Basic Tenets of YOUR Timeline?

In essence: what makes your timeline unique?

At the time I began mine, most timelines tended to slant towards the ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL order and put the 2D games on the Child Timeline. Mine was unique in that it followed the Miyamoto Order, in fact supporting it using scenarios from TWW and PH's links to AoL and the Four Sword games.

Things that I've pioneered:

1) The Miyamoto Order in the modern timeline. I was among the first modern theorists to review LoZ/AoL in the context of TWW's flood. One of the first hints to a chronology was the common reference point of the "time when Hyrule was one kingdom," referenced as history in LoZ/AoL, set down as the time period of ALttP's backstory, and explicitly cast as the setting of OoT. TWW would mark the ending of that period, the decline of the Hylian race and language as referenced in ALttP, and a period in which a new king would be sought for as described in AoL. Since TWW also places a high emphasis on the naming of Princess Zelda, it also seems to share connections to the naming tradition of AoL. This combined with the search for new lands in an ocean-based world plus AoL's unique inclusion of two additional islands in Hyrule's jurisdiction seemed to cement the TWW-LoZ/AoL order for me, especially once I noticed that a portion of PH's sea corresponds roughly to AoL's map.*

*Goron Island matches Death Mountain; the Isles of Ruins and of the Dead closely match the large islands; Maze Island is in about the same place relevant to said islands.

2) The Naming Tradition pre-Flood. I associated the naming of Zelda in TWW with the naming tradition laid down when the "first generation" Zelda was put to sleep, setting the establishment of this tradition in the aftermath of OoT, when the Triforce first passed into the hands of the royal family. This looser interpretation of the Sleeping Zelda story led to a loose interpretation of the Hiding of the Triforce of Courage as well, allowing for it to happen as a result of Daphnes's wish at the end of TWW- he leaves behind the Triforce for a time when a new king would come and establish the kingdom he wishes for for his descendants.

3) The sealing of the Four Sword in the Sacred Realm. The maidens cast a seal on the Four Sword in the ending scene of FSA that bears a strong resemblance to the depiction of the seal on Ganon first shown in official art for ALttP and later in a stained glass window in TWW. I interpret this to mean that the Four Sword was itself sealed in the Sacred Realm by the maidens, allowing for the Palace of the Four Sword to be canon and setting up FSA as ALttP's direct prequel.

4) The Cobble as simultaneously descendants of the Hylians and the pyramid-building ancestors of the Zuna. The Cobble have the Hylians' long ears but also have the pyramid-building legacy referenced in FSA for the Zunas' ancestors. While this theory is really irrelevant, it does seem to serve as subtle background evidence for the 2D games' placement in the Adult Timeline.

5) OoT as still being the Imprisoning War, despite a direct connection to ALttP being impossible. Instead of being a direct story as to how the villain got to where he is (as it is told in the SNES manual), the Imprisoning War seems to have been reduced to a backdrop explaining the sages' seal (as it is told in the GBA manual), which the villain is now trying to break. FSA seems to have offered a new backstory for ALttP's Ganon.

6) The Great Deku Tree uniting the islands and expanding them to create the Hyrule seen in the 2D games. At first this idea was met with much criticism, but the Deku Tree's appearance in a post-Flood world that features some locales from Hyule in TFPRR gives me hope that this is something at least loosely incorporated by the developers.

I've only been on the site for...well, almost a year now. I haven't really been influential at all. I'm just sort of here. I haven't been a big part of any discoveries or anything like that.

But I am very proud of ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL. I've been fighting to get it going for a couple months now, and I'm proud to be able to say that. It defines me as a theorist. Once I believe somethng, I stick to it. Perseverence and determination are strong areas for me. My long term goal as a theorist is to get my placement of LoZ and AoL accepted. I believe I will eventually succeed.

I was a very strong supporter of Humulos's timeline before the OoX--TMC stuff was found. it was the popular timeline then, and I think I can say I did a good job spreading it, for a fairly new guy.

Now it's very different. I've got a different timeline then almost everyone else. But it's more fun. I enjoy the challenge of defending my side and trying to win other people over. When I supported Humulos's timeline I couldn't see how it would ever be invalidated. I'm sure many people feel the same way about the popular timeline now. But eventually, a new timeline will emerge, and I want it to be mine. I'm the only one working hard to press my timeline, mainly because I'm one of the only ones with a different timeline, but it's gotta count for something.

I hope to be recognized someday as the guy who wouldn't give up on ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL and in the end was right, despite what everyone thought.

Ollathir: I should point out to you that your placement of LoZ/AoL is still the norm. Don't think you're doing a bad job; plenty of people still stick to that view.

The only really unique thing about my timeline is that I place LA after OoX instead of after LttP.
And the fact I support the Miyamoto timeline means that LA can go anywhere that has ganons death.

Well, my timeline is the same as Lex's but we came to the conclusion by different means, and we have a few differences in beliefs.
A few things that I made my mark with:

The Naming Tradition
I believe Daphnes speech in Wind Waker about abiding by the laws of the past means Tetra stepping into her "princess" role, and protecting the entire Triforce of Wisdom, not the naming tradition. Thus, the naming tradition starts after PH.

This does not contradict AoL, because the princess is still the "founder/first generation" Zelda, because she is the first Zelda of the new Hyrule. The founder.

The "Freshly Picked Oracles" connection
While I wasn't the one to discover the hints at Koroks' success and relations to OoX in FPTRR [credit to TheManInTheMoon/MercuryMule], I brought the concepts to ZU and popularized them.

The Name of Ganon
This didn't receive as much notice, but during the "Super Theorizing Brothers Brawl" thread, I got into a PM discussion with MajoraMan/Ollithar and ended up doing some research into Ganon's Japanese title.

I found that OoT/WW Ganon and LoZ Ganon share the same name [Big/Great Demon King], but FSA/aLttP's Ganon features a different name [King of Darkness/Evil]. I brought this up in the Super Theorizing Brother's Brawl Thread, and then gave it its own topic, promoting the concept that this supports the Miyamoto timeline.

The Great Demon King dies, and is reincarnated, but since he's in a different body and uses a different means to transform into his Ganon form [Trident instead of Triforce], he gets a different title.

Are there any japanese text dumps for the oracles? It would be good to know what Ganon's title is in OoX.

There aren't currently. Skylark and I are trying to make some, but we haven't found anyone who can yet :/

That said, OoX Ganon is called the King of the Gerudos...a title FSA/aLttP Ganon never earned, as he was rejected by his people.

Sorry for going off topic but is there any way I can help even though I don't speak japanese?

"Basic tenets" is perhaps a tough question for me to answer. My timeline has changed many times, as both my knowledge of the series grew and opinions of other theorists have swayed me. I'd like to think I have been timeline theorizing as long as anyone, as my fascination with a Zelda timeline began as a little boy playing Alttp. I fully, and I mean fully, expected the "Sleeping" Zelda story to play out in some fashion once I defeated Ganon in the Dark World. LOL - Imagine my rage when the ending to the game presented, really, no explicit reference to the AoL back-story whatsoever.

When Miyamoto's timeline quote first came out, I rebelled, perplexed as to how LoZ/AoL-Alttp could be justified given problems with geography, Triforce location, Ganon status, etc in his sequence. Therefore, I would always insist Alttp-LoZ/AoL, until those questions could be reasonably answered in my mind.

Ever since WW came out, I have advocated WW-LoZ/AoL, if for no other reason it seemed a reasonable sequence from a geographical/state of civilization perspective. I'd like to think I supported it long before it was popular.

Other than that, "Basic tenets" is tough to define for me because my approach to timeline theorizing is probably very different from most. While I have always fiercely debated certain points, I am really someone who is less interested in defending my own timeline as I am in using debate to try and reveal what the most likely timeline is/would be to the developers. I want the answer, assuming there is one. I want the top timeline minds to steer me in the right direction. I want that Alttp little boy to get what he was looking for.

My basic tents then, are as follows:

--- Originally defended Alttp-LoZ when the Miyamoto quote emerged. Changed that thinking gradually over time, with a final acceptance of Miyamoto when the Miyamoto sequence in the AT reached high popularity - kudos to Erimgard/Lex on that. I believe it is significant that the despite its age, and multiple games released since, the Miyamoto sequence can still ring true. I find that very significant.
--- Supported WW-LoZ/AoL early on, although at first believed AoL came at the end of the AT.
--- TMC library secrets are a critical piece of information regarding the placement of games. I detest the concept it is a cameo. It may very well be, but without something…i.e. a developer quote, or a significant fact, I believe nothing should be considered a cameo unless there is a factual reason for doing so.
--- Developer quotes, while they should be looked at critically, should be taken into very high regard. That does not mean they are all 100% factually correct, but given my timeline objectives, they are very important.
--- AoL: Given the town names of sages from OoT, a placement of LoZ/AoL in the Child timeline is absolutely impermissible unless adequately explained.

Well, I also kinda copied Lex's and Erimgard's timeline. But it was after reading about THC library, so I kinda came to the same conclusion by myself. At the time I actually kind of laughed of using FPTRR as a resource (Points and laughs at Erimgard)

My main point different than others are LoZ-aol-OoX is all one Link. I was one first to say so after OoX was shown to be pre TMC. Aralith made a thread about it shortly after I did, though I don't know if mine influenced it at all.

I am still undecided with the Sleeping zelda story. I love Lex's theory on the matter, as it makes use of every reference. However New hyrule zelda seems to flow better.

@ SIgn of Madness.
If you can find someone that knows how to use a Hex Editor and actually can dump the Japanese text, that would be the biggest step in getting this elusive text dump.

Originally Posted by Skylark

I love Lex's theory on the matter, as it makes use of every reference. However New hyrule zelda seems to flow better.

Quoted for truth.

My time line is unique. I haven't posted it . I think people might not like it because f what it's unique about it. My time line includes the Game and Watch game. I can understand removing the CDi games because they are not Nintendo. Game and watch is Nintendo. so i kind of consider that to mean it to be canon. Of course many would disagree so i haven't posted it.

I've seen several people include the G/W games, so it's not that unusual.
I include FPTRR in brackets, and note it as "semi-canon". I'm still debating whether to include AST as semi-canon or not, but I'm leaning towards no.

I was the first and only person back in the day to support FPTRRL as Canon. I also leaned towards the idea that LoZ should come before ALttP.

I've always followed the miyamoto timeline so I have always believed LoZ was before LttP and LA could go anywhere.

hehe interesting. I might just have to explain my theories better and post up my time line heh

As far as

[ ALttP ] -> [ TLoZ - TAoL ]

versus

[ TLoZ - TAoL ] -> [ ALttP]

goes, I think the statements by Miyamoto and all the promotional material released by Nintendo at the time of A Link to the Past's release kind of cancel each other out, so to speak.

If someone uses Miyamoto's interview as evidence, the back of the ALttP box can be used as counter-evidence, and vice versa.

So I think we're stuck back to using nothing but in game evidence. At the time of Ocarina of Time's release, it seemed obvious that Miyamoto was mistaken. However, while I strongly dislike the idea of retconning, Lex has already convinced me that the timeline may just make more sense with the NES titles a while before ALttP as so...

] -> [TWW - PH] -> [TLoZ - TAoL] -> [OoX] -> [TMC] -> [FS - FSA] -> [ALttP - LA]

[OoT

- MM] -> [ TP ]

Isn't that really the most evidenced timeline now?

Almost the most. If you put LA right infront of OoX it is (:

Now don't be biased

Not bein' biased I am speaking the truth. OoX/LA has more evidence than LttP/LA. Whether or not it is actually OoX/LA I don't know.