a guardian to them. cleansing the water for all hyrule, especially the water dwelling zora, is pretty good reason to feed JJ and to keep the foul reekfish around.

I also think the reeking aspect was developed both as a humorous aspect and a hint to use the wolf scent ability.

evolution does not happen over a few hundred years, and not without a lot of dead specimens. there would have to be really strong selection for that, which would result in very little variety of fish in the game. if there was a famine in which, for example, only the coral was in abundance and the other types of fish starved while the reekfish were able to propegate, that would explain their emergence.

however, if they had a reeking defense and a lot of predators, the other types of fish would get eaten and die out or narrow down to a few phenotypes.(don't even mess with me, I just got an A in a course about exactly what evolution is and how most people get it wrong )

and I still think that JJ is as old as the great Deku tree or close to it.
even in ooA, about 400 years pass before he grows enough to enter, and he is already around 100 years old I would guess. (I am rusty on OoA, so I don't remember much else)

over such a long time period, it is hard to have multiple generations anywhere in the timeline, let alone evolutionary change in the span of perhaps 200 years.


SVB, i hear you coming, don't even think about it...

Actually, there is an undefined period of time between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. It could have very well have been 1,000 to 2,000 years (even though that's stretching it, I believe in a 500-900 year span) so I think that would be enough time to make a small evalutionary change like normal fish- reekfish. And to evolve the predator repelling smell, there would probably need to be some kind of fish not seen in Ocarina of Time that preyed on normal fish. And in Twilight Princess, a new type of fish is found in the Water Temple...Skullfish! So Skullfish could have once been in other places besides the water temple. A lot of normal fish kept dying, so eventually the Reekfish evolves with a stink to ward off Skullfish. They then escape up Zora's River and breed around the Mother and Child Rocks, which according to the Prince is made of a coral that Reekfish love to eat, so that explains why they don't leave. So Reekfish could have evolved that way.

there are no skullfish in OoT, and if there were, then why are there so many other types of fish in TP? a predator that dominant would eat other types of fish as well.

also the reeking is not needed as defense, even the zora cannot catch them as they are too fast. if they smell bad because of their role in cleansing water, that would explain it.

since they are so fast, the skullfish should not be able to catch them.

the skullfish in MM are slower than zora link, and if zoras are slower than reekfish, I doubt the skullfish could come close.

now, if the zora protected them because of their role cleansing the water, then that would explain the lack of skullfish in ZD.

nobody use evolution for theory ever again unless you REALLY understand it. it is a game, and a time period of less than 1000 years. games are unscientific by nature, and under 1000 years (somebody look this up, I forget the time between) is not enough time to evolve such a complex system naturally.

if reekfish could not survive as regular fish due to predators, then there should be no more regular fish.


edit:

Interview with Eiji Aomuma:

Interviewer: When does Twilight Princess take place?

Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.



under 200 years, not 1000.

a hundred and SOMETHING years. Also, how relieble are interviews? He was just making up a number off the top of his head.

To be fair, so were you...

I have another idea for this,mabye over the suppossed hundred year time passage from oot to tp the ice cavern may have collapsed and got covered in snow to eventually turn into a gigantic mountain.then somewhere in the timeline the yeti's came,and built a mansion.

Don't revive threads older than three months.