The "Rejected Hero of Time" theory

[Skylark]

Now this was an idea I was playing around with shortly after reading Tri-Timeline Plus
I started trying to think of what could cause a second split in the timeline and I think I might have found a plausible answer to it. Now I know almost everything in the original theory there and mine go against alot of current Zelda beliefs but it doesn't really contradict any rules.

Now this part is a given:
........WW-PH
OoT-
........MM-TP

Now for the sake of this timeline place MC before OoT. It is kind of needed there to make this work.

CONFUSING PART! Be warned!
The orginal split is quite obvious at the end of OoT. Child and adult ending. I am taking that a bit further. In the child ending Link seems to return before his first meeting with Zelda and he procedes to warn the kingdom of Ganondorf (acording to generally accepted theory). His time travel is also what splites the triforce in the child line. Now since he returned before he orginally left. There SHOULD be two Link's walking around. So there should be a Link warning Hyrule and a Link in kokiri forest. Now when Link prevents Ganondorf's plans he is effectivly destroying the purpose of the hero of time. If Ganondorf doesn't cause all the trouble, there is no reason for Link to go questing for the spirtual stones and drawing the Master Sword.
This huge paradox of being two link's at once and the future Link destroying the reason for his current state of being create a new timeline.
The Link that is still in the Kokiri forest is "rejected" and the timeline is split from there. This Link, while still biologically the same Link as before can't be the hero of time. As the position is already filled by himself in the other timeline. This would mean any events relying on the HoT can't happen. Thus Ganondorf never follows Link into the sacred realm and never gets his Triforce piece. So at the end of the day OoT never happens here, Adult of child side.

So now this beast looks like this
WW/PH
/
MC-OoT - MM-TP
.......|
.......?

So what goes there? I propose that FSA (and thus FS) fit the place. Ganondorf is in the game and is after the Trident of Power. Assuming he gave up on the Triforce (because he can't get in the SR at this point without the Hero of TIme to pull the MS.) This timeline leads to all of the games featuring the "blue" pig ganon.
WW/PH
/
MC-OoT-MM-TP
.....|
.....FS/FSA-ALttP/OoX/LA-Loz/Aol

The Link in FS/FSA is possibly the "rejected" link from the 2nd split. Seeing how he is still destined to leave the forest because he is a Hylian. However there is no evidence at all for that and it is pure speculation.

Now I am not fully convinced this is the way the timeline actually is. I normally support a two way split with the 2d games in the child line. The developers probbaly haven't even thought a 3-way split. But it was fun and challenging to work with a new idea. If this theory goes well I might adopt it as my "official" timeline, but I doubt it will. Just try to think outside the box for this one and forget about traditional theories.

I do like the fact that this allows much more flexibility as far as Vatti and Zant are concerned.

Edit: Link fixed

[Erimgard]

That link to the other thread is broken.

Well, why would the 'rejected' line come as after MC?
Wouldn't it also stem off of OoT?

The generally accepted idea is that Link 'becomes' the link in the past.

EDIT:
Also, how does "rejected" Link become friends with the Princess? She knows that Link has left, and the "rejected" hero has no reason to go visit Zelda.

[Skylark]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

That link to the other thread is broken.

Well, why would the 'rejected' line come as after MC?
Wouldn't it also stem off of OoT?

The generally accepted idea is that Link 'becomes' the link in the past.

EDIT:
Also, how does "rejected" Link become friends with the Princess? She knows that Link has left, and the "rejected" hero has no reason to go visit Zelda.

It was the "tri-timeline plus" thread on the 2nd page. Ill try to fix the link.

Mc comes first so too much time doesnt pass between the "would be OoT" and FSA. It technically exsists because of OoT. But since that game never happens in this timeline I figured the line should start before it.

I fail to see how he could just "become" the Link. It would leave all the kokiri's wondering where he poofed to.

Well, Link has to leave the forest eventually. He is a Hylian afterall. How they meet is pure speculation and assumption. So I'll leave that part out.

Also Erimgard, you are a very quick responder

[Erimgard]

If Ganondorf was already stopped, thanks to Hero of Time, then the Deku Tree would never have to send Link on his mission, right?
And thus, Link wouldn't discover he wasn't a Kokiri until he started growing bigger than the other kids.

The only reason he met the Princess in the first place is because the Deku Tree sent him, and he was able to sneak in. This Link has no reason/way to get into the castle and meet Zelda.
Not to mention, the geography of FSA doesn't appear to be congruent with that of OoT.

Also, this doesn't really create a third timeline.
It would still only be two timelines, but one would contain two Links. What's the overall order of your child timeline?

[Skylark]

I never gave a reason how the meet. I never said that it WAS the same link in FSA. I said it could be. He could still be sent on the quest. But due to the fact that he isn't the HoT he can't finish it and ganondorf can't follow him into the SR. Thus Ganondorf goes after the trident instead.

-quick thought- everything could be the same up until the begining for Four swords. Instead of going after the triforce Zelda takes him to check on the Four sword. -probbaly way off there but just typing what comes to mind.

I dont take geography into account. I use place names but not locations on a map. To me the maps are not made for any really timeline purpose, just gameplay for the certain game. Because if that was the case there is NO way to explain OoT- TP. but I think there is another thread about that so I wont go into it.

Two Link's (the same one even) can't coexsist at once. Just doesn't work in my opinion. The one stays where he changed the future and the other is still as he was at the begining of OoT. But since he is not the hero of time here, the game never happens.

The child timeline just goes to MM-TP and nothing else is there yet.

-time to sit back and watch as my fun little side theory is ripped to shreads.:XD

[Erimgard]

If, according to you, two Links can't co-exist, how does an extra split make more sense than the two combining into one?
How/when did the third split occur by your logic?
If two Links can't co-exist, then one of them should just vanish upon Link's return...which is what appears to have happened.
How would it cause another timeline split?

And seeing as Shigeru and Eiji have said many times that there are two endings, I don't see why there should be theoretically 3 timelines as a result.

[Skylark]

Oh I know it goes against what they say. I just found it fun to try to find the way around the other thread's problem of not even having an idea of what causes the third line. I am still supporting my orginal timeline that was on the wikipage.

If one of the Links just "poofed" it would cause alot of confusion among whoever was around. I think that it just forces each timeline to seperate because of it. Also by Link stopping all of Ganon's plans before they happen would change the past so that The future Link would never exsist because the past one would never need to go on the quest to get the MS to defeat ganon and then come back after sealing and warn....it goes in circles...

[dingo131]

Originally Posted by Skylarkff

WW/PH
/
MC-OoT-MM-TP
.....|
.....FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-OoX-Loz/Aol

k, so why does the bottom line kinda go backwards to the order that those games were released?

[Erimgard]

Timelines don't really have anything to do with release date.

[Leven Six]

Signed up because Skylark made me.

Now, this is the story as I see it, since he likes the way my portion of his theory works:

Suppose, as Sky suggests, the timeline does split again. That is, there is two of everything. The Hero Link warns Zelda, and Ganon is imprisoned. At this time, Rejected Link is still in the Kokiri Forest. However, since the Deku Tree is unaware of what is going on, as would Ganondorf prior to the time travel, the Deku Tree is still cursed, and still assigns Reject Link the Mission to save the world.

So the stream just within the timelines is:

HoT Link warns Zelda
Reject Link is somewhere in the Deku Tree

Now this is where it gets tricky:

Hero Link has nothing to do, and Navi leaves. Hero Link, realizing he could never keep up on foot, takes Epona and goes after her. However, since R. Link is still thinking he needs to get the M.S, he goes to see Zelda as per the Deku tree's instructions.

At this point, the timestream looks like this
Hero Link triggers events of MM
R. Link goes off to see Zelda.

Now I'm sure Zelda has realized, or at least guessed, that there are now 2 "Link"s within the timeline. Therefore, she assigns R. Link a new task: to protect the Four Sword if a time arises that requires him to do so. Any information, including Zelda's befriending R. Link (I'm calling him FS Link from now on), is entirely up to speculation. One theory I propose is that Zelda doesn't realize it at all and proceeds to assign him the task, but when it comes time to pull the sword he can't. Ergo, Zelda assigns him the Four Sword task, while Ganondorf, realizing his path into the sacred realm is now gone, hunts down the trident. Later, the seal does weaken and FS Link goes and activates the events of FS and so on.

Timestream for Hero
Back to the past, explanation and arrest, MM and traditional child timelines from there

Timestream for Preexisting Link
Begin as normal, get informed about Ganondorf, M.S., and Four Sword, Time and friendship, Four Sword events occur. Middle two being interchangeable.


Of course, I myself feel it's pretty solid, but if you have a contradiction in this explanation, be my guest.

[Erimgard]

One big problem:
If the timeline actually does split as the maker of this thread suggests, then the Princess technically wouldn't know there's two Links.
If the split occurs because two Links can't be in the same timeline, then that means Hero Link warns Zelda and goes off to Termina.
But since there's a split, Reject Link goes to Zelda, and the whole game of OoT would happen over again.

If there are two Link's co-existing, you need to explain how the timeline works with two Links.

If there are not two Links, because the timeline split to separate them, then in the 'reject' timeline, Hero Link never returned and warned Zelda, and thus Reject Link would be the first Link to talk to her, and OoT would happen all over again.

[Skylark]

Originally Posted by Leven Six

Signed up because Skylark made me.

Now, this is the story as I see it, since he likes the way my portion of his theory works:

Suppose, as Sky suggests, the timeline does split again. That is, there is two of everything. The Hero Link warns Zelda, and Ganon is imprisoned. At this time, Rejected Link is still in the Kokiri Forest. However, since the Deku Tree is unaware of what is going on, as would Ganondorf prior to the time travel, the Deku Tree is still cursed, and still assigns Reject Link the Mission to save the world.

So the stream just within the timelines is:

HoT Link warns Zelda
Reject Link is somewhere in the Deku Tree

Now this is where it gets tricky:

Hero Link has nothing to do, and Navi leaves. Hero Link, realizing he could never keep up on foot, takes Epona and goes after her. However, since R. Link is still thinking he needs to get the M.S, he goes to see Zelda as per the Deku tree's instructions.

At this point, the timestream looks like this
Hero Link triggers events of MM
R. Link goes off to see Zelda.

Now I'm sure Zelda has realized, or at least guessed, that there are now 2 "Link"s within the timeline. Therefore, she assigns R. Link a new task: to protect the Four Sword if a time arises that requires him to do so. Any information, including Zelda's befriending R. Link (I'm calling him FS Link from now on), is entirely up to speculation. One theory I propose is that Zelda doesn't realize it at all and proceeds to assign him the task, but when it comes time to pull the sword he can't. Ergo, Zelda assigns him the Four Sword task, while Ganondorf, realizing his path into the sacred realm is now gone, hunts down the trident. Later, the seal does weaken and FS Link goes and activates the events of FS and so on.

Timestream for Hero
Back to the past, explanation and arrest, MM and traditional child timelines from there

Timestream for Preexisting Link
Begin as normal, get informed about Ganondorf, M.S., and Four Sword, Time and friendship, Four Sword events occur. Middle two being interchangeable.


Of course, I myself feel it's pretty solid, but if you have a contradiction in this explanation, be my guest.

I do not agree that there is two of everything. Everything else is good. It is more like everything is parallel up until he can't pull out the MS and whatnot.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Skylarkff

. It is more like everything is parallel up until he can't pull out the MS and whatnot.

The second split wouldn't occur when Ganondorf finds out he can't pull the MS.
If it splits because of two Links in the same timeline, it would split as soon as Link returns.
And thus, Reject Link would be the first Link to talk to Zelda, and he would become Hero Link.

[Hombre de Mundo]

I know Erimgard has said it... because he's more active than I am. Well I have a girlfriend, so screw you, Erimgard [/bad attempt to make himself look better]

I don't see a reason for that second split.

Originally Posted by skylarkff

The Link that is still in the Kokiri forest is "rejected" and the timeline is split from there.

Why would it split?

Seriously, it seems that ever since the split was confirmed, a lot of people try to mess with the timeline even further. Splitting and merging happening for reasons that aren't even time-related.

Link not being the HoT makes time split? Kind of like, how Ganon's death (even though he was never actually killed in FSA) in both timelines result in a merge? ALttP happening causes a merge? FSA creates another split why? PH creates another split why? Link saving Termina causes X splits resulting in X different timelines that all get destroyed? For what reason is this important?

I swear to Xenu, I've seen so many ideas of reasons for splitting and merging, it's not even fun. Like that dude who once said the timelines merges after WW, and justified it with "I don't like the split timeline theory."

Oh, and who made that theory when the timeline splits first after OoT, then after tMC, then after the Oracles and then after FSA, which joined timeline with OoT for some goddamn reason?

The OoT Split is accounted for, there is a reason for assuming it exists, the games work with two ending of OoT and everything makes sense. Letting FSA split into MM which also follows OoT does not! I hate it when people split and merge just for the sake of it, not even trying to make sense of it. It's like "okay, let's spice this up by throwing a split after tMC, then maybe a merge after MM and then split again in LoZ, because Ganon doesn't have a Trident, then let that merge with pre-OoT and SC2 and make Tingle Link's father...

This has been called Zelda: Serious Business for a reason, not Zelda: Dowhateveryouwant Business.


Okay, so take no personal offense, my good skylarkff, I just feel like throwing off a good rant here, kay? Many excuses if I acted like a madman.

[Skylark]

I think you misunderstood. R. Link is the one who can't pull out the MS. Because he isnt the hero of time, due to the whole paradox thing. Ganondorf can't even get behind the door of time without Link's help. I have always been under the assumption that it split as soon as he returned. Maybe I didnt make that clear enough.

To hombre: I just saw the other topic that I linked to and wanted to somehow think of a way where it could work. I have always thought the "generaly accepted" way that link came back and stopped ganondorf was weird so I worked from there. There isnt a split after MC. It is just that in the 3rd line oot doesnt happen because of the paradox.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Skylarkff

I think you misunderstood. R. Link is the one who can't pull out the MS. Because he isnt the hero of time, due to the whole paradox thing. Ganondorf can't even get behind the door of time without Link's help. I have always been under the assumption that it split as soon as he returned. Maybe I didnt make that clear enough.

If the second split occurs as soon as Hero Link returns, then that means the timeline where Reject Link goes to see the Princess is not the same timeline as the one where Hero Link goes off to Termina
If they are completely different timelines, split prior to the drawing of the Master Sword, then what you say happens, can't happen.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

I know Erimgard has said it... because he's more active than I am. Well I have a girlfriend, so screw you, Erimgard [/bad attempt to make himself look better]

[Skylark]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

If the second split occurs as soon as Hero Link returns, then that means the timeline where Reject Link goes to see the Princess is not the same timeline as the one where Hero Link goes off to Termina
If they are completely different timelines, split prior to the drawing of the Master Sword, then what you say happens, can't happen.

How so? im saying that because of the paradox one Link gets the rights to the HoT. the other doesnt.

[Leven Six]

Originally Posted by Skylarkff

I do not agree that there is two of everything. Everything else is good. It is more like everything is parallel up until he can't pull out the MS and whatnot.

When I say multiple, I mean they are effectively the "same" person, but there are now 2 physical Ganondorfs, 2 physical Master Swords, 2 Physical Kings of Hyrule, so on and such forth. 1 exists in each parallel timeline, to keep consistency with generally believed canon, such as Ganondorf and the Twilight. 1 version, or as I refer to it, one of him, gets placed in the Twilight (HoT timestream) and one of him gets totally displaced with his triforce plans and decides a giant fork is more his style (Blue "pig" Ganon, usually with Trident of Power)

For clarity's sake, we were thinking the same thing with different words.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Skylarkff

How so? im saying that because of the paradox one Link gets the rights to the HoT. the other doesnt.

So the Princess goes "Link, go get the three spiritual stones, and pull the sword!"
Then she runs away, and throws you the Ocarina.
You try to pull the MS, but fail.

....then what?
The princess is gone. Where does the beginning of FS happen?
Zelda comes back a few weeks later "oh...my bad....BY THE WAY did you know about this guy named Vaati???"

Seems very far-fetched and illogical to me.

[Skylark]

I'm under the assumption that because he ins't destined to be the hero of time, events unfold differently. Exactly how I didn't put much thought into because there is nothing to say what happened. I used The MS as an example that he wouldn't be able to pull it out even if he tried.
I guess this is the part of the theory that relies on speculation and assumption. Much like that people need to assume the MS was rediscovered after TWW somehow or how the triforce went back to the SR depending on where you place AlttP.