An Unconventional Timeline

[Aralith]

Before I begin, I think it is imperative to note that I do not believe in or endorse this timeline. I was just kind of screwing around and seeing if I could put the Zelda games in an unconventional order that still made sense, and I think I did a pretty good job of that. But yeah, this is pretty much just for fun. So, here is my Unconventional Timeline Theory:

------------------------[WW - PH] - [LoZ - AoL] - [ALttP - LA]
-----------------------/
[MC - FS - FSA] - [OoT
-----------------------\
------------------------MM] - [TP] - [OoX]

Okay, the most obvious part from convention is putting FS and FSA before OoT, but here is my reasoning behind it. Obviously Minish Cap happens. If there is any game that can be proven to be before OoT, it's MC, so that's not so strange. Here's where things get tricky. FSA is the only thing I really wanted before OoT, but if FSA is there, then so must FS and MC be. The reason FSA is there is because of how the Gerudo are treated. They are viewed as a good people, because people ponder how the King of Evil could have possible come from them. Ganondorf takes the Triforce and becomes Ganon, and then gets sealed in the Four Sword. Sometime between FSA and ALttP, the Four Sword gets moved to the Sacred Realm. Now, because of Ganondorf's actions in FSA, the Gerudo are now looked down upon, which explains the Hylians hatred for them in OoT.

In OoT, a new Ganondorf is born and then the events of OoT take place, including the seal on the Sacred Realm.

On the adult side, I could find no way to move WW and PH, so they had to stay there. This is the same Ganondorf from OoT. He gets killed in the end but the spirit of Ganon lives on. Sometime between WW and LoZ he is either given a new body and takes the ToP, or a new body is given to him when he takes it. Ganon is killed by Link in LoZ. Then AoL happens. With the Triforce now complete it is sent back to the Sacred Realm, where Ganon from FSA has escaped the Four Sword and claims the Triforce. He can't get out of the Sacred Realm because the seal from OoT is still on it. Then ALttP happens, Link leaves and LA happens.

On the child side, this is pretty conventional. There wasn't much I could move around. The only thing that jumps out at me is that OoX is a different Link than ALttP Link, which some people already believe anyways.

So, what does ZU Theory think of this?

[TheManInTheMoon]

Now, because of Ganondorf's actions in FSA, the Gerudo are now looked down upon, which explains the Hylians hatred for them in OoT.

Its far more likely that they are looked down upon in OoT (feared would be a better word) is because they are thieves.

Also, if the people of hyrule remember Ganon coming from the Gerudo, why would the king trust him in OoT?

[Mr. Lexxi Aileron]

The only thing that jumps out at me is that OoX is a different Link than ALttP Link, which some people already believe anyways.

Most of the people who believe this don't understand the immense influence of the other 2D games (besides perhaps Link's Awakening) on those games.

[Daemonius]

Most of this seems possible, but OoX should really come some time after AoL: those are the only games in which the Triforce is in the possesion of the royal family.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Aralith

Here's where things get tricky. FSA is the only thing I really wanted before OoT, but if FSA is there, then so must FS and MC be. The reason FSA is there is because of how the Gerudo are treated. They are viewed as a good people, because people ponder how the King of Evil could have possible come from them. Ganondorf takes the Triforce and becomes Ganon, and then gets sealed in the Four Sword.

The Triforce or Trident?
He's never shown to have gotten the Triforce in FSA, and in OoT the Triforce is complete and in the Sacred Realm.

In OoT, a new Ganondorf is born and then the events of OoT take place, including the seal on the Sacred Realm.

How can a new Ganondorf be born when the old one is still alive? That kinda goes against the whole concept of 'rebirth' or 'reincarnation'

What do you make of the quote about the trident being the "evil weapon of the demon resurrected" ?
Where you put FSA, there are no games before it with a Demon or a Trident, so it can't really refer to either one.

EDIT: Also, I made a 'fake' timeline myself once...and it was quite fun
Workable Timeline? [playing devil's advocate here]

[Casual Matt]

One problem with putting Four Swords Adventures before Ocarina of Time. The Dark World exists in it.

The Sacred Realm wasn't turned into the Dark World until Ganon touched the Triforce in Ocarina of Time. And it was changed back when Link wished for it in A Link to the Past. So Four Swords Adventures must come between Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past.

Also, A Link to the Past is generally accepted as a prequel to The Legend of Zelda, as it was always marketed as one. I also put the Oracle game sometime between ALttP and LoZ, which makes sense when you consider the Trident. If it does go...

[OoT] - [FSA] - [ALttP] - [OoS][OoA] - [LoZ]

...then Ganon starts off in Ocarina of Time without the Trident, gets it in Four Swords Adventures, and still has it in A Link to the Past and the Oracles, somehow loosing it before the original Legend of Zelda.

[Erimgard]

Matt, he says that OoT Ganondorf and FSA Ganondorf are different people.
Also, the Dark World of FSA functions different from the Dark World of aLttP, and many don't think it is the same.
Since it's never called the Sacred Realm/Golden Land corrupted as it is in aLttP, there's no absolute proof they are the same thing. The term in Japanese just means that it's Ganon's domain essentially.

[Aralith]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

The Triforce or Trident?
He's never shown to have gotten the Triforce in FSA, and in OoT the Triforce is complete and in the Sacred Realm.

Yeah, Trident, that's what I meant. Sorry.

How can a new Ganondorf be born when the old one is still alive? That kinda goes against the whole concept of 'rebirth' or 'reincarnation'

I don't understand. Why wouldn't he be? A man is born to the Gerudo every 100 years regardless of whether the last one is dead or not. There is certainly nothing to suggest otherwise. Thus, the Ganondorf/Ganon of FSA is imprisoned in the Four Sword and that is sealed in the sacred realm (sometime between FSA and ALttP), then a new man is born to the Gerudo and they name him Ganondorf as well.

What do you make of the quote about the trident being the "evil weapon of the demon resurrected" ?
Where you put FSA, there are no games before it with a Demon or a Trident, so it can't really refer to either one.

It doesn't have to. There are plenty of things that weren't explained at all or even hinted at until another game was made. The war with the Dark Interlopers of TP being perhaps the best example. I completely believe it is possible that some other war with a demon OTHER THAN Ganon(dorf) wielded the Triforce and was reborn at some point or another. After all, MC specifically does mention people such as Gustaf who was an ancient king. So there are obviously unexplained histories of Hyrule.

Originally Posted by MercuryMule

Also, if the people of hyrule remember Ganon coming from the Gerudo, why would the king trust him in OoT?

Why would the king trust him if he was the leader of a group of thieves in the first place? No matter what reason the Hylians hated the Gerudo, Ganondorf was clearly trying to amend the Gerudos relationship with the Hylians. So it is no damaging point to my theory.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Aralith

I don't understand. Why wouldn't he be? A man is born to the Gerudo every 100 years regardless of whether the last one is dead or not. There is certainly nothing to suggest otherwise. Thus, the Ganondorf/Ganon of FSA is imprisoned in the Four Sword and that is sealed in the sacred realm (sometime between FSA and ALttP), then a new man is born to the Gerudo and they name him Ganondorf as well.

So in FSA, they are respected, and they hate Ganondorf....yet in OoT somehow they are hated, and they name their new leader Ganondorf too? Despite hating the previous one?

It doesn't have to. There are plenty of things that weren't explained at all or even hinted at until another game was made. The war with the Dark Interlopers of TP being perhaps the best example. I completely believe it is possible that some other war with a demon OTHER THAN Ganon(dorf) wielded the Triforce and was reborn at some point or another. After all, MC specifically does mention people such as Gustaf who was an ancient king. So there are obviously unexplained histories of Hyrule.

I don't think they would make specific reference to a non-mentioned Demon, but eh, I guess we don't fully know what shiggy and eiji will or won't do.

Why would the king trust him if he was the leader of a group of thieves in the first place? No matter what reason the Hylians hated the Gerudo, Ganondorf was clearly trying to amend the Gerudos relationship with the Hylians. So it is no damaging point to my theory.

The King had just 'united' the land. The Gerudo's were the only major tribe left that didn't have an alliance with him, and by most timelines, up to this point Ganondorf had never done anything awful to the Hylians [as he did in FSA]
The King had no major reason to distrust him, and it was in his best interests to form an alliance.

[Casual Matt]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Also, the Dark World of FSA functions different from the Dark World of aLttP, and many don't think it is the same.

Eh, I like to look at thinks as simply as possible and just say The Dark World is The Dark World.

Besides, in both games, The Dark World is like a warped version of Hyrule, so the basic concept is the same, anyway.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Casual Matt

Eh, I like to look at thinks as simply as possible and just say The Dark World is The Dark World.

Besides, in both games, The Dark World is like a warped version of Hyrule, so the basic concept is the same, anyway.

Well, the point is, since it's never called the Sacred Realm, it can't really be used against him. It may very well be the SR, but the SR isn't the only place that is a mirrored/warped Hyrule.

[Aralith]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

So in FSA, they are respected, and they hate Ganondorf....yet in OoT somehow they are hated, and they name their new leader Ganondorf too? Despite hating the previous one?

Most Germans hate what Adolf Hitler did in WWII, yet they still name some of their children Adolf. Perhaps with the Gerudo, it is tradtion to name their men Ganondorf or something. Or it is just a good name to them. After all, why would they have named him Ganondorf in FSA if the previous Ganondorf had done such terrible things in OoT and WW (the only two games with Ganondorf that we know for sure came before FSA, if on the adult timeline).

I don't think they would make specific reference to a non-mentioned Demon, but eh, I guess we don't fully know what shiggy and eiji will or won't do.

Why not? There have been other villains besides Ganondorf. Vaati in the Four Swords Trilogy, and the Nightmare in LA (though in all fairness that did feature a Ganon monster as the final form). Point is, there are other villains, and there are unexplained histories of Hyrule.

The King had just 'united' the land. The Gerudo's were the only major tribe left that didn't have an alliance with him, and by most timelines, up to this point Ganondorf had never done anything awful to the Hylians [as he did in FSA]
The King had no major reason to distrust him, and it was in his best interests to form an alliance.

Why would the King trust the leader of a band of thieves? And why not try to amend relationships with a group of people? Going back to my WWII example, the Allies of course eventually repaired their relations with the Germans. Why would the King of Hyrule do any differently with the Gerudos? In fact, if anything, I'm surprised it took 100 years for the Hylians to attempt to deal with the Gerudo. Of course, they may never trust them again, now that they've had two of their leaders turn evil and attempt to rule Hyrule (at least in this timeline).

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Aralith

Most Germans hate what Adolf Hitler did in WWII, yet they still name some of their children Adolf. Perhaps with the Gerudo, it is tradtion to name their men Ganondorf or something. Or it is just a good name to them. After all, why would they have named him Ganondorf in FSA if the previous Ganondorf had done such terrible things in OoT and WW (the only two games with Ganondorf that we know for sure came before FSA, if on the adult timeline).

Yes, but there is only one male Gerudo.
If you knew that your child was going to be the King, would you name him after someone who was despised?

And in OoT, all the Gerudos except Nabooru loved him, so why wouldn't they name their new future leader after him?
A progression of OoT to FSA makes more sense, because he was loved in OoT and hated in FSA.

Why not? There have been other villains besides Ganondorf. Vaati in the Four Swords Trilogy, and the Nightmare in LA (though in all fairness that did feature a Ganon monster as the final form). Point is, there are other villains, and there are unexplained histories of Hyrule.

Vaati was given a background story, and featured in 3 games.
This is one line in a game, using a term [demon] that is used frequently of Ganon.

Why would the King trust the leader of a band of thieves? And why not try to amend relationships with a group of people? Going back to my WWII example, the Allies of course eventually repaired their relations with the Germans. Why would the King of Hyrule do any differently with the Gerudos? In fact, if anything, I'm surprised it took 100 years for the Hylians to attempt to deal with the Gerudo. Of course, they may never trust them again, now that they've had two of their leaders turn evil and attempt to rule Hyrule (at least in this timeline).

As I said before, the King had just reached a state of unity, and the Gerudos were the only tribe he had not yet formed an alliance with.

The general public in OoT seem to dislike the Gerudos [talk to people using the Gerudo mask] so I'd say the King was trying to secure peace.
When someone uses the power of a forbidden Trident, steals a Dark Mirror, spreads Darkness all over the land, and attempts to conquer Hyrule...you wouldn't think they'd be so eager to make an alliance of any kind with him.

However, the fact that you state it's two different Ganondorfs makes it semi-believable, if Ganondorf II pretends to be more peaceful and diplomatic than his predecessor.
But still, I don't think the Gerudo's would name their future King the same thing as the previous one whom they despised...in fact, I doubt they'd even stick to the "the male gets to be King" rule after their previous King brought so much shame to them.

[Aralith]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Yes, but there is only one male Gerudo.
If you knew that your child was going to be the King, would you name him after someone who was despised?

And in OoT, all the Gerudos except Nabooru loved him, so why wouldn't they name their new future leader after him?
A progression of OoT to FSA makes more sense, because he was loved in OoT and hated in FSA.

Why does that progression make any more sense? You've still got a new Ganondorf who turns evil and people are surprised that the King of Evil could have come from the Gerudo tribe. Either way, the view of the Gerudo changed drastically.. If you go OoT to FSA, you have the Gerudo going from being hated as thieves (and even more so after Ganondorf becomes the King of Evil), to being loved as people are surprised the King of Evil came from them. If you go FSA to OoT, you have the Gerudo being loved in FSA and hated in OoT. Oh, and it's been a very long time (too long in fact) since I've played OoT. Remind me. Do the Gerudo still love Ganondorf even after he turns the world into a dark and evil place?

Vaati was given a background story, and featured in 3 games.
This is one line in a game, using a term [demon] that is used frequently of Ganon.

Here's the problem with words like demon in Zelda. With the translations of NoA, it's hard to tell. The Japanese have several words for demon, and which one(s) pertain to Ganondorf and which ones may or may not is really unknown. Hanging whole thesises on words like demon are not good ideas, as the recent thread about Hyrule and the Sacred Realm in TP by Lex proves. Unless it says King of Evil (something we KNOW is attributed to Ganondorf and Ganondorf alone in the Zelda series), I don't think I can be completely convinced that it means Ganon. Hell, I'm still not entirely convinced that that quote is referring to Ganon in my real timeline, let alone a devil's advocate one.

As I said before, the King had just reached a state of unity, and the Gerudos were the only tribe he had not yet formed an alliance with.

The same could be true in my theory.

The general public in OoT seem to dislike the Gerudos [talk to people using the Gerudo mask] so I'd say the King was trying to secure peace.
When someone uses the power of a forbidden Trident, steals a Dark Mirror, spreads Darkness all over the land, and attempts to conquer Hyrule...you wouldn't think they'd be so eager to make an alliance of any kind with him.

Like I said, different Ganondorf. Regardless of how terrible the past Ganondorf had acted, one hundred years had passed and the King of Hyrule was ready to forgive the Gerudo if it would mean unity in his country.

However, the fact that you state it's two different Ganondorfs makes it semi-believable, if Ganondorf II pretends to be more peaceful and diplomatic than his predecessor.

Precisely.

But still, I don't think the Gerudo's would name their future King the same thing as the previous one whom they despised...in fact, I doubt they'd even stick to the "the male gets to be King" rule after their previous King brought so much shame to them.

While this statement has some truth to it, many times the traditions of kingdoms are observed despite the obvious idiocy of it. For example, in ancient China, alchemists who were searching for the Elixir of Life thought they had found it in mercury. For centuries they would feed mercury to their kings in the hopes of making them immortal, even though all it did was make them crazy and eventually kill them. Despite the fact that several of the Chinese philosophers felt that it was the mercury that was causing this, the alchemists ignored this and continued professing it as the Elixir of Life, feeding it to their kings. The point being, that sometimes the previous thoughts and traditions of a society overule the new evidence that comes to light. I think it's very plausible that if Ganondorf was indeed a traditional name that the Gerudo would continue to use this name, despite its bad connotations. They would also continue to let the males be their kings if this was the case.