The REVISED Majoraman Timelne Theory

Is it worth noting to Majoraman the connections between TMC and OoX? Suggesting that it (perhaps along with LoZ/AoL) may fall after PH?

Originally Posted by dallascowboy927

Is it worth noting to Majoraman the connections between TMC and OoX? Suggesting that it (perhaps along with LoZ/AoL) may fall after PH?

You shouldn't talk about somebody behind their back, especially on a public forum where they can see what you wrote.

Just for the record, I've never played TMC or OoX, and no one's ever bothered to explain their connections to me. I'd love to hear them.

Oh wait a minute. I just remembered why OoX can't be in the AT. TWINROVA! If you had bothered to read the other thread I launched before this one, you would know why I think the Oracles have to be in the AT. Also, now that I no longer believe in the possibility of reforging the Master Sword, I don't think the Oracles can be after ALttP either, so you can forget about a placement even in the same timeline as TMC.

TMC---FS/FSA---ALttP

I'm not changing that. Since I believe the Oracles can not be after ALttP because of their having the Master Sword, they can be no time after TMC.

Ohhhhh. Did you mean before TMC. That would do it. Sorry about ^that.^ I never even thought about the possibility of there being something between TWW and TMC. I dunno why. I tend to miss things like that. I don't see any problem with placing the Oracles before TMC, except maybe the conditions of Ganon and the Triforce, but I know you better than to ignore something like that, so now I'm just waiting to hear your explanation. I'm not going to apologize again for getting mad, since you were the one who fired the first shot. I just want you yo know I don't have a problem with you. I think you're pretty cool actually, but I will get mad if you call me out for no reason. If I did something to make you mad, I'm sorry.

O dude u totally misread what i said, i was merely asking if it was worth pointing out the connections to you or if someone like Erim already explained them to you and you consider them cameos, i was just trying to help ur placement of other games lol not talk about u or anything.

Anyway with OoX, Twinrova DID promise to come back and haunt you lol, for what thats worth, i use it to bypass the need to keep OoX in CT. Anyway here are 4 Things i use to include OoX (and possibly LoZ/AoL) before TMC. And Erimgard better back me up on this crap lol.

We translated the books on another forum in the Minish Cap's library from Hylian to Japanese: the titles of 2 of the books were as follows:

Triumph Forks
and Fruit of the Mysterious Tree (the Japanese name for the OoX games)

Also, in TMC the 3 Oracles are there looking for houses in Hyrule. Nayru's figurine states that she is from a line of Oracles from Labrynna.

Also, here's where it gets weird, i use Freshly Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland (The Freshly Picked Oracles Timeline is something u missed while u were gone lol). In the game there is an obvious Subrosian who refers to helping a Hero long ago. The Subrosian now works in a Salon and is called a Salona though, but if you play the game you cant mistake the fact that he is a Subrosian. Also, the world of FPTRRL is composed of several small continents with names such as Lon Lon Meadows and a Mountain that is said to have previously been called the Mountain of Death. Erim and I just believe that FPTRRL is in the process of bringing the Islands together like the Deku Tree says. The State of the Triforce is strange and Erim im sure would be more than happy to pitch ideas about it to you, but those are just the connections between OoX and TMC for you.

Also the fact that the Zora Elder found the sword that becomes the Master Sword in the game 400 years before hand might help this theory too, since it would be at the bottom of the sea for at the end of WW.

If you get time, search back in the boards our debates about FPTRRL and specifically the Freshly Picked Oracles Timeline, Erim and I follow the timeline:
...../WW-PH-LoZ-AoL-OoX-(FPTRRL)-TMC-FS-FSA-ALttP-LA
OoT
.....\MM-TP

I'm not so sure about the Triforce, all i can say is that the Triforce flies away at the end of WW. I have a belief that WW Link and Tetra find the Triforce and use it to govern the new land they find and that the King from the AoL backstory is that Link. Also it would make sense regarding the "Legend of Zelda" since Tetra hates being called Zelda, its likely that she was Queen Tetra, but named her daughter Zelda and this Zelda is the one cursed by the Wizard, therefore in a sense, she was the first Zelda, but there is no in game evidence to back this up specifically, just an educated theory.

Regarding Ganon, I believe either that Ganondorf's body is dead but the spirit of Ganon (who never revealed itself in WW) lives on to LoZ, or that Ganondorf is reborn/revived and becomes Ganon when he steals the ToP before LoZ. Usually hard to explain Ganon rebirths anyway.

Originally Posted by Majoraman

The SNES manual talks about the legend being shrouded in the mists of time, but I didn't see that anywhere in the GBA manual you gave me a link to. And insignificant no. We're talking about who saved Hyrule here! The king wasn't involved at all.

A: All the GBA Manual says is that the Sacred Realm turned evil and was sealed by seven sages...there's absolutely no conflict between the manual and OoT.
B: The quote about the mists of time is in the game itself, not the manual. It is in both versions.

It wasn't good enough for Miyamoto. He had the designers that he himself told to make ALttP as the backstory make a new version and manual of ALttP to cover up the idea that OoT might be the backstory. I agree it could be OoT if we're dealing with the SNES version, but the FSA backstory doesn't work as OoT.

If he wanted to say OoT wasn't the Seal War, why did he specifically say the Triforce never left the Sacred Realm before the Seal War? Ocarina of Time is the only game that the Seal War could be if aLttP is on the adult timeline.

You keep saying that. Are you saying that Ganon is no longer relevant because OoT covered it? Why does that matter? There are problems (the ones I pointed out) with OoT as the Seal War. There are no problems with the Seal War between FSA and ALttP, unless you see any. Ergo, the Seal War is between FSA and ALttP. Why would we say OoT is the Seal War when we can stay truer to the Seal War by placing it where it makes sense, between FSA and ALttP?

Ocarina of Time Ganon/dorf is not relevant, so he is removed from the Seal War. All that's important is:
A: Triforce had never left the SR [only OoT fits this]
B: Sacred Realm turned evil [only happens in OoT]
C: Seven sages sealed off the SR/DR [only happens in OoT]

From the game, we learn that FSA Ganon is now stuck in the SR. But, since FSA Ganondorf entering the Sacred Realm and OoT Ganondorf entering the Sacred Realm are two separate events, and only one [FSA] is relevant to the plot of OoT, OoT Ganondorf is taken out of the manual.


There is no perfect timeline. Fact.
As Dallas has stated, I follow this timeline:
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...-timeline.html

A number of things in MC hint at a post-OoX placement, and if you accept FPTRR as canon or at least semi-canon, it too hints at OoX being post-flood and pre-MC.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Ocarina of Time is the only game that the Seal War could be if aLttP is on the adult timeline.

If a game has to be the seal war. Though I assume it'll have to be, if that quote about the Triforce never leaving the SR prior to the SW is correct.

Here's something for you to ponder. Or not, I just got struck by the thought. Why is the incident knows as the Seal War? The events of OoT don't resemble a war at all, nor did tWW's legends portray it as anything close to it. Now, my ALttP expertise is close to non-existent, but the backstory could very well have described an actual war.

I'm not going anywhere with this, just thinking.

There is no perfect timeline. Fact.

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...-revealed.html

aLttP tells us the Knights were wiped out.
SNES versions says it was protecting the sages, but GBA version doesn't specify. So there was a war, likely during Ganondorf's seven year reign. The climax of that being Link/the sages sealing Ganon.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

aLttP tells us the Knights were wiped out.
SNES versions says it was protecting the sages, but GBA version doesn't specify. So there was a war, likely during Ganondorf's seven year reign. The climax of that being Link/the sages sealing Ganon.

Ya, but it bothers me that there is no mention whatsoever of any such knights in OoT. There is actually no mention of any kind of struggle. And if the knights were wiped out, it would've been before Link entered the SR, when Ganondorf made his little coup, making Zelda escape from the castle. Then I guess there is a possibility of the knights being out of town...

Had the knights been protecting the sages, it'd be the old sages who were most likely killed by Ganny Man while Link was asleep. Though they weren't the same sages who sealed him.

In the Child side of OoT, we see lots of Knights/Soldiers.
The shields in OoT are described as being used by Hylian Knights.
In the middle of the game, right before you pull the MS for the first time, there's a wounded Knight/Soldier in an alley who talks about fighting Ganondorf's followers.
In the Adult side, there are no more Knights/Soldiers.

I'd say it's safe to assume Ganondorf eradicated them.

A: All the GBA Manual says is that the Sacred Realm turned evil and was sealed by seven sages...there's absolutely no conflict between the manual and OoT.
B: The quote about the mists of time is in the game itself, not the manual. It is in both versions.

Did you forget about the king thing already?

If he wanted to say OoT wasn't the Seal War, why did he specifically say the Triforce never left the Sacred Realm before the Seal War? Ocarina of Time is the only game that the Seal War could be if aLttP is on the adult timeline.

I don't get why the Seal War has to be a game. I've already given you the problems with OoT being the Seal War. Since the Seal War doesn't have to be a game, it makes sense to place it between FSA and ALttP. There is nothing wrong with that placement. If it works better than OoT, which it does, why not accept it?

Ocarina of Time Ganon/dorf is not relevant, so he is removed from the Seal War. All that's important is:
A: Triforce had never left the SR [only OoT fits this]
B: Sacred Realm turned evil [only happens in OoT]
C: Seven sages sealed off the SR/DR [only happens in OoT]

Why is Ganon irrelevant? That's my only question.

From the game, we learn that FSA Ganon is now stuck in the SR. But, since FSA Ganondorf entering the Sacred Realm and OoT Ganondorf entering the Sacred Realm are two separate events, and only one [FSA] is relevant to the plot of OoT, OoT Ganondorf is taken out of the manual.

Did you mean the plot of ALttP? So that's why Ganon is irrelevant. It doesn't matter that he was sealed there in OoT because he was sealed there again in FSA, and that was the seal that had to do with ALttP. Gotcha.

There is no perfect timeline. Fact.
As Dallas has stated, I follow this timeline:
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/...-timeline.html

Oh. I might have known. Really, the only difference between that and mine is the placement of the original games. This is due to the White Sword. If the awaited T sequel connects TP to LoZ, I'll go back to that. If it connects TP to OoX, I'm leaving the Oracles where they are.

A number of things in MC hint at a post-OoX placement, and if you accept FPTRR as canon or at least semi-canon, it too hints at OoX being post-flood and pre-MC.

Okay, that helped. "A number of things." Now I understand perfectly the connections for TWW---OoX--TMC. Thanks for filling me in. Now I understand how the Triforce got to Hyrule Castle between TWW and OoX, and how the Master Sword got from Ganon's head to Labrynna or Holodrum, and how Twinrova is alive. Yep, I'm ready to move the Oracles between TWW and TMC.

I'm being serious now. Do you really think a game called "Freshly Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland" is even semi-canon? I don't want to make any accusations, but using FPTRR to connect OoX to TMC seems like an excuse to do something different with a timeline. Common sense is the key when deciding which games are canon.

Originally Posted by Majoraman

Did you forget about the king thing already?

"obscured by the mists of time"
If it's good enough for Shigeru, it's good enough for me.

I don't get why the Seal War has to be a game. I've already given you the problems with OoT being the Seal War. Since the Seal War doesn't have to be a game, it makes sense to place it between FSA and ALttP. There is nothing wrong with that placement. If it works better than OoT, which it does, why not accept it?

It doesn't make more sense between FSA and aLttP, nor is it possible. The Triforce has already left the Sacred Realm then.

If the Seal War happens pre-OoT, then the SR would be sealed during OoT. It's not.
If the Seal War happens post-OoT, then the GBA manual is lying about the Triforce never leaving the Sacred Realm.

Why is Ganon irrelevant? That's my only question.

Because he's not in the SR.
OoT Ganon died, and was likely reincarnated [as FSA Ganondorf]
FSA Ganondorf/Ganon is the one who is sealed in the SR.

Did you mean the plot of ALttP? So that's why Ganon is irrelevant. It doesn't matter that he was sealed there in OoT because he was sealed there again in FSA, and that was the seal that had to do with ALttP. Gotcha.

Exactly
EDIT: Wait...not exactly xD
That was the GANON that had to do with aLttP. The Seal is still the seal from OoT.

Okay, that helped. "A number of things." Now I understand perfectly the connections for TWW---OoX--TMC. Thanks for filling me in. Now I understand how the Triforce got to Hyrule Castle between TWW and OoX, and how the Master Sword got from Ganon's head to Labrynna or Holodrum, and how Twinrova is alive. Yep, I'm ready to move the Oracles between TWW and TMC.

Did I say "move them there or else" ??
I didn't even tell you where to put the Oracles.
Dallas already touched on the OoX-MC relations, so I didn't think I'd have to reiterate, but obviously, I do.

-There are books in the Minish Cap library that have the titles of the Oracle games on them
-Din, Nayru, and Farore, the Oracles, are all in Hyrule during MC looking for new homes. We are specifically told that Din/Nayru are from Holodrum and Labrynna [the lands of OoX]
-Presence of Maku Trees could be a hint at the Deku Tree's success in Wind Waker
-FPTRR talks about the events of OoX in past tense, and Hyrule is a series of Islands with familiar names [Lon Lon Meadow, Deku Forest, a mountain that was once called "Death Mountain" in the past]

I'm being serious now. Do you really think a game called "Freshly Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland" is even semi-canon? I don't want to make any accusations, but using FPTRR to connect OoX to TMC seems like an excuse to do something different with a timeline. Common sense is the key when deciding which games are canon.

And what exactly is non-canon about the game? If it was not meant to have any bearing on the plot, why did they:

1: Explain the origin of Tingle, and how he can be in different games.
2: Make references to OoX
3: Present Hyrule as a series of islands with names similar to geographical features in FSA/aLttP
4: Include a Deku forest and Deku tree

[points 3 and 4 helping show the Koroks success]

And as I've said in my thread, there are other reasons besides FPTRR for a post-flood, pre-MC OoX placement...particularly the references to it in MC and the possible reference to it in FSA.

"obscured by the mists of time" If it's good enough for Shigeru, it's good enough for me.

Once again, it wasn't good enough for Shigeru. That's why he had the GBA version made: to get rid of the idea that OoT could be the Seal War.

It doesn't make more sense between FSA and aLttP, nor is it possible. The Triforce has already left the Sacred Realm then.

The Triforce had already left the Sacred Realm before the seal in OoT, too. Therefore, if we don't ignore the Triforce leaving the Sacred Realm, then ALttP can not take place in the AT.

If the Seal War happens pre-OoT, then the SR would be sealed during OoT. It's not.
If the Seal War happens post-OoT, then the GBA manual is lying about the Triforce never leaving the Sacred Realm.

The manual is "lying" no matter what. The Triforce left the Sacred Realm in OoT, not before it.

Because he's not in the SR.
OoT Ganon died, and was likely reincarnated [as FSA Ganondorf]
FSA Ganondorf/Ganon is the one who is sealed in the SR.

I get that.

Exactly
EDIT: Wait...not exactly xD
That was the GANON that had to do with aLttP. The Seal is still the seal from OoT.

Whoa, WHOA, WHOA! Say what? So now, to make the Seal War OoT, you're having to explain how Ganon escaped the Sacred Realm between OoT and TWW without breaking the seal? Hmmm.

Did I say "move them there or else" ??

No, but Dallas pretty much did.

I didn't even tell you where to put the Oracles.
Dallas already touched on the OoX-MC relations, so I didn't think I'd have to reiterate, but obviously, I do.

-There are books in the Minish Cap library that have the titles of the Oracle games on them
-Din, Nayru, and Farore, the Oracles, are all in Hyrule during MC looking for new homes. We are specifically told that Din/Nayru are from Holodrum and Labrynna [the lands of OoX]
-Presence of Maku Trees could be a hint at the Deku Tree's success in Wind Waker
-FPTRR talks about the events of OoX in past tense, and Hyrule is a series of Islands with familiar names [Lon Lon Meadow, Deku Forest, a mountain that was once called "Death Mountain" in the past]

Your second point is very convincing. I'll have to think about this. However, I still think there has to be at least one game between TWW and OoX, if you want the Vaati trilogy to stay post-flood, like almost everyone, excluding mohammedali, thinks it should. TWW---OoX is too faulty.

And what exactly is non-canon about the game? If it was not meant to have any bearing on the plot, why did they:

1: Explain the origin of Tingle, and how he can be in different games.
2: Make references to OoX
3: Present Hyrule as a series of islands with names similar to geographical features in FSA/aLttP
4: Include a Deku forest and Deku tree

[points 3 and 4 helping show the Koroks success]

And as I've said in my thread, there are other reasons besides FPTRR for a post-flood, pre-MC OoX placement...particularly the references to it in MC and the possible reference to it in FSA.

I didn't even know FPTRR had a plot or storyline. I thought it was kind of like a game-and-watch. I guess I was too quick too assume it wasn't a canon game. I still don't think it's fully canon, but semi is a possiblity.

Would you mind posting the FSA reference to OoX? I'm trying to think of what it might be, but nothing comes to mind. I'm really curious.

Originally Posted by Majoraman

Once again, it wasn't good enough for Shigeru. That's why he had the GBA version made: to get rid of the idea that OoT could be the Seal War.

Nothing in the GBA version implies that OoT can't be the Seal War. In fact, if anything, it helps it out, by removing the time limit of when the war happened.

The Triforce had already left the Sacred Realm before the seal in OoT, too.
Therefore, if we don't ignore the Triforce leaving the Sacred Realm, then ALttP can not take place in the AT.

No it hadn't. Nothing says the Triforce ever left the SR before OoT.

The manual is "lying" no matter what. The Triforce left the Sacred Realm in OoT, not before it.

No, it's not lying. If OoT is the Seal War, it goes perfectly with aLttP saying that the Triforce was still remaining there since creation. Nothing says the Triforce left the SR before OoT, but obviously, it did during/after. Thus, if the manual is true, then the Seal War cannot happen post-OoT.

Whoa, WHOA, WHOA! Say what? So now, to make the Seal War OoT, you're having to explain how Ganon escaped the Sacred Realm between OoT and TWW without breaking the seal? Hmmm.

WW never says he broke the seal, he just escaped.
In fact, the Hylian text in the background of the Wind Waker intro has been translated, and it literally explains his reappearance as being "revived for no reason".
No reason is given for how Ganon returned, we just know he did. In aLttP, he makes a huge deal about breaking a Seal cast by Seven Sages...and OoT is the only incident in all Zelda history where we see such a seal being cast.

Your second point is very convincing. I'll have to think about this. However, I still think there has to be at least one game between TWW and OoX, if you want the Vaati trilogy to stay post-flood, like almost everyone, excluding mohammedali, thinks it should. TWW---OoX is too faulty.

I place LoZ-AoL in between them myself.

Would you mind posting the FSA reference to OoX? I'm trying to think of what it might be, but nothing comes to mind. I'm really curious.

I believe it's Zelda's description of Ganon...anyway, it's a highly touchy subject, because NoA translates the line as something like
"Wielder of the Trident, the ancient demon reborn from ancient times"
However, Jumbie, a well-respected translator who has found many NoA mistakes/censors that are plot relevant, believes it is more accurately:

"King of Darkness… The man who took the Trident, the evil device (ja-ki) of the demon resurrected from ancient times!!"

The context is a little hard to decipher, so we can't really tell if it's saying the Trident was resurrected, of if the Demon was resurrected. Either way though, it's referring to the Trident that Ganon now holds as being used by a Demon in the past. I believe this to be a reference to OoX Ganon, who had the Trident, and was a demon resurrected from ancient times.

[QUOTE=Erimgard;2220774]Nothing in the GBA version implies that OoT can't be the Seal War. In fact, if anything, it helps it out, by removing the time limit of when the war happened.

Possibly, but I'll see what you said about Ganon's escape from the SR between OoT and TWW before agreeing with that.

No it hadn't. Nothing says the Triforce ever left the SR before OoT.

Not before, during.

No, it's not lying. If OoT is the Seal War, it goes perfectly with aLttP saying that the Triforce was still remaining there since creation. Nothing says the Triforce left the SR before OoT, but obviously, it did during/after. Thus, if the manual is true, then the Seal War cannot happen post-OoT.

After many years, an opening was found that led from our fair Hyrule to the Golden Land where the Triforce was still hidden. Many sought treasure in this place, but none returned -- only beings of great evil emerged from the Golden Land.

1. Triforce has never left SR
2. SR is already Dark World
3. Opening is found

According to the manual, the opening to the Sacred Realm is found after the SR is turned into Dark World, but before the Triforce leaves the Sacred Realm.
Here is an order of events from OoT...

1. Opening is found
2. SR is turned into Dark World and Triforce leaves SR

#2 is one event because both parts of it happened at the same moment, when Ganon touched the Triforce. According to the manual, the opening was found after the SR became Dark World. In OoT, the opening is found before the SR is turned into Dark World.

So the thing in the manual about the Triforce is true, if the Seal War is OoT. However, the Seal War can't be OoT, because the condition of the SR, Dark World, is not in agreemaent with the manual. If you can find a way to convince me that I have misinterpreted the manual and the SR is not Dark World before OoT, you win. If not, well...

I just can't see beings of great evil emerging from the SR if it isn't Dark World.

WW never says he broke the seal, he just escaped.
In fact, the Hylian text in the background of the Wind Waker intro has been translated, and it literally explains his reappearance as being "revived for no reason".
No reason is given for how Ganon returned, we just know he did. In aLttP, he makes a huge deal about breaking a Seal cast by Seven Sages...and OoT is the only incident in all Zelda history where we see such a seal being cast.

You yourself explained to me that the sages sealed Ganon in the SR as well as placing a seal

on

the SR. How could Ganon escape the SR without breaking the seal that put him it it? If you put water into a bottle and cap it, you have to take off the cap to get the water out, unless you break open the bottle. I don't think Ganon could break open the SR. He would have to break the seal.

I believe it's Zelda's description of Ganon...anyway, it's a highly touchy subject, because NoA translates the line as something like
"Wielder of the Trident, the ancient demon reborn from ancient times"
However, Jumbie, a well-respected translator who has found many NoA mistakes/censors that are plot relevant, believes it is more accurately:

"King of Darkness… The man who took the Trident, the evil device (ja-ki) of the demon resurrected from ancient times!!"

The context is a little hard to decipher, so we can't really tell if it's saying the Trident was resurrected, of if the Demon was resurrected. Either way though, it's referring to the Trident that Ganon now holds as being used by a Demon in the past. I believe this to be a reference to OoX Ganon, who had the Trident, and was a demon resurrected from ancient times.

Oh, that. A little shaky, but there nonetheless. Jumbie's translation, however, is different. It says that the device of the resurrected demon was now in the hands of the King of Darkness. So the Ganon that had the trident was resurrected. Then he died, lost the Trident, and it was put in a pyramid where FSA Ganon found it. Alright. We need to look at the Ganons that had the Trident...

OoX
LoZ
ALttP

Aye, those be the games you place between the Vaati Trilogy and TWW...interesting. Jumbie's interpretation also makes it sound like the demon that weilded the Trident had been resurrected from ancient times. I don't see how LoZ is ancient times if OoX isn't. All due respect to Jumbie, but I've never heard of him and have no reason to trust him any more than NoA, so I'll stick with what's in the game. I don't remember what it says exactly, but I'll do my best...

"Ganon, King of Darkness, weilder of the Trident, ancient demon reborn!"

So he's an ancient demon reborn, and he used the Trident to become the King of Darkness. At least that's what makes the most sense to me. Either that or he's an ancient demon reborn, and the ancient demon was the King of Darkness and the weilder of the Trident. I don't think it makes sense that the ancient demon was the King of Darkness, because Zelda thought Vaati was the King of Darkness before seeing Ganon. It sounds like she's just now realizing that Ganon is the King of Darkness. So "King of Darkness" applies to FSA Ganon, rather than the ancient demon. If the ancient demon is OoX Ganon, as you believe, weilder of the Trident works, but I think it sounds like being the weilder of the Trident is what made Ganon King of Darkness. So if the ancient demon was not the King of Darkness, which I don't think he was, he didn't weild the Trident either. The ancient demon is sounding more and more like OoT/TWW Ganon than LoZ/AoL---OoX Ganon.

As for Din and Nayru in TMC, I still think they are the goddesses embodied, so they could appear wherever they want. I don't think they've simply named themselves after their goddeses. I haven't named myself Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit because he's the god (being the only god there is) that I serve. It's more likely that the Oracles are the goddesses or that the goddesses are at least involved with the Oracles, other than speaking to them, somehow.

That's my case.

[QUOTE=Majoraman;2221225]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

1. Triforce has never left SR
2. SR is already Dark World
3. Opening is found

According to the manual, the opening to the Sacred Realm is found after the SR is turned into Dark World, but before the Triforce leaves the Sacred Realm.
Here is an order of events from OoT...

Wha...?
The GBA manual says the entrance was found, evil emerged, and seven sages sealed it off...how does that conflict with OoT?
And the manual also never states if the Triforce left the SR during/after the Seal War.

I just can't see beings of great evil emerging from the SR if it isn't Dark World.

Yes, but it says that line right after saying the entrance had been discovered. It was discovered, because of that beings of great evil emerged, then it was sealed.

You yourself explained to me that the sages sealed Ganon in the SR as well as placing a seal the SR. How could Ganon escape the SR without breaking the seal that put him it it? If you put water into a bottle and cap it, you have to take off the cap to get the water out, unless you break open the bottle. I don't think Ganon could break open the SR. He would have to break the seal.

aLttP shows us two examples of leaving the SR/DR without breaking the seal.
Link uses the magic mirror to escape, even though the seal is still in tact.
Also, while NoA refers to Aganhim as an alter-ego or even a pawn, the Japanese word used is "Bunshin". This translates to "soul split" and is the exact same term used to describe what happened when Ciela split her soul in order to escape a seal put on her in PH. So Aganhim is actually half of Ganon's soul that somehow escaped the Seal and then proceeded to try and break the seal to let the other half out.

I'm not saying that's the method Ganon used pre-WW, because we really don't know. Like I said, the Hylian text in the WW prologue basically says no one knows how he returned. If he was successful at kidnapping all the sages/descendants of sages, dragging them into the dark world, and sacrificing them to break the seal...you think they'd make that a little clearer. According to aLttP, that's the only way for the seal to be broken.

Oh, that. A little shaky, but there nonetheless. Jumbie's translation, however, is different. It says that the device of the resurrected demon was now in the hands of the King of Darkness. So the Ganon that had the trident was resurrected. Then he died, lost the Trident, and it was put in a pyramid where FSA Ganon found it. Alright. We need to look at the Ganons that had the Trident...

OoX
LoZ
ALttP

Well, technically LoZ Ganon didn't have the trident, but that might have been for graphical purposes. He's shown with a trident in official nintendo art for the game, and in the LoZBS remake he has a trident.

All due respect to Jumbie, but I've never heard of him and have no reason to trust him any more than NoA, so I'll stick with what's in the game. I don't remember what it says exactly, but I'll do my best...

[Katsu] Jumbie's Translations - VGRC Forums
Translation of Japanese Game Texts - Legends Alliance Forums
^^check the translations out if you'd like to see Jumbie's work and judge the validity.

So he's an ancient demon reborn, and he used the Trident to become the King of Darkness. At least that's what makes the most sense to me. Either that or he's an ancient demon reborn, and the ancient demon was the King of Darkness and the weilder of the Trident. I don't think it makes sense that the ancient demon was the King of Darkness, because Zelda thought Vaati was the King of Darkness before seeing Ganon. It sounds like she's just now realizing that Ganon is the King of Darkness. So "King of Darkness" applies to FSA Ganon, rather than the ancient demon. If the ancient demon is OoX Ganon, as you believe, weilder of the Trident works, but I think it sounds like being the weilder of the Trident is what made Ganon King of Darkness. So if the ancient demon was not the King of Darkness, which I don't think he was, he didn't weild the Trident either. The ancient demon is sounding more and more like OoT/TWW Ganon than LoZ/AoL---OoX Ganon.

I agree that FSA Ganon is the King of Darkness.
What I'm saying is, OoX Ganon was a revived demon. The dead Ganon from OoT/WW [and maybe LoZ...his origins are not given in that game] was revived into OoX Ganon, who wielded the Trident.
Thus, FSA Ganon is the King of Darkness, and owns the weapon that was weilded by the ancient demon resurrected [OoX Ganon]

As for Din and Nayru in TMC, I still think they are the goddesses embodied, so they could appear wherever they want. I don't think they've simply named themselves after their goddeses. I haven't named myself Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit because he's the god (being the only god there is) that I serve. It's more likely that the Oracles are the goddesses or that the goddesses are at least involved with the Oracles, other than speaking to them, somehow.

An Oracle's job is to recieve divine messages from deities.
So...Din/Nayru came to earth as mortals [we are told that they are descendants of lines of oracles, so they were born, and likely have mortality themselves], became singers and dancers, and now receive divine messages from.....themselves?

Wha...?
The GBA manual says the entrance was found, evil emerged, and seven sages sealed it off...how does that conflict with OoT?
And the manual also never states if the Triforce left the SR during/after the Seal War.

Many sought treasure in this place, but none returned -- only beings of great evil emerged from the Golden Land.

Notice it says many, not Ganon. He was the only one that sought any treasure. Don't give me any of that "mists of time" junk either. I think that's too significant to be messed up over time.

Yes, but it says that line right after saying the entrance had been discovered. It was discovered, because of that beings of great evil emerged, then it was sealed.

The entrance was not found in OoT. Hardly anybody knew about the entrance behind the Door of Time. In the manual's account of the Seal war, the openoing is known to everybody, and more than one preson uses it.

aLttP shows us two examples of leaving the SR/DR without breaking the seal. Link uses the magic mirror to escape, even though the seal is still in tact. Also, while NoA refers to Aganhim as an alter-ego or even a pawn, the Japanese word used is "Bunshin". This translates to "soul split" and is the exact same term used to describe what happened when Ciela split her soul in order to escape a seal put on her in PH. So Aganhim is actually half of Ganon's soul that somehow escaped the Seal and then proceeded to try and break the seal to let the other half out.

The opening was found, and it had nothing to do with any seal. The seal was destrioyed in TWW, but the way out that had been sealed was also destroyed. So, when Ganon was sealed in the sword at the end of FSA, he escasped the sword into the SR, and didn't have a way out of the SR until the opening was found. He was able to let part of his soul out to get to Agahnim. Agahnim then opens the entrance from the other side by killing the descendants of the sages so that Ganon can get out.

I'm not saying that's the method Ganon used pre-WW, because we really don't know. Like I said, the Hylian text in the WW prologue basically says no one knows how he returned. If he was successful at kidnapping all the sages/descendants of sages, dragging them into the dark world, and sacrificing them to break the seal...you think they'd make that a little clearer. According to aLttP, that's the only way for the seal to be broken.

That's because it was a different seal in ALttP. You can't just keep sayiong he found a way around the seal. If you put water into a bottle and put a cap on the bottle, you have to take off the cap to get the water out.

Well, technically LoZ Ganon didn't have the trident, but that might have been for graphical purposes. He's shown with a trident in official nintendo art for the game, and in the LoZBS remake he has a trident.

LoZBS?

[Katsu] Jumbie's Translations - VGRC Forums
Translation of Japanese Game Texts - Legends Alliance Forums
^^check the translations out if you'd like to see Jumbie's work and judge the validity.

The game says what it says. Nintendo of Japan had to approve NoA's translation before letting them release the game.

I agree that FSA Ganon is the King of Darkness.
What I'm saying is, OoX Ganon was a revived demon. The dead Ganon from OoT/WW [and maybe LoZ...his origins are not given in that game] was revived into OoX Ganon, who wielded the Trident.
Thus, FSA Ganon is the King of Darkness, and owns the weapon that was weilded by the ancient demon resurrected [OoX Ganon]

According to Jumbie's translation, not the game. The game makes it sound like FSA Ganon is the ancient demon reborn and the weilder of the Trident.

An Oracle's job is to recieve divine messages from deities.
So...Din/Nayru came to earth as mortals [we are told that they are descendants of lines of oracles, so they were born, and likely have mortality themselves], became singers and dancers, and now receive divine messages from.....themselves?

They came from a line of oracles, and they were also the goddesses embodied. A goddess can come to Hyrule as whoever it wants.

Originally Posted by Majoraman

Notice it says many, not Ganon. He was the only one that sought any treasure. Don't give me any of that "mists of time" junk either. I think that's too significant to be messed up over time.

Ganon was not the only one who sought the Triforce.
TP references ancient wars over the Triforce. These wars likely predate OoT, and I personally believe ended with the Unifying War spoken of in OoT.

The evil beings are probably Ganon's minions on the adult side.

The entrance was not found in OoT. Hardly anybody knew about the entrance behind the Door of Time. In the manual's account of the Seal war, the openoing is known to everybody, and more than one preson uses it.

It was discovered by Link/Ganondorf.
The manual doesn't say the opening was known to everyone.

The opening was found, and it had nothing to do with any seal. The seal was destrioyed in TWW, but the way out that had been sealed was also destroyed. So, when Ganon was sealed in the sword at the end of FSA, he escasped the sword into the SR, and didn't have a way out of the SR until the opening was found. He was able to let part of his soul out to get to Agahnim. Agahnim then opens the entrance from the other side by killing the descendants of the sages so that Ganon can get out.

Uh, Aganhim isn't just trying to find an opening for Ganon. He specifically says he has to break the seal of the seven sages.
If that seal was already totally destroyed in WW, as you suggest, why does it still exist in aLttP?
FSA does not feature any sages. They've been completely replaced by Shrine Maidens. So, Hyrule would have to go from having Sages as it's spiritual leaders, to shrine maidens, to sages again [who cast a new seal], and then back to maidens again?

That's because it was a different seal in ALttP. You can't just keep sayiong he found a way around the seal. If you put water into a bottle and put a cap on the bottle, you have to take off the cap to get the water out.

Well, Wind Waker makes no mention of him breaking the seal, or killing the descendant of the Sages. That's the only way to break the seal.
OoT is the only incident of Seven Sages casting a seal.

LoZBS?

Battleview Satellite. It's a remake. Battleview Satellite also has a game called Ancient Stone Tablets which is an aLttP sequel. Most don't consider them canon..I'm undecided.

The game says what it says. Nintendo of Japan had to approve NoA's translation before letting them release the game.

No they don't. At least piror to 2000, not sure about after that. I read an article [not sure where I saw it] which basically said NoJ didn't supervise NoA translation/censorship at all.

They came from a line of oracles, and they were also the goddesses embodied. A goddess can come to Hyrule as whoever it wants.

So the goddesses have been living as humans for years and just jump from one body to the next, and receive divine messages from themselves? Not buying it.
An Oracle is not a goddess incarnate. It's basically the equivalent to a prophet.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

An Oracle's job is to recieve divine messages from deities.
So...Din/Nayru came to earth as mortals [we are told that they are descendants of lines of oracles, so they were born, and likely have mortality themselves], became singers and dancers, and now receive divine messages from.....themselves?

I don't have time to read the whole thread, but I'll just throw this in here:
If I remember clearly "Oracle" isn't really that fitting for the japanese term, I'll have to check it again.

Majora, did you entirely pass over this post?

Originally Posted by dallascowboy927

O dude u totally misread what i said, i was merely asking if it was worth pointing out the connections to you or if someone like Erim already explained them to you and you consider them cameos, i was just trying to help ur placement of other games lol not talk about u or anything.

Anyway with OoX, Twinrova DID promise to come back and haunt you lol, for what thats worth, i use it to bypass the need to keep OoX in CT. Anyway here are 4 Things i use to include OoX (and possibly LoZ/AoL) before TMC. And Erimgard better back me up on this crap lol.

We translated the books on another forum in the Minish Cap's library from Hylian to Japanese: the titles of 2 of the books were as follows:

Triumph Forks
and Fruit of the Mysterious Tree (the Japanese name for the OoX games)

Also, in TMC the 3 Oracles are there looking for houses in Hyrule. Nayru's figurine states that she is from a line of Oracles from Labrynna.

Also, here's where it gets weird, i use Freshly Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland (The Freshly Picked Oracles Timeline is something u missed while u were gone lol). In the game there is an obvious Subrosian who refers to helping a Hero long ago. The Subrosian now works in a Salon and is called a Salona though, but if you play the game you cant mistake the fact that he is a Subrosian. Also, the world of FPTRRL is composed of several small continents with names such as Lon Lon Meadows and a Mountain that is said to have previously been called the Mountain of Death. Erim and I just believe that FPTRRL is in the process of bringing the Islands together like the Deku Tree says. The State of the Triforce is strange and Erim im sure would be more than happy to pitch ideas about it to you, but those are just the connections between OoX and TMC for you.

Also the fact that the Zora Elder found the sword that becomes the Master Sword in the game 400 years before hand might help this theory too, since it would be at the bottom of the sea for at the end of WW.

If you get time, search back in the boards our debates about FPTRRL and specifically the Freshly Picked Oracles Timeline, Erim and I follow the timeline:
...../WW-PH-LoZ-AoL-OoX-(FPTRRL)-TMC-FS-FSA-ALttP-LA
OoT
.....\MM-TP

I'm not so sure about the Triforce, all i can say is that the Triforce flies away at the end of WW. I have a belief that WW Link and Tetra find the Triforce and use it to govern the new land they find and that the King from the AoL backstory is that Link. Also it would make sense regarding the "Legend of Zelda" since Tetra hates being called Zelda, its likely that she was Queen Tetra, but named her daughter Zelda and this Zelda is the one cursed by the Wizard, therefore in a sense, she was the first Zelda, but there is no in game evidence to back this up specifically, just an educated theory.

Regarding Ganon, I believe either that Ganondorf's body is dead but the spirit of Ganon (who never revealed itself in WW) lives on to LoZ, or that Ganondorf is reborn/revived and becomes Ganon when he steals the ToP before LoZ. Usually hard to explain Ganon rebirths anyway.

And where is it that i forced you to put OoX where I put it, i merely said there was evidence for it and stated my case.

Also they are right, Oracles are mortals, Jesus is God incarnate, not...oraclized. Jesus isnt the Oracle of God lol. Oracles are more like prophets or messangers, i know this from Greek Mythology.

And to clear up what Jumbie does, he takes the japanese and translates it more literally and more directly than NoA, who tend to romanize things and add their own flavor to what is going on, this does fine for spicing up the individual game's story, but often adds confusion when trying to analyze all of the games together like we do in TL theories.

As for explaining the Triforce state and the Master Sword state, we dont know, there is no game that provides evidence enough to make a good guess, but OoX does have the Master Sword in the hands of a Zora, the AoL backstory after PH might help with the triforce state a little bit, and Twinrova did promise to come back and haunt you, take that for what u want.

Also we can see that Nintendo isnt concerned with explaining the state of every little detail from game to game, some things are left as unknowns (even in game evidence backing the unknowingness of these things up) such as Hylian translation in WW's intro. Nintendo just wants to make a good game with a great story for that game and vague ties to other games, that still make sense of course.

Erimgard's not understanding me at all.
Dallascowboy is popping up at random monents and getting mad at me for not reeading and understanding every word in the thread.
Noibody else is doing much at all.
I'm done with this. Iknbow where I stand, and I'm not moving. Obviously, no one else is either, so I'm done.

Originally Posted by majoraman

Erimgard's not understanding me at all.

uuhh right. I understand you completely. I just think you're twisting things.