The REVISED Majoraman Timelne Theory

After going at it with Erimgard for a few days, I have come to the conclusion that my timeline is in need of a slight alteration. Here it is before the revision...

......TWW/PH---TMC---FS/FSA---LoZ/AoL
...../
OoT
.....\
......MM---TP---ALttP/OoX/LA

And here is the revised version...

......TWW/PH---TMC---FS/FSA---ALttP/LA---LoZ/AoL
...../
OoT
.....\
......MM---TP/(sequel)---OoX

After debating with Erimgard over the time of the Seal War end the placement of ALttP, I have determined that it is the GBA version in the AT. Having moved ALttP, along with LA, to the AT, a game is now needed to fix the faulty connection between TP and OoX. Nothing can move to the CT.

-ALttP has to be in the AT (see third post in thread)
-The original games stay because of the White Sword

Since nothing can move to fix the connection, we have to wait for a game that will. The full explanation of this timeline is in the third post. I went back and edited this after making that post. I didn't want to type it out again, so you can just scroll right on down and read it there. Please tell me it's okay this time.

Originally Posted by Majoraman

The Revised White Sword Theory
In the GBA version of ALttP, we see the Four Sword lying broken in its temple. The last time the Four Sword was broken, it was repaired to become the White Sword of TMC. Perhaps the Four Sword of ALttP was repaired to become the White Sword of LoZ. Here's my explanation for this...

Eh, not quite.
In tMC, it's actually the broken Picori Blade. The Picori Blade is just a powerful sword, it can't make you split into four or anything like that.
When you take the Picori Blade and infused it with two elements, it becomes the White Sword. When you infused it with two more, for a total of four, it becomes the Four Sword.
I don't think the Four Sword could have been re-forged into the White Sword. It was broken, yes, but it was still infused. It would have to somehow lose two elements to become the White Sword again.

We know that Link touched the Triforce at the end of ALttP. This restored Hyrule, and if I'm correct, Dark World, turning it back into the Sacred Realm, or the Golden Land. During the cedits, we see everything returning to normal. If the Four Sword was broken, mightn't it have been repaired by the restoring magic of the Triforce? I don't see why not. Everything else was restored. It only makes sense that the Four Sword was as well. There are still two inconsistencies between the sword in ALttP and LoZ...

I suppose you could say that. It all depends on exactly what Link's wish was. But I guess I could see it being repaired by Link's Wish.

At the end of ALttP, Link touches the Triforce, which restores yrule and Dark World. At the time he does this, the Four Sword is in Dark World, which becomes the Sacred Realm. If Dark World was restored to the Sacred Realm, wouldn't the broken Four Sword be restored to the White.

I doubt that...Four Sword was an upgrade over the White.
Even if it did return to it's old state, it would become the Picori Blade again, and thus, would need to be re-infused with two elements to become the White Sword.

The you go, Erimgard. Is that better?

So what/when is the Seal War for aLttP SNES, and how are the Ganon and Triforce inconsistencies from TP to aLttP explained? Also, how did Hylians become near-extinct, and how did the language die out?
I know Hombre touches on these a little bit, but I'd like to see your explanations.

I'm not fond of dual-aLttPs, because I believe it was meant as a retcon, not as a new game...the concept of almost the exact same thing happening on different timelines is a little hard to believe for me.
Then again... TP and FSA xD
But at least that has some big differences.

Eh, not quite.
In tMC, it's actually the broken Picori Blade. The Picori Blade is just a powerful sword, it can't make you split into four or anything like that.
When you take the Picori Blade and infused it with two elements, it becomes the White Sword. When you infused it with two more, for a total of four, it becomes the Four Sword.
I don't think the Four Sword could have been re-forged into the White Sword. It was broken, yes, but it was still infused. It would have to somehow lose two elements to become the White Sword again.

Oh. Uhoh, to be precise. That really messes it up. Having to go as far as I did to come up with an explanation is making me realize that there might not be one. Maybe there isn't a connscion between the White Swords. I'm messing everything else up just to get FSA and LoZ in the same timeline. This is going to require some serious thought. I might need to go a new direction.

I suppose you could say that. It all depends on exactly what Link's wish was. But I guess I could see it being repaired by Link's Wish.

I didn't know there was any question as to the restoration of the Sacred Realm. I was tentative because I'd never heard it said by somebody else. I just thought it was an understood thing. Ganon touches the Triforce in OoT and turns the Sacred Realm into Dark World, so wouldn't Link touching the Triforce turn it back again?

I doubt that...Four Sword was an upgrade over the White.
Even if it did return to it's old state, it would become the Picori Blade again, and thus, would need to be re-infused with two elements to become the White Sword.

What I said before.

So what/when is the Seal War for aLttP SNES, and how are the Ganon and Triforce inconsistencies from TP to aLttP explained? Also, how did Hylians become near-extinct, and how did the language die out?
I know Hombre touches on these a little bit, but I'd like to see your explanations.

The SNES Seal War is in-between TP and ALttP. I know the ALttP intro makes it sound like the Seal War was directly after the Imprisoning Wars, but it couldn't have been. Then again, I can't go against an in-game quote. I might have to do something else with ALttP. Since I still need a TP sequel to take care of Ganon and the Triforce, andsince ALttP doesn't work that well here anyway, I might just take ALttP out of the CT again.

I'm not fond of dual-aLttPs, because I believe it was meant as a retcon, not as a new game...the concept of almost the exact same thing happening on different timelines is a little hard to believe for me.
Then again... TP and FSA xD
But at least that has some big differences.

Like I said, the dual-ALttP might go. I pretty much used it out of impatience because I couldn't decide where to put ALttP. I still think it doesn't work too well in either timeline, and since I couldn't decide where it worked least bad, I just put in in both timelines. Not such a good idea, now that I look back on it. I guess this is why I never set out to really figure out how I feel about the timeline until now: it's too much work! How easy is it to say, "I agree with Humulos!" and come up with my own explanation for his timeline? It's pretty easy. I've done it. How hard is it to actually comeup with your own timeline? It's freakin' hard! I'm doing it now. I've come this far, I might as well keep going. I would like to do this...

......TWW/PH---TMC---FS/FSA---LoZ/AoL
...../
OoT
.....\
MM---TP/(sequel)---OoX

and just forget ALttP exists! I hate the game now! I need it to connect FSA to LoZ, but I still think it doesn't work in the AT. We both interpreted a phrase that said the Triforce was still hidden in the Sacred Realm to mean it had never left the Sacred Realm. You thought we could resolve this by making OoT the Seal War. I said that the Seal War had to be between FSA and ALttP because of a quote that said it happened one generation before ALttP. Well, these two statements conflict. The Seal War cannot happen where the quote says it does because the Triforce can't have left the Sacred Realm. The Seal War can't happen where the thing about the Triforce never leaving the Sacred Realm says it have to happen because of the quote that says it happened a generation before ALttP. The statements conflict. Therefore, one of them must be ignored, or reinterpreted. The GBA ALttP manual says...

They created the world that we know and left behind a symbol of their strength, the golden emblem known as the Triforce, which they hid in the golden land. After many years, an opening was found that led from our fair Hyrule to the Golden Land, where the Triforce was still hidden.

That makes it sound like the Triforce never left the Sacred Realm. However, we might be misinterpreting it. I said before that one of the statements would have to be ignored or reinterpreted. I vote reinterpretation. It's better to admit we were wrong than it is to just ignore a quote. Here are some more reasons why the Seal War can not be OoT...

The King of Hyrule gathered the seven sages to find a way to seal the entrance to the Golden Land so that his kingdom would be safe from the evil there. The Sages succeeded and brought peace again to Hyrule.

-The King of Hyrule did not gather the sages. Link did.
-The sages did not seal the entrance to the Golden Land. They sealed Ganon in it.

Those are pretty significant to me. OoT does not sound anything like this account of the Seal War.

Here is a full explanation as to why we misinterpreted the GBA ALttP manual...

According to our interpretation, he manual said that the Triforce never left the Sacred Realm before the Seal War, but the Seal War happened after the Sacred Realm became Dark World. Well, the Triforce left the Sacred Realm at the same moment it became Dark World: When Ganon touched the Triforce, the Sacred Realm turned into Dark World, and the Triforce went into himself, Link, and Zelda. Therfore, unless we have misinterpreted the manual, as I suggested, ALttP can not take place in the AT. Well, we both know it does take place in the AT, since it doesn't work in the CT. Therefore, we misinterpreted the manual of ALttP, and the Seal War happened between FSA and ALttP. Now I'm back to this...

......TWW/PH---TMC---FS/FSA---ALttP/LA---LoZ/AoL
...../
OoT
.....\
......TP---OoX

The problem is the faulty connection between TP and OoX. I could move the original games in between them to fix the connection, or I could wait for the TP sequel and see what it does. Well, since TP---LoZ doesn't really work too well either, I think I'l leave the original games where they are. I'm scrapping the stuff about the White Sword in this thread, now that I know that two elements are needed to make the White Sword. However, I still can't accept it as a coincidence. It is currently unexplained, but I think I'll find something if I play through the GBA ALttP. I'll get it off Ebay. That TP sequel better be on the way. Unless someone's got something to disprove ^that^ timeline, I'm sticking with it for now. I don't know what else to do. Thet one's a little faulty, but from whatI know it's the least faulty. Anything else would have major problems, rather than minor incomsistencies. The Oracles stay in the CT because of Twinrova. ALttP stays in the AT because of the explanation in this post. The original games stay in the AT because of the White Sword. That's it. I don't see anythng that's going to change my mind. All I've got out of this thread is that ALttP is in the AT and nowhere else, but it was enough to solidify my timeline. I will edit the first post to match what I worked out in this post. Done.

Originally Posted by Majoraman

Oh. Uhoh, to be precise. That really messes it up. Having to go as far as I did to come up with an explanation is making me realize that there might not be one. Maybe there isn't a connscion between the White Swords. I'm messing everything else up just to get FSA and LoZ in the same timeline. This is going to require some serious thought. I might need to go a new direction.

Well, FSA and LoZ both fit pretty well on the adult timeline anyway, due to them having blue Ganon and a watery Hyrule, but I don't think a white sword connection is very probable.

I didn't know there was any question as to the restoration of the Sacred Realm. I was tentative because I'd never heard it said by somebody else. I just thought it was an understood thing. Ganon touches the Triforce in OoT and turns the Sacred Realm into Dark World, so wouldn't Link touching the Triforce turn it back again?

Oh the SR is definitely restored. I'm just saying I don't know that his wish would rebuild shattered swords. In fact, it's not even Link's wish that restores the SR...the SR reflects the heart of whoever is "Master" of the Triforce, so just by touching the Triforce, he turned it back to the SR.

I guess this is why I never set out to really figure out how I feel about the timeline until now: it's too much work! How easy is it to say, "I agree with Humulos!" and come up with my own explanation for his timeline? It's pretty easy. I've done it. How hard is it to actually comeup with your own timeline? It's freakin' hard! I'm doing it now. I've come this far, I might as well keep going. I would like to do this...

Indeed. Tis nobler to try an decipher the timeline than to explain someone else's.

......TWW/PH---TMC---FS/FSA---LoZ/AoL
...../
OoT
.....\
MM---TP/(sequel)---OoX

and just forget ALttP exists! I hate the game now!

:O
TAKE IT BACK!!! :'[

I said that the Seal War had to be between FSA and ALttP because of a quote that said it happened one generation before ALttP. Well, these two statements conflict.

Say wha??? :O
The closest thing to that is a guy who tells you the Seal War happened three or four generations ago, and that line was removed in the GBA version taking off any time limit.

-The King of Hyrule did not gather the sages. Link did.

Poetic license really...aLttP says that the legend has become shrouded in the mists of time. It's really an insignificant detail.

-The sages did not seal the entrance to the Golden Land. They sealed Ganon in it.

They did both. Ganon is sealed in it, yes, but the entrance is sealed. Nothing that goes in can get out [until WW when Ganon finds some way to escape]

Those are pretty significant to me. OoT does not sound anything like this account of the Seal War.

The game designers themselves confirmed that when making the game, Shigeru told them they had to make it to be the Imprisoning/Seal War. There are some slight inaccuracies, yes, but that's for gameplay reasons and can be explained away as the mists of time. If it's good enough to be the Seal War to Shigeru Miyamoto, it's good enough to me.

According to our interpretation, he manual said that the Triforce never left the Sacred Realm before the Seal War, but the Seal War happened after the Sacred Realm became Dark World. Well, the Triforce left the Sacred Realm at the same moment it became Dark World: When Ganon touched the Triforce, the Sacred Realm turned into Dark World, and the Triforce went into himself, Link, and Zelda. Therfore, unless we have misinterpreted the manual, as I suggested, ALttP can not take place in the AT. Well, we both know it does take place in the AT, since it doesn't work in the CT. Therefore, we misinterpreted the manual of ALttP, and the Seal War happened between FSA and ALttP. Now I'm back to this...

Eh, sounds shaky to me.
I much prefer OoT as the seal war, but FSA Ganondorf as the second time Ganon entered the SR [which is why the GBA version takes him out of the Seal War story, because it's no longer relevant. All that's relevant is the seal itself]

......TWW/PH---TMC---FS/FSA---ALttP/LA---LoZ/AoL
...../
OoT
.....\
......TP---OoX

Well, assuming a new game comes to your aid, that timeline is fine in my eyes. Cross your fingers for the next game giving the Triforce to the Royal Family, and the Trident to Twinrova/Ganon?

I don't like timelines that rely on a non-existent sequel, especially when the differences between the games that sandwich said hypothetic sequel are pretty big.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

I don't like timelines that rely on a non-existent sequel, especially when the differences between the games that sandwich said hypothetic sequel are pretty big.

What do you suggest, then? You want me to move the original games down to the CT? TP---LoZ is no better than TP---OoX.

Originally Posted by Majoraman

What do you suggest, then? You want me to move the original games down to the CT? TP---LoZ is no better than TP---OoX.

Yes it is because in the beginning of LoZ Zelda has the TOW just like TP and the last owner of the TOP in TP was Ganondorf.

Originally Posted by nokotin

Yes it is because in the beginning of LoZ Zelda has the TOW just like TP and the last owner of the TOP in TP was Ganondorf.

If you believe the AoL Manual to be canon [and I believe Majoraman does] then all three pieces have to be owned by a King of Hyrule before LoZ.

I'm just saying TP - LOZ makes more sense than TP - OOX

Originally Posted by nokotin

I'm just saying TP - LOZ makes more sense than TP - OOX

Not a heck of a lot more sense though. Either way, the Triforce has to be complete and given to the King, or put in a castle/temple. Both games start with the Triforce complete [at least in the backstory] and TP ends with it split.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Not a heck of a lot more sense though. Either way, the Triforce has to be complete and given to the King, or put in a castle/temple. Both games start with the Triforce complete [at least in the backstory] and TP ends with it split.

Well it has more potential sense. If the backstory isn't true then it actually somewhat works. It all depends if you believe the backstory or not.

Even if the AoL Backstory isn't true, TP's ending doesn't match up with LoZ.
Because LoZ states that Ganon stole the ToP. No such stealing is present in TP.

Well he did aquire it somehow in TP. We don't know if he stole it or not but there's no evidence against it (except for the fact that he seems oblivious that he has it during the excecution scene). He might have attempted to get the triforce in OOT (CT), The sages were ready for this so they caught him, tried to execute him, found out he actually was succesful in getting it and you know the rest. Wow... why am I trying to defend something I don't even believe in?

The divine prank could be worded as stealing a few hundred years later, since nobody really knew what happened there.

Another option is that Ganondorf actually did lose the ToP at the end of TP. That'd go perfectly with the backstory of AoL. Though this could also be used to argue for TP---OoX

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Eh, not quite.
In tMC, it's actually the broken Picori Blade. The Picori Blade is just a powerful sword, it can't make you split into four or anything like that.
When you take the Picori Blade and infused it with two elements, it becomes the White Sword. When you infused it with two more, for a total of four, it becomes the Four Sword.
I don't think the Four Sword could have been re-forged into the White Sword. It was broken, yes, but it was still infused. It would have to somehow lose two elements to become the White Sword again.

That's not entirely true. I've played about half of the Minish Cap recently. When you get the Picori Blade fixed, the item screen calles it the White Sword. When you infuse it with two elements the item screen says White Sword (two elements. When you infuse the third it is White Sword (three elements).


Edit: I couldn't remember if Melari said it too, but apparently he did:

Originally posted by Melari:
Wow! That was fast work! But not so fast that I didn't finish your
sword! Here, take a look! I call this blade the White Sword!

You got the White Sword! Its beautiful white blade sparkles with light!
You can put away your grandfather's sword now.

I'm not saying I agree with it being the same sword as in LoZ, but it is still possible. I don't think it is, though.

Aye, thanks for the correction, but the point still stands. Picori blade turns into white sword. It's not just the broken four sword repaired, it's the broken Picori Blade.

So, if as Majoraman suggests, the shattered Four Sword is changed back to normal at the end of aLttP, it would have to:

Turn back into the Picori Blade
Get shattered again
Get fixed, and re-named the White Sword [again]
End up in the hands of an old man in a cave

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Eh, not quite.
In tMC, it's actually the broken Picori Blade. The Picori Blade is just a powerful sword, it can't make you split into four or anything like that.
When you take the Picori Blade and infused it with two elements, it becomes the White Sword. When you infused it with two more, for a total of four, it becomes the Four Sword.
I don't think the Four Sword could have been re-forged into the White Sword. It was broken, yes, but it was still infused. It would have to somehow lose two elements to become the White Sword again.

Again not quite the white sword is the repaired version of the picori blade the red sword or what ever it's called the sword that is red is the one that you get after infussing the two elements together. I'm not sure if it affects anything at all, but you might want to know that.

Yeah, "Triforce of the Gods" set me straight.
Either way, a white sword connection is highly improbable.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Aye, thanks for the correction, but the point still stands. Picori blade turns into white sword. It's not just the broken four sword repaired, it's the broken Picori Blade.

So, if as Majoraman suggests, the shattered Four Sword is changed back to normal at the end of aLttP, it would have to:

Turn back into the Picori Blade
Get shattered again
Get fixed, and re-named the White Sword [again]
End up in the hands of an old man in a cave

It's not that it works particularly well. Not putting the original games in the AT would be like not putting the GBA ALttP in the AT. The Four Sword is in that version of ALttP, so it goes in the same timeline as the Vaati Trilogy. The White Sword, which is technically the same thing as the Four Sword, is in LoZ, so it goes in the same timeline as the Vaati Trilogy too. The only difference is that the Four Sword in ALttP is explained better than the White Sword in LoZ. Well, actually it isn't. At the end of FSA, the Four Sword was sealed in its pedestal in one piece. Yet in ALttP, it's in the Temple of the Four Sword in Dark World in pieces. So there's nothing wrong with the Four Sword connecting FSA and LoZ, even though its condition and location between he games don't match up But the White Sword connecting ALttP and LoZ, which is not any less explained than the Four Sword connecting FSA and ALttP, is highly unlikely? Did I miss something?

Well, FSA and LoZ both fit pretty well on the adult timeline anyway, due to them having blue Ganon and a watery Hyrule, but I don't think a white sword connection is very probable.

Thanks.

Oh the SR is definitely restored. I'm just saying I don't know that his wish would rebuild shattered swords. In fact, it's not even Link's wish that restores the SR...the SR reflects the heart of whoever is "Master" of the Triforce, so just by touching the Triforce, he turned it back to the SR.

Okay. I get really confised by the Master Sword cutscene in OoT. I've watched it at least twenty times, but I still don't get it as well as I'd like to.

:O
TAKE IT BACK!!! :'[

When it comes to theorizing. It's still my favorite 2D game.

Say wha??? :O
The closest thing to that is a guy who tells you the Seal War happened three or four generations ago, and that line was removed in the GBA version taking off any time limit.

Oh. I read this wrong.

One person in the Dark World tells you it's been at least 3 or 4 generations [though I've been told, but not shown proof, that this was a mistranslation], and in the GBA version, he eliminates any time restraints by just saying it was generations ago.

I read it as "one generation ago" instead of "generations ago." I don't know why, but I did. Maybe it's because it's what I wanted to see. Anyway, OoT doesn't work very well as the Seal War any way.

Poetic license really...aLttP says that the legend has become shrouded in the mists of time. It's really an insignificant detail.

The SNES manual talks about the legend being shrouded in the mists of time, but I didn't see that anywhere in the GBA manual you gave me a link to. And insignificant no. We're talking about who saved Hyrule here! The king wasn't involved at all.

They did both. Ganon is sealed in it, yes, but the entrance is sealed. Nothing that goes in can get out [until WW when Ganon finds some way to escape]

True.

The game designers themselves confirmed that when making the game, Shigeru told them they had to make it to be the Imprisoning/Seal War. There are some slight inaccuracies, yes, but that's for gameplay reasons and can be explained away as the mists of time. If it's good enough to be the Seal War to Shigeru Miyamoto, it's good enough to me.

It wasn't good enough for Miyamoto. He had the designers that he himself told to make ALttP as the backstory make a new version and manual of ALttP to cover up the idea that OoT might be the backstory. I agree it could be OoT if we're dealing with the SNES version, but the FSA backstory doesn't work as OoT.

Eh, sounds shaky to me.
I much prefer OoT as the seal war, but FSA Ganondorf as the second time Ganon entered the SR [which is why the GBA version takes him out of the Seal War story, because it's no longer relevant. All that's relevant is the seal itself]

You keep saying that. Are you saying that Ganon is no longer relevant because OoT covered it? Why does that matter? There are problems (the ones I pointed out) with OoT as the Seal War. There are no problems with the Seal War between FSA and ALttP, unless you see any. Ergo, the Seal War is between FSA and ALttP. Why would we say OoT is the Seal War when we can stay truer to the Seal War by placing it where it makes sense, between FSA and ALttP?

Well, assuming a new game comes to your aid, that timeline is fine in my eyes. Cross your fingers for the next game giving the Triforce to the Royal Family, and the Trident to Twinrova/Ganon?

Well, since I can't do anything else, (and I've already explained why) Yes. If the game happens to connect TP to LoZ, I'll move the original games back down to the CT. If, however, it helps with TP---OoX, I'm leaving my timeline alone. I'd like to see a timeline with perfect connections and none that rely on unreleased games. Do you have one?