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Old 07-19-2008, 01:19 PM
Adam148 Adam148 is a male United Kingdom Adam148 is offline
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Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

OK, so this isn't an epicly large theory, but I hope I can get as much information as I can. What I'm trying to prove here is that Termina probably isn't destroyed in the adult timeline. I will, however, look at both sides of the argument as best I can.

OK, I might as well put some facts into this before I begin, so I can, hopefully, prove my theory correct. Please bear in mind that these facts are that which occured in the child timeline. OK so here we go:
-Happy Mask Salesman somehow gets ahold of Majora's Mask.
-For some reason, after OoT, he packs up shop and goes questing.
-For some reason, he ends up in what appears to be the Lost Woods of Hyrule.
-He then gets mugged by the Skull Kid, who steals Majora's Mask, and dot dot dot.
OK, so we know that HMS lost Majora's Mask to Skull Kid, this is an important fact, now we will back to OoT.
In the adult half of OoT, we see that the HMS has packed up shop, and hasn't returned, so it can be assumed he was mugged by the Skull Kid and had the Mask stolen, went to Termina, got obliterated by the falling moon, etc.
But hang on, doesn't the Skull Kid appear in the adult half of OoT? Wouldn't he too have been destroyed by the falling moon? Well, that would mean that the Mask was not stolen, and Termina was not destroyed because Link was in stasis, wouldn't it?
Now, you could be thinking that Majora's Mask would protect its host while it destroys the world around it, but it seems it was only using the Skull Kid to commit its crimes until it had gathered enough energy to manifest itself a new body (Majora's Mask/Wrath/Incarnation), and then it would no longer need the Skull Kid, so we can assume the Skull Kid didn't return to Termina, and just stayed in the Lost Woods.
So, hang on, what about the Happy Mask Salesman? Why didn't he return? Well, he may have gone to Termina anyway, you know, getting out of the way as Ganondorf goes about his evil reign of terror. So he may have set up shop in Clock Town, but we don't know, so we can't dwell on that.
So, what if someone else mugged the Happy Mask Salesman and stole the mask? What is HMS himself got possessed by the mask? Well, we don't know, but we can be pretty sure that HMS, who knows a bit about the mask, wouldn't be stupid enough to put the mask on. The fact is, we don't know what actually happened to Termina, so we can only speculate.
I think its likely that Termina still exists on the adult timeline, but we can't know for sure.

Well, hopefully, I have convinced you that Termina might still exist in the adult timeline. Wow. This theory is bigger than I thought it would be.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:29 PM
The Illusion Canada The Illusion is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

I see what you are saying, but Majora's Mask would still exsist. So there is a chance it would be stolen by someone else, and thus Termina's destruction would be underway, with Link having no knowledge of this, along with anyone else in Hyrule. It's quite likely Termina was destroyed, albeit having someone else falling under the control of Majora's Mask. It's true though, we can only speculate...
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:32 PM
Adam148 Adam148 is a male United Kingdom Adam148 is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

^ Point taken, and I did say that HMS could have been mugged by someone else and the mask stolen by that person, but if he wasn't mugged, then he probably still had it with him. He mightn't have even found it, it might still have been locked away wherever it was, or HMS might have taken it to a safer holding place.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:36 PM
Anann Anann is a female Anann is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Technically, Adam, by the time of Adult Link in OoT, Termina has already been destroyed.

The HMS is shown to exist somewhat outside of time, not to mention at some point it's implied that there is more than one of them. The skull kid's appearance in the AT would be retconned at the time of MM's release.

One cannot hold something in a game made prior to the existance of another game against the games that come after it.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:41 PM
Adam148 Adam148 is a male United Kingdom Adam148 is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
Technically, Adam, by the time of Adult Link in OoT, Termina has already been destroyed.

The HMS is shown to exist somewhat outside of time, not to mention at some point it's implied that there is more than one of them. The skull kid's appearance in the AT would be retconned at the time of MM's release.

One cannot hold something in a game made prior to the existance of another game against the games that come after it.
other theorists might disagree...
HMS might exist out of time, be we do not know if Termina does.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:43 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
Technically, Adam, by the time of Adult Link in OoT, Termina has already been destroyed.
Proof?

Skull Kid needs to be on the hunt for Majora's Mask in order to steal it, and Skull Kid needs to steal it for Termina to even be in danger, and in the Adult timeline he seems most definitely to have not stolen it as he is dancing in the Lost Woods.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:46 PM
Anann Anann is a female Anann is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

What part of "future games retcon past games" is not making it through to you, so I can explain further?

Ocarina of Time was made with no anticipation of Majora's Mask being developed, and obviously Nintendo can't travel back in time to "fix the game".

I don't really have time to go 20 rounds over this with you. You are well aware of retconning. I shouldn't even need to discuss this with you.
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Ангелы и демоны кружили надо мной
Рассекали тернии и млечные пути
Не знает счастья только тот,
Кто его зова понять не смог...

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Old 07-19-2008, 01:47 PM
Adam148 Adam148 is a male United Kingdom Adam148 is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
What part of "future games retcon past games" is not making it through to you, so I can explain further?

Ocarina of Time was made with no anticipation of Majora's Mask being developed, and obviously Nintendo can't travel back in time to "fix the game".
So they're going to retcon an entire character, because he stole a mask in an alternate timeline?
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:49 PM
Anann Anann is a female Anann is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Retcon his appearance at a single point in the adult time line? why not?

They have retconned far greater things before and since.

His appearance in the forest in the AT, was largely irrelevant, and non important
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πάντα άγρυπνος
As all gods are of human creation, worshipping an external god is to worship another human by proxy


Ангелы и демоны кружили надо мной
Рассекали тернии и млечные пути
Не знает счастья только тот,
Кто его зова понять не смог...

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Old 07-19-2008, 01:54 PM
Adam148 Adam148 is a male United Kingdom Adam148 is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
Retcon his appearance at a single point in the adult time line? why not?

They have retconned far greater things before and since.

His appearance in the forest in the AT, was largely irrelevant, and non important
The fact remains that he was still there. Explain why the HMS wasn't there. It shows they were planning ahead, as he wasn't there, and then in the next game it turns out that he went to another world, which might suggest he was killed when the moon fell, but, hang on, the Skull Kid is still in the Lost Woods, and not dead. Lets consider it a retcon and leave it at that shall we? No, you can't just call it a retcon because it suits you, you need a reason.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:57 PM
Anann Anann is a female Anann is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

They weren't planning ahead.
Suits me? Stop thinking I really give a crap about this, then you might understand me better.

It's a retcon because the games show it to be. Go complain to the games/developers if you are sick of them retconning.

The skull kid "post MM release", is no longer present in the AT lost woods.
You are trying to combine two worlds, "pre" and "post" MM. You can't.
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πάντα άγρυπνος
As all gods are of human creation, worshipping an external god is to worship another human by proxy


Ангелы и демоны кружили надо мной
Рассекали тернии и млечные пути
Не знает счастья только тот,
Кто его зова понять не смог...

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Old 07-19-2008, 01:59 PM
Adam148 Adam148 is a male United Kingdom Adam148 is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
They weren't planning ahead.
Suits me? Stop thinking I really give a crap about this, then you might understand me better.

It's a retcon because the games show it to be. Go complain to the games/developers if you are sick of them retconning.

The skull kid "post MM release", is no longer present in the AT lost woods.
You are trying to combine two worlds, "pre" and "post" MM. You can't.
ok, explain this retcon, because I don't see it.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:00 PM
TheTizzler TheTizzler is a male United States TheTizzler is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
Technically, Adam, by the time of Adult Link in OoT, Termina has already been destroyed.
It wasn't.

Quote:
The HMS is shown to exist somewhat outside of time,
No he's not. He has limited control of time but that's it. Nothing suggests he exists outside of it.

Quote:
not to mention at some point it's implied that there is more than one of them. The skull kid's appearance in the AT would be retconned at the time of MM's release.
I can't tell if you mean there are multiple mask salesmen (which there aren't) or skull kids. Elaborate.

Quote:
One cannot hold something in a game made prior to the existance of another game against the games that come after it.
That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:02 PM
Anann Anann is a female Anann is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Have you played both games?

Then you know that the skull kid identifies himself as the one you meet as a child.
The game also shows what the skull kid does prior to child Link's journey to Termina.
By the time Link gets to Termina it is already too late.

So by the time Link appears in "adult time", Termina has already been destroyed by the moon. Because of the events of MM, his appearance in the AT of OoT, is retconned.

and no, it's not absurd. It's common practice. Especially when the events of a release go against the events of a prior release
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As all gods are of human creation, worshipping an external god is to worship another human by proxy


Ангелы и демоны кружили надо мной
Рассекали тернии и млечные пути
Не знает счастья только тот,
Кто его зова понять не смог...

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Old 07-19-2008, 02:10 PM
Adam148 Adam148 is a male United Kingdom Adam148 is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
Have you played both games?

Then you know that the skull kid identifies himself as the one you meet as a child.
The game also shows what the skull kid does prior to child Link's journey to Termina.
By the time Link gets to Termina it is already too late.

So by the time Link appears in "adult time", Termina has already been destroyed by the moon. Because of the events of MM, his appearance in the AT of OoT, is retconned.

and no, it's not absurd. It's common practice. Especially when the events of a release go against the events of a prior release
The way you're going about it, it sounds like you also believe in a linear timeline.

OK, MM occurs a couple of months after OoT (child ending). Plenty of time for different choices to be made than in the three months later after Link goes into stasis in OoT. HMS may have left and gone to Termina sooner. He may have gone somewhere else entirely.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:13 PM
Anann Anann is a female Anann is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

No, no adam.

You have to observe MM objectively.

In the AT, what Link did in the CT ending have not occured, do not occur.

In the AT, Link isn't able to go to Termina, and save that world. So it's destroyed.

The only reason Link was able to save Termina, is because the timeline split.

In the AT, there is no split basically. Just point A to point B. No way to save Termina, no way to save Hyrule once Ganon broke out, etc. .

Damn time travel crap makes it so convoluted to explain.
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As all gods are of human creation, worshipping an external god is to worship another human by proxy


Ангелы и демоны кружили надо мной
Рассекали тернии и млечные пути
Не знает счастья только тот,
Кто его зова понять не смог...

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Old 07-19-2008, 02:18 PM
Adam148 Adam148 is a male United Kingdom Adam148 is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
No, no adam.

You have to observe MM objectively.

In the AT, what Link did in the CT ending have not occured, do not occur.

In the AT, Link isn't able to go to Termina, and save that world. So it's destroyed.

The only reason Link was able to save Termina, is because the timeline split.

In the AT, there is no split basically. Just point A to point B. No way to save Termina, no way to save Hyrule once Ganon broke out, etc. .

Damn time travel crap makes it so convoluted to explain.
things don't occur the same way they do in the other timeline. Instead of going into stasis, Link tells the king that Ganondorf is up to something. Termina would not have been in danger, because the timelines are not the same. The Termina escapade may not have occured, we just don't know. We don't know if the Skull Kid mugged HMS and stole the MM in the AT, because it is never explained.

Are you on a mission to prove me wrong or something?
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:27 PM
LegendofLex LegendofLex is a male LegendofLex is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
What part of "future games retcon past games" is not making it through to you, so I can explain further?
What part of "no retcon is necessary because of the split timeline" doesn't make sense?

Quote:
Ocarina of Time was made with no anticipation of Majora's Mask being developed, and obviously Nintendo can't travel back in time to "fix the game".
LOL

Time travel is exactly why there is no retcon.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:30 PM
Anann Anann is a female Anann is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Termina was already doomed when Link arrived.

Meaning it was already happening before he pulled the master sword.
By the time he yanks that sword out Termina is gone.

Go back and play the games, take special note of when everything takes place.
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πάντα άγρυπνος
As all gods are of human creation, worshipping an external god is to worship another human by proxy


Ангелы и демоны кружили надо мной
Рассекали тернии и млечные пути
Не знает счастья только тот,
Кто его зова понять не смог...

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Old 07-19-2008, 02:33 PM
Adam148 Adam148 is a male United Kingdom Adam148 is offline
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Re: Termina is probably not destroyed in the adult timeline...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aziel Satori View Post
Termina was already doomed when Link arrived.

Meaning it was already happening before he pulled the master sword.
By the time he yanks that sword out Termina is gone.

Go back and play the games, take special note of when everything takes place.
Termina is doomed, yes, but three months after OoT (child ending). We don't know about the adult timeline.
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