Is the Twilight Realm the same as the Sacred Realm?

[Sam250]

This was something I wondered for a number of reasons throughout the game, but it really occurred to me solidly when I replayed the game and again saw this cut scene:

YouTube - The Legend of Zelda: TP- Bizarre Cutscene

So, the land where the goddesses descended is the sacred realm, yes? Now, the dark interlopers tried to gain dominion over the sacred realm. Then their power was sealed away. Finally, their power was the fused shadows you collect throughout the first half of the game. these are the facts.

Now, towards the end of the game when Minda kills Zant, she mentions that the power when used (the power of the fused shadows) was that of her ancestors.

If the interlopers were her ancestors, and they managed to gain dominion over the sacred realm for a short period of time, then wouldn't it be logical to assume that the twilight realm and sacred realm are one and the same?

[Twilight Wolf]

The Twili ancestors did take over the Sacred Realm briefly, but it was quickly reclaimed by the goddesses and the light spirits shortly afterward. The interlopers were then sealed in the living hell known as the Twilight Realm, a completely different place.

I think you have the Twilight Realm confused with the Dark World. The Dark World is what the Sacred Realm became after Ganon took over. However, I know for a fact that the Sacred Realm/Dark World and the Twilight Realm are completely different places.

[Sam250]

Originally Posted by Twilightwolf64

The Twili ancestors did take over the Sacred Realm briefly, but it was quickly reclaimed by the goddesses and the light spirits shortly afterward. The interlopers were then sealed in the living hell known as the Twilight Realm, a completely different place.

How do we know that the interlopers were sealed at all- we are only told that their powers are sealed in the fused shadows. Also, the twilight realm dosn't exactly seem like a living hell. The inhabitants seem peacful, the only monsters were their because Zant had transformed the Twili, and Midna dosn't exactly seem particually adverse to it. How did you work this out?

I think you have the Twilight Realm confused with the Dark World.

Well, seeing as the Sacred Realm is the Dark Realm, albeit under Ganon's rule (though the Twilight Realm is also under Ganons rule, through Zant), then, yes, that is exactly what I am trying to establish.

I know for a fact that the Sacred Realm/Dark World and the Twilight Realm are completely different places.

Feel free to prove it.

[Erimgard]

We know that the Twili were actually sealed, because they are sealed in the Twilight Realm in the game.

If the Interlopers pissed off the goddesses by trying to take over the Sacred Realm, why would they be banished to the Sacred Realm?
They are clearly two different places.

The entrance to the Twilight Realm is said to be the Twilight Mirror.
The entrance to the Sacred Realm is said to be the Temple of Time.

[Sam250]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

We know that the Twili were actually sealed, because they are sealed in the Twilight Realm in the game.

If the Interlopers pissed off the goddesses by trying to take over the Sacred Realm, why would they be banished to the Sacred Realm?
They are clearly two different places.

Read my above post. a)How do we know that they are sealed? Yes, there is certainly a barrier between the worlds, but Hylians are as much sealed in their world as the Twili are in theirs. b) Maybe they didn't need to banish them at all; again, there is nothing in the game to suggest that the Goddesses did anything to the interlopers themselves, only that their power was sealed in the fused shadows. So, no, the Goddesses did not banish them to the sacred realm, they only took away their powers so that they could cause no trouble their. See?

The entrance to the Twilight Realm is said to be the Twilight Mirror.
The entrance to the Sacred Realm is said to be the Temple of Time.

Oh, so that is definitive proof, eh? There couldn't possibly be two entrances, could their?! Considering their are already a whole host of other entrances scattered around the world in AlttP, aren’t there. Also, to my knowledge (though I may be wrong) the only reason that there was a portal at Hyrule Castle was that was the first place Agahnim first broke through, creating a rift their.

I am fairly certain that there is nothing in the game tha suggests that the Twilight Realm isn't the sacred realm. I get the feeling it was supposed to be obvious in the first place, but maybe things got lost in translation.

[Erimgard]

There are other entrances in aLttP because Ganon touched the whole Triforce and was using his powers to literally combine the SR and Hyrule into one.

Also, here's some quotes [literal Japanese translation and NoA translation]

Originally Posted by Jumbie's TP Translations

・・・精霊が言ってた影の結晶石にまつわる話を覚えているか?
…Do you remember the spirit's speech about the Crystal Stone of Shadow?
…Do you remember what the spirit said about the Fused Shadows?

魔力で聖地を治めようとした者達はその後・・・どうなったと思う?
After those people tried to rule the Sacred Realm with magic… what do you think became of them?
What do you think happened to the magic wielders who tried to rule the Sacred Realm?

聖地ハイラルを追われ神によって、ある場所に追いやられたのさ
Chased by the Gods across the Sacred Realm Hyrule, they were thrust aside to some place.
They were banished. They were chased across the sacred lands of Hyrule and driven into another realm by the goddesses.

そこは、日の光輝くハイラルとは　対極を成す もうひとつの世界
It was another world, the antithesis of Hyrule where the sunlight shines.
It was another world entirely... The antithesis of Hyrule, where the sun shines bright.

光とは　決して　交わることは　できない　影と呼ばれる領域
Since that territory could never mingle with the light, it was referred to as Shadow.
Its denizens became shadows that could not mingle with the light.

そして、影の世界へ落とされた者達は　元の世界に戻ることは許されず・・・
And the people who were dumped into the Shadow World were not permitted to return to the original world…
Eventually, most came to call it the Twilight Realm, and from it, none could return to the world of light...

ハイラルの影として永遠に　陰りの中で生きるように　なったそうだ・・・
They were forever doomed to live as shadows of Hyrule inmidst the gloom…
They were forever doomed to live in the twilight, flitting in the half-light of dusk, mere shadows of Hyrule...

これは、ワタシ達に伝わる　我が影の一族の歴史・・・
This is the history of us, the Shadow Clan, as it has been passed down to us.
This is the history of the Twili as it has been passed down from our ancestors...

ワタシが何者なのか　わかっただろ?
Do you now understand what I am?
Do you now understand what I am?

光の世界から影の世界に落とされた一族の末[?]なのさ
I'm a descendant of the clan that was dumped from the Light World to the Shadow World.
I'm a descendant of the tribe that was banished to the Twilight Realm!

しかし、その影の世界はザントによって支配され、一族はあの影の魔物に変えられた
However, the Shadow World came to be controlled by Zant, and the clan was transformed into those shadow beasts.
It was a peaceful place...until Zant took control of the Twilight Realm and transformed all of the Twili into shadow beasts.

ヤツはいつの間にか　一族の力とは違う　巨大な魔力を持ち
He had unnoticedly gained an enormous magic different from the clan's power.
It's clear to me now that he somehow gained a great evil power previously unknown to our tribe...

影の世界へは、ヤツの力が無ければ　入ることは　できなくなった
I could no longer get into the Shadow World without his power.
In any case, I was sent from there, and could no longer get into the Twilight Realm without his power.

しかし、一族の言い伝えの中に　こんな話が　あるんだ
But there's another tale passed on by the clan.
...But there's another tale told by my people.

神は、一族が元の世界に戻ることを禁じたが　光と影を繋ぐ鍵を　1つだけ残したという
Though the gods forbade the clan to return to the original world, they left one single key connecting light and shadow, as is told.
Though the goddesses forbade us to return to the world of light, they left one link between the light and the darkness.

それは陰りの鏡と呼ばれ　ハイラルを守る者達に託したと・・・
Something called the Mirror of Gloom was entrusted to the protectors of Hyrule…
Something called the Mirror of Twilight was passed to the protectors of Hyrule…

ヤツは、必ず影の世界にいる
As for HIM, he most certainly is in the Shadow World.
It's our only path to the Twilight Realm...and we must get there!

一緒に・・・行ってくれないか?
Together… we'll go, won't we?
You'll come with me...won't you?

The Twili were clearly banished, and not just stripped of their power.

[Goronlove7]

later in the game midna actually explains this. It's before Arbiters grounds.

[Hombre de Mundo]

Originally Posted by some stuff or Erimgard's

It was another world entirely

This alone proves that it isn't the same realm as the sacred realm. For such is the english language, that something that is completely new can't have been seen anywhere, anytime before.

[Erimgard]

Exactly. They were chased across one realm, and banished to another realm.
Seeing as those lines are in direct succession, how can they be the same?

[Ganon the King]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

We know that the Twili were actually sealed, because they are sealed in the Twilight Realm in the game.

If the Interlopers pissed off the goddesses by trying to take over the Sacred Realm, why would they be banished to the Sacred Realm?
They are clearly two different places.

The entrance to the Twilight Realm is said to be the Twilight Mirror.
The entrance to the Sacred Realm is said to be the Temple of Time.

So when Link pulls the MS from the pedestal (in TP) why didn't he open up the gateway to the Sacred Realm?

Major flaw of TP? Major flaw of Zelda in general? Anyone...?

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

So when Link pulls the MS from the pedestal (in TP) why didn't he open up the gateway to the Sacred Realm?

Major flaw of TP? Major flaw of Zelda in general? Anyone...?

It's possible that since the ToT is destroyed, it is no longer the seal to the Sacred Realm.
I doubt nintendo just 'forgot' about it. I'm sure there's some reason.

[Hombre de Mundo]

^ I keep telling you guys the ToT was moved. As such, it doens't necessarily connect with the Sacred Realm anymore ;-)

[Ganon the King]

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

^ I keep telling you guys the ToT was moved. As such, it doens't necessarily connect with the Sacred Realm anymore ;-)

Good point, but now I want to know why it was moved.

God all this theorising on TP... of all games that I'd like to be theorising about.

[Ganon the King]

Originally Posted by Goronlove7

whats ToT?

ToT = Temple of Time.

[Hombre de Mundo]

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Good point, but now I want to know why it was moved.

We can but speculate. One reason could be that it was drawing bad guys like Ganondorf to town, being a jerk killing people and threatening to take the Triforce and whatnot.

God all this theorising on TP... of all games that I'd like to be theorising about.

Then you make a thread about something else ;-)

[Ganon the King]

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

We can but speculate. One reason could be that it was drawing bad guys like Ganondorf to town, being a jerk killing people and threatening to take the Triforce and whatnot.



Then you make a thread about something else ;-)

I don't know what you mean. What does Ganondorf have anything to do with the ToT being "destroyed" or "moved."

I have an idea:

Could Ganondorf's crime (the one he committed in TP backstory) be that he destroyed the ToT trying to gain access to the Sacred Realm.

Also, the link to the Sacred Realm was the sword, not the ToT...



And what I meant was that all the theorising I ever seem to do is mainly about TP, although MM is my favourite game and there isn't much to theorise for it.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Could Ganondorf's crime (the one he committed in TP backstory) be that he destroyed the ToT trying to gain access to the Sacred Realm.

perhaps

Also, the link to the Sacred Realm was the sword, not the ToT...

I'm pretty sure the ToT was built over the only remaining entrance to the SR, and the MS was placed there as a 'key'...so they are both necessary.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

although MM is my favourite game and there isn't much to theorise for it.

Really? It's the most mysterious game of all! I've seen many a MM theory.

[Hombre de Mundo]

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

I don't know what you mean. What does Ganondorf have anything to do with the ToT being "destroyed" or "moved."

I have an idea:

Could Ganondorf's crime (the one he committed in TP backstory) be that he destroyed the ToT trying to gain access to the Sacred Realm.

Also, the link to the Sacred Realm was the sword, not the ToT...

Ganondorf came to Hyrule to get the Triforce. Then there was some fuss apparently (understatement of the year) and after that, maybe the Royal Family and/or the sages decided to move the temple to prevent further events like that. Master Sword was a key to the SR, but the SR was never bound to the sword itself.

And what I meant was that all the theorising I ever seem to do is mainly about TP, although MM is my favourite game and there isn't much to theorise for it.

How about this one?

EDIT: *points to Erimgard's sig* It's true...

[Orici]

I have a question:
- From what it sounds like, the ToT was built to protect the already existing entrance to the sacred Realm. So...was the entrance just out in the open before? And if it was moved before TP, what happened to the entrance?

[Hombre de Mundo]

^ Nobody knows... *makes mysterious gesture*