Important note for theorists

[Mr. Lexxi Aileron]

Thanks as always to Jumbie at LegendsAlliance Forums for translating these lines.

Lanayru's speech was presented by NoA as telling the story of a tribe who tried to rule the Sacred Realm, their name for the other world connected to Hyrule. In the literal Japanese, however, it seems to be referring not to the Sacred Realm, but to Hyrule.

Originally Posted by Jumbie @ LegendsAlliance

しかし、やがて聖地ハイラルを巡り争いが起こった
But at length, a rivalry ensued over Hyrule, the holy land.
But soon, word of the Sacred Realm spread through Hyrule, and a great battle ensued…
Literal translation
NoA translation

- In a most tricky sentence, there is no "word of" the Sacred Realm spreading at all. Although 聖地 is also the Japanese name of the SR, it literally means "sacred/holy land", which here (and throughout TP) is given as a description of Hyrule instead. The great battle is specifically a rivalry, so accordingly, what NoA translated as "through Hyrule" should better be "over Hyrule". So it was a rivalry over the holy land that is Hyrule.
Regardless though, I still maintain that this rivalry is the same war spoken of in OoT and ALttP. The fact remains unchanged that the Triforce is shown in the cutscene as the thing the magic users were after. Just that they coveted it to rule Hyrule.
Also, Lanayru explains that Hyrule is called the holy land because it was there that the Goddesses touched ground. And what did OoT say? The place where the Goddesses left the Triforce came to be known as the holy land. (That's my re-translation right here.)

As Jumbie notes, however, Hyrule has been associated with the land where the Triforce dwells since the creation was first told, and the shadow tribe is after the Triforce anyway, so this doesn't drastically change things.

Link: Translation of Japanese Game Texts

[TheManInTheMoon]

and for a listing of the translations in that thread, look here

[Hombre de Mundo]

It might just be me, but I don't see this being important at all. Does it change the fact that the Twili tried to get their hands on the Triforce and the Sacred Realm and got banished?
What's Jumbies translation on the line

tried to establish dominion over the sacred realm

I don't see this changing anything. Could just be me plain not getting it though...

[TheManInTheMoon]

but that's not the only reference to the "sacred realm"

[Mr. Lexxi Aileron]

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

Does it change the fact that the Twili tried to get their hands on the Triforce and the Sacred Realm and got banished?

Depends if the Triforce was in the otherworld realm, or still in Hyrule itself at this time. Either could be the case, frankly.

What's Jumbies translation on the line...

The word used for "Sacred Realm" and "holy land" is the same. The context is clearly that Hyrule is the realm being referred to in this text, though, while the Sacred Realm is literally another world.

[Orici]

I'm with Hombre.
I dont see an importance to this translation.

The Sacred Realm and Hyrule are talked about in other games as being the same land sometimes. So this quote means nothing new IMO

[Mr. Lexxi Aileron]

To Mercury: Other instances that use the same term are limited to other stories about the shadow clan, a description of the Goron Mines, and Ganondorf's story, the interpretation of which is really irrelevant since we already knew that he wanted to find the Sacred Realm.

[TheManInTheMoon]

Just throwing out possibilities

[Mr. Lexxi Aileron]

To Orici: It matters because the Twili aren't necessarily linked to the Sacred Realm anymore. Considering the number of Twilight Realm = Sacred Realm theories.... >_<

[smallville boy]

The triforce from the very beginng, since hyrule creation was into the sacred realm,
In these both games: ALTTP & OOT

In ALTTP are a leyends told by hyrule people that said that the triforce are inside in some building, some people think that this buildings are in the graveyard, in the death mountain, or the dessert etc... but the only true thing is that in hyrule are some buildings that was be used like a gates to entered into the SR, like the temple of time in OOT. the Triforce isnt inside this building this building conducto you directly to the SR,to the Temple of light where the triforce is.

The triforce never are resguarden in hyrule before OOT or ALTTP, in hyrule only are gates,portalS thAt conduct u to the sacred realm, the SR are another world/dimension.

[Orici]

Originally Posted by Mr. Lexxi Aileron

To Orici: It matters because the Twili aren't necessarily linked to the Sacred Realm anymore. Considering the number of Twilight Realm = Sacred Realm theories.... >_<

What are you saying?
This translation means they are the same, or that they arent?

[Mr. Lexxi Aileron]

The translation means that the Twili didn't want to rule the Sacred Realm, they wanted to rule Hyrule.

[Orici]

Originally Posted by Mr. Lexxi Aileron

The translation means that the Twili didn't want to rule the Sacred Realm, they wanted to rule Hyrule.

Uh huh.
But that wasn't my question

[smallville boy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Lexxi Aileron

The translation means that the Twili didn't want to rule the Sacred Realm, they wanted to rule Hyrule.

They wanted take the triforce that is inside the sacred realm(temple of light) and then, take control of hyrule with the power of the triforce, in the very same way that ganin in OOT try to do it.

[Hombre de Mundo]

^ The problem is, you're saying since Hyrule was reffered to as the Holy Land, it can't be the Sacred Realm. I can see that in the example in the OP. However, any future refferences to the Holy Land might just as well be the Sacred Realm.

[Hombre de Mundo]

ZU won't let me edit. So screw it, I'm double posting (unless someone make it before me again).

That post was to Lex, not smallville boy.

And I also want to know whether Holy Land is usually reffered written in hiragana or katakana. It might just be that the japanese have some common sense and write Holy Lan (sacred realm) in katakana and holy land (as in "a holy land") in hiragana.

[Ganon the King]

It sounds to me that in the Japanese text, the shadow users were trying to establish dominion over Hyrule and the Sacred Realm had nothing to do with it. This makes sense. Then the light spirits were sent to Hyrule (from wherever they came from) and the shadow users were sent to a different world that came to be known as the "Twilight Realm."

But in the English translation they were trying to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm... they would not be able to get to the Sacred Realm unless someone pulled the Master Sword from the temple of time. From the way I see it, the only way anyone could get to the Sacred Realm was by someone pulling the master sword and their hearts had to be pure. So that means the shadow users (interlopers in English translation) tried to: 1. Established dominion over the SR and then touched the triforce.
2. Tried to establish dominion over the SR could not never even get close to doing that because they never got into the SR, but this doesn't mean they didn't "try."

The Japanese text seems to be correct because everything fits together.

After the Shadow users are banished, sometime later, the events of Ocarina of Time take place -> Link opens up the SR for Ganondorf and he makes his wish. Link defeats him to save Hyrule (adult timeline) and then Link is sent back to his previous time by the Ocarina of Time's power. However, no matter where Link goes, he will still have the ToC, Zelda will have the ToW and Ganondorf will have the ToP. A couple of years later, Ganondorf does something terrible in an attempt to gain power and is meant to be executed and because of his "granted" power the sages send him to the "other" world.

Now what doesn't make sense about the English version is that if the interlopers did manage to get to the Sacred Realm, they would have also obtained the Triforce and been granted a wish. Then the events in Ocarina of Time would have never taken place. Therefore, TP and OoT would be unable to "connect" with each other and they would be entirely different games.

Also what doesn't make sense about the English version is how the interlopers tried to gain dominion over the Sacred Realm and then they were chased across Hyrule? Now why wasn't it mentioned that they were chased out of the SR and then across Hyrule? This always confused me.

Another point I'd like to bring up is that in OoT, the place where the goddesses left the Triforce came to be known as the Sacred Realm. What strikes me as strange is that although the Sacred Realm is supposed to exist in Hyrule, it seems like everyone has gain accustomed to believing it is "another world." What if the Sacred Realm is a spiritual place... a place where only your mind exists? Also what annoys me is that when Link pulled the MS he stayed in the Temple of light for seven years, but then how did Ganondorf get in? Was there a shiny portal waiting there for him to stand on and take him to the SR or something?

[Orici]

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

But in the English translation they were trying to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm... they would not be able to get to the Sacred Realm unless someone pulled the Master Sword from the temple of time. From the way I see it, the only way anyone could get to the Sacred Realm was by someone pulling the master sword and their hearts had to be pure.

It's very possible that the Temple of Time wasn't built then. In fact, I believe the Sages built the Temple of Time partly because of what the Interlopers tried to do.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Now what doesn't make sense about the English version is that if the interlopers did manage to get to the Sacred Realm, they would have also obtained the Triforce and been granted a wish. Then the events in Ocarina of Time would have never taken place. Therefore, TP and OoT would be unable to "connect" with each other and they would be entirely different games.

Nothing ever says they actually succeeded in taking the SR for a time. In fact the English version specifically says they "tried" to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. So from what it sounds like, they never did enter it.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Also what doesn't make sense about the English version is how the interlopers tried to gain dominion over the Sacred Realm and then they were chased across Hyrule? Now why wasn't it mentioned that they were chased out of the SR and then across Hyrule? This always confused me.

Again, the English version says:

Originally Posted by Lanayru

...they tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm....

Therefore, they never succeeded. They never needed to be chased out of the SR because they were never in it.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Another point I'd like to bring up is that in OoT, the place where the goddesses left the Triforce came to be known as the Sacred Realm. What strikes me as strange is that although the Sacred Realm is supposed to exist in Hyrule, it seems like everyone has gain accustomed to believing it is "another world."

Originally Posted by Zelda(OoT)

The three goddesses hid the Triforce containing the power of the gods somewhere in Hyrule.

Originally Posted by I Dont Know

This evil man ceaselessly uses his vile, sorcerous powers in his search for the Sacred Realm that is connected to Hyrule...

Seems to me people in OoT do consider the SR as part of Hyrule.(I know there are more quotes, I'm just too lazy to find them)

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

What if the Sacred Realm is a spiritual place... a place where only your mind exists?

Sounds more like speculation, since nothing ever suggests that.

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Also what annoys me is that when Link pulled the MS he stayed in the Temple of light for seven years, but then how did Ganondorf get in? Was there a shiny portal waiting there for him to stand on and take him to the SR or something?

Probably.
By pulling the MS, he opened the way to the SR. But since Link's spirit was sealed before he could return the MS to it's pedistal, the "portal" remained open.

[Ganon the King]

Originally Posted by Orici

It's very possible that the Temple of Time wasn't built then. In fact, I believe the Sages built the Temple of Time partly because of what the Interlopers tried to do.



Nothing ever says they actually succeeded in taking the SR for a time. In fact the English version specifically says they "tried" to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. So from what it sounds like, they never did enter it.


Again, the English version says:

Therefore, they never succeeded. They never needed to be chased out of the SR because they were never in it.





Seems to me people in OoT do consider the SR as part of Hyrule.(I know there are more quotes, I'm just too lazy to find them)


Sounds more like speculation, since nothing ever suggests that.


Probably.
By pulling the MS, he opened the way to the SR. But since Link's spirit was sealed before he could return the MS to it's pedistal, the "portal" remained open.

Yes... I agree with most points. Except that what Lanayru might mean by, "they tried to establish dominion" is that they got into it but never ruled it... So then what is your take on this? Were the interlopers trying to establish dominion over the SR or the holy land (Hyrule)??

[Orici]

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Yes... I agree with most points. Except that what Lanayru might mean by, "they tried to establish dominion" is that they got into it but never ruled it... So then what is your take on this? Were the interlopers trying to establish dominion over the SR or the holy land (Hyrule)??

I think ultimately they wanted Hyrule, but in order to rule Hyrule they needed the Triforce. So in a way, they wanted both lands. They needed to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm in order to gain the Triforce, so they could gain control over Hyrule.

[Ganon the King]

Originally Posted by Orici

I think ultimately they wanted Hyrule, but in order to rule Hyrule they needed the Triforce. So in a way, they wanted both lands. They needed to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm in order to gain the Triforce, so they could gain control over Hyrule.

Yes.