Zora to Rito...? What?!

Originally Posted by alexross8

evolution does not require death to make a new species.

however the zora died because they only thrive in fresh water. and when salt water was introduced they died out or evolved into rito.

but i believe there is a creationist story to it too.

also when the great sea was made sediments of sand and salt would have rised up from the ground and made the sea salty.

no you're wrong i don't have the resources to prove you wrong right now, but still you're wrong... i just know it
THE ZORAS LIVE ON

Your post was pointless without Proof.

what am i wrong about?

it's a game with magic, anything can happen or be created. try and prove me wrong there

Originally Posted by zenox24

it's a game with magic, anything can happen or be created. try and prove me wrong there

Dude, this is what we call the "burden of proof" fallacy. To say something exists and then ask someone else to prove you wrong, rather than proving yourself right, is a complete logical fallacy. Not to mention it just makes you sound like an idiot. It is your job to prove your point, not someone else's to disprove it.

Originally Posted by alexross8

evolution does not require death to make a new species.

however the zora died because they only thrive in fresh water. and when salt water was introduced they died out or evolved into rito.

but i believe there is a creationist story to it too.

also when the great sea was made sediments of sand and salt would have rised up from the ground and made the sea salty.

Termina's Zoras survive pretty well in salty water though...

However in the Oracle-games there are "River Zora" and "Ocean Zora". So it's possible that their race somehow developed into these two, from which one couldn't survive in saltwater anymore and thus this group had to leave the water, when the flood occurred.

i agree with Aralith he's got a good point. the water could be mostly freshwater because rain when it goes up into the clouds cannot bring salt with it, and if so verry little. so the sea might not acctually be a sea, they might have named it that because it was so vast and bigger than any lake they ever saw, but rather it is just one huge lake with verry little salt water only enough to sustain sea-living beings.

It might have been a fresh water ocean when it first was created, but because the earth have much minerals in it, it becomes salt after some time as the minerales dissolve in the water.

Dude, this is what we call the "burden of proof" fallacy. To say something exists and then ask someone else to prove you wrong, rather than proving yourself right, is a complete logical fallacy. Not to mention it just makes you sound like an idiot. It is your job to prove your point, not someone else's to disprove it.

No, he got a point. Science is all about finding a hypotesis, making some experiments to support the hypotesis, and if none of the experiments are disproving the hypotesis, it's now a theory. A theory cannot be proved, only disproved. That is a fact in science. You cannot prove anything, only disprove it. But he only got a hypotesis, as he have no experiments to support his statement, and is therefore wrong nevertheless.

Termina's Zoras survive pretty well in salty water though...

However in the Oracle-games there are "River Zora" and "Ocean Zora". So it's possible that their race somehow developed into these two, from which one couldn't survive in saltwater anymore and thus this group had to leave the water, when the flood occurred.

Read my previous posts. I have stated why some Zoras cannot live in the ocean and the other way. It's the concentration of salt. Just check it with the fish here on earth. If you place a mackerel in a fresh water pond, it will die.

Originally Posted by Fluesopp

It might have been a fresh water ocean when it first was created, but because the earth have much minerals in it, it becomes salt after some time as the minerales dissolve in the water.

Point still stands that in OoX the Zora lived in the ocean. And they may have had salt water abilities all along. Not to mention it would be far more likely that the Zora would evolve salt water abilities than avian abilities.

No, he got a point. Science is all about finding a hypotesis, making some experiments to support the hypotesis, and if none of the experiments are disproving the hypotesis, it's now a theory. A theory cannot be proved, only disproved. That is a fact in science. You cannot prove anything, only disprove it. But he only got a hypotesis, as he have no experiments to support his statement, and is therefore wrong nevertheless.

Pardon? Theories can't be proven? Right, the only reason evolution is around is because we can't disprove it. It has nothing to do with all of that evidence we've collected that solidifies our belief in it. Nothing at all.[/sarcasm]

I'm sorry, but not only do you need lack of disproof, you also need existence of proof. By your definition, Sagan's Dragon is a scientific theory. Now, a hypothesis is a statement made based on observation, sort of like an educated guess, but to have any validity to it at all, evidence must be run to prove it, and tests must be run to show that it can't be disproven. You need both proof, and lack of disproof for a hypothesis to be valid. This is where burden of proof comes in. It is the job of the claimant to back his assertion, not for others to disprove it. That's just ridiculous. He is committing a burden of proof fallacy. There is no way around it.

Read my previous posts. I have stated why some Zoras cannot live in the ocean and the other way. It's the concentration of salt. Just check it with the fish here on earth. If you place a mackerel in a fresh water pond, it will die.

Ah, but salmon can survive in both fresh water and salt water. And during the 1916 New Jersey shark attacks a great white shark managed to swim several miles inland, via a fresh water stream. There are other reported cases of sharks in fresh water, but this example is what comes most readily to mind. There is just no way to prove that the Zora in OoT were only capable of living in fresh water. So, there is a lack of disproof, and I have some proof that they can live in salt water.

Zora artifacts appear in the sea in PH, the Zora in OoA say that they are Ocean Zora and that their cousins (the hostile ones) are River Zora, and finally the Zora in MM live in the sea. Now, while none of these are direct proofs that the OoT Zora could live in salt water, they do tend to lend themselves to a theory that they do. However, you are right that there is no concrete evidence saying that OoT Zora are salt water dwellers as well, but even if they weren't, the Zora would far more likely evolve that ability than avian abilities, as I have stated many times before in this thread and to be quite honest, haven't gotten an answer to yet.

Originally Posted by Aralith

Point still stands that in OoX the Zora lived in the ocean. And they may have had salt water abilities all along. Not to mention it would be far more likely that the Zora would evolve salt water abilities than
avian abilities.

...other stuff...

the Zora would far more likely evolve that ability than avian abilities, as I have stated many times before in this thread and to be quite honest, haven't gotten an answer to yet.

I remember mentioning that evolution is based on (natural) mutation, which is random.
If there were some Zoras that developed the ability to stay at land for a longer time, then that branch of the Zora would survive due to the obvious benefits that come from land dwelling in the time of WW.
At the same time some other Zoras could have developed the ability to "breath" saltwater (if they weren't able of that to start with).
The point, that it would be more likley for them to develop into different water dwellers then avians is a bit flawed, because evolution is a process of trial an error so to speak. Species mutate randomly, if the mutation is beneficial the mutants will survive and carry on his mutated genes to it's offsprings. If the mutation is malevolent/inefficent the mutant will die most likley without reproducing.
Sorry if I'm horrible wrong about evolution, but this is what I remember. (not an expert on evolution )

Originally Posted by bitterlime

I remember mentioning that evolution is based on (natural) mutation, which is random.
If there were some Zoras that developed the ability to stay at land for a longer time, then that branch of the Zora would survive due to the obvious benefits that come from land dwelling in the time of WW.
At the same time some other Zoras could have developed the ability to "breath" saltwater (if they weren't able of that to start with).
The point, that it would be more likley for them to develop into different water dwellers then avians is a bit flawed, because evolution is a process of trial an error so to speak. Species mutate randomly, if the mutation is beneficial the mutants will survive and carry on his mutated genes to it's offsprings. If the mutation is malevolent/inefficent the mutant will die most likley without reproducing.
Sorry if I'm horrible wrong about evolution, but this is what I remember. (not an expert on evolution )

Well, you are somewhat right, but there is also forms of evolution that are not random. I don't want to take the time (or go off topic) to explain it, so I give you this. That should tell you all you need to know about evolution and probability. If you don't want to read it, short version is that evolution isn't so much like a completely random lottery, but more like a rigged lottery. So, sometimes evolution is not random and can be spurred on by things such as predation, or more important for this argument, climate change. A drastic change in climate could have caused a new trait to evolve to adapt to the new climate. This being the case, it would be far more likely that they would evolve salt water dwelling abilities rather than avian ones.

Originally Posted by Fluesopp

Read my previous posts. I have stated why some Zoras cannot live in the ocean and the other way. It's the concentration of salt. Just check it with the fish here on earth. If you place a mackerel in a fresh water pond, it will die.

yah well thats a mackerel not a zora huminoid. the zoras if they can go from salt water to fresh water in MM, then going with what your saying on the mackerel then why didn't you die or shrivle up when you touched fresh water?

and i sort of agree with aralith, on that shark "happening" stuff, when the saltwater shark came out of the sea by a freshwater cannal and had it's moments of terror.
oh and what about those freshwater dophins? i suppose those creatures have some sort of relevance to this situation. there are saltwater dolphins and freshwater... what do you make of that? the zoras could be a tribal group of persons like the elves (dark elves, night elves, and wood elves and so on...), but with water

I think aralith is out to get me...bring it on (zelda warz lol)

Originally Posted by zenox24

yah well thats a mackerel not a zora huminoid. the zoras if they can go from salt water to fresh water in MM, then going with what your saying on the mackerel then why didn't you die or shrivle up when you touched fresh water?

and i sort of agree with aralith, on that shark "happening" stuff, when the saltwater shark came out of the sea by a freshwater cannal and had it's moments of terror.
oh and what about those freshwater dophins? i suppose those creatures have some sort of relevance to this situation. there are saltwater dolphins and freshwater... what do you make of that? the zoras could be a tribal group of persons like the elves (dark elves, night elves, and wood elves and so on...), but with water

I think aralith is out to get me...bring it on (zelda warz lol)

death isn't instant, a salt water fish will not die immediately after it is placed in fresh water, it'll take a while. And why would it shrivel up?

Originally Posted by zenox24

yah well thats a mackerel not a zora huminoid. the zoras if they can go from salt water to fresh water in MM, then going with what your saying on the mackerel then why didn't you die or shrivle up when you touched fresh water?

and i sort of agree with aralith, on that shark "happening" stuff, when the saltwater shark came out of the sea by a freshwater cannal and had it's moments of terror.
oh and what about those freshwater dophins? i suppose those creatures have some sort of relevance to this situation. there are saltwater dolphins and freshwater... what do you make of that? the zoras could be a tribal group of persons like the elves (dark elves, night elves, and wood elves and so on...), but with water

I think aralith is out to get me...bring it on (zelda warz lol)

Nobody sees Terminian zoras in fresh water.

Originally Posted by zenox24

and i sort of agree with aralith, on that shark "happening" stuff, when the saltwater shark came out of the sea by a freshwater cannal and had it's moments of terror.

How do you sort of agree? Those things did happen, thus it proves that predominantly salt water creatures can survive in fresh water and vice versa. Also, the salmon actually live in both fresh and salt water. It has the capability to truly thrive in both.

I think aralith is out to get me...bring it on (zelda warz lol)

Oh it's certainly not you. Just anyone who uses logical fallacies and doesn't properly evidence their arguments. Just so happens that that's what you're doing right now, so of course I'm going to call you on it. Hell, I call people on logical fallacies even when they're agreeing with me. I have no prejudice on this subject. No one is safe from my logic finding way. Mwahahahahaha!