Tri-Timeline Plus

[NuHylian7]

First off, I was goint to post this on an already existing thread but it seemed like its own topic. Now I'm new here so if I cover old ground please tear me to shreads politely. Actually, I'm also kinda old here, I just went by a different name a long time ago, and was run off on a rail by the Linear Timeline Wisemen who I really respect but would have nothing to do with my theories. It still may be no one wants anything to do with them but here goes anyway...

So without further ado, The Tri-Timeline Plus...

As was my theory long ago, If time suffers an event that would cause itself to collapse on itself such as a time travel backward resulting in a paradox, Rather than impload it splits space time into corresponding dimentions, With one person acting as the key between the two's creation by time travel. This theory has been often used to explain away time travel paradoxes including games such as crono cross, which focused specifically on the split dimention property of space time.

At the base of the split you have two worlds very much alike but differ in one key main event, that event changes the future of said events drastically till the barely or no longer resemble each other what so ever.

So far I think most people will agree we can apply these rules to Zelda's Child and Adult time line existance. But I wish to go a step further. I say everytime Link travels back the laws of the split dimentional property remain the same. I think his time travel experiance is more alike in each game than we give credit. For instance.

First take the time travel in OoT and make it a constant rule. Then apply it to MM. What you get is a numerous amount of failed timelines in which the moon crashes into Termina. But they all end the same way, keeping the equilibrium of time dimentional splitting.

One could go as far to say for every event there is an opposite event and a subsequent timeline equaling infinite timelines, but I say it goes to what I said in the beginning time travel must be involved to split spacetime dimentions.

Also just to throw this out there even though it reaks of specualtion and borders if not is fanfic, Termina is an alternate world that could just as well been created by one of these time splits. But throw that out if you want, I think I probably will.

Finally I find that more than one split is the only way we have to reconsile ALttP to OoT without devoiding it from the series. Some might call it a classic timeline and believe that that is where the creators will go with this seperate the new games from the old. But I'm offerning an example of a model that works useing a spacetime event that has already been acknowledged by the creators. Multi Dimentional Events. And without adding to the story by any of us I see no way to complete the cycle than at least a three way split. Until the creators fill in gaps, this is my theory and I ask you to consider it.

NuHylian

[Erimgard]

So you're suggesting another split created by MM then?
Or am I misunderstanding?
At any lengths, seeing as MM is on the child timeline, how would a split caused by MM create an OoT-aLttP connection? The seal was never cast in the child timeline, so it'd be just as likely that aLttP happens on the child timeline as a third timeline. It doesn't solve the "WW severed the OoT-aLttP connection" problem.

[langford]

I like the idea of a "classic" timeline that is separate from the modern games, but I'm not sanguine with really attributing it to in game events. It seems to be more a product of Nintendo just wanting to reboot the series from OOT.

On the other hand, this kind of reinterpretation based on the wacky the plot-hole-riddled timetravel in Zelda is good clean fun, and I like reading it. I had a timeline I made up under a similar concept, even though I don't think it matches up with Nintendo's plans in any way.

For normal timeline nitpicking, the idea of LTTP branching off of the child timeline via MM doesn't sit well with me, because the plot of the Adult timeline matches up with LTTP. Not to suggest your reasoning couldn't apply, there is clearly a lot of wiggle room with a flexible interpretation of timetravel.

[NuHylian7]

no, I don't think MM created the split for ALttP, that's not what I ment, I'm just very scattered brained when I write. I'm still looking for the event that would be my missing split instigator, I was just bringing in MM to show that I believe the effects of time travel to be constant. If anything the only thing I can infer is that the original event caused the three way rift.

Why is what I have to figure out now.

So I'm taking my theory more into Space-time philosophy, more on why and less on how since I think I have a how for the most part.

If there is a three way split from Link coming back to the child time line then there must be a why. Does it have to do with three... three spirtual stones, three goddesses, three peaces of triforce, three timelines, probably not. Interesting pattern though, maybe it will come up later.

Question, what was the event that released Ganondorf from the sacred realm in WW. I havn't finished it yet.



NuHylian

[langford]

Originally Posted by NuHylian7

no, I don't think MM created the split for ALttP, that's not what I ment, I'm just very scattered brained when I write. I'm still looking for the event that would be my missing split instigator, I was just bringing in MM to show that I believe the effects of time travel to be constant. If anything the only thing I can infer is that the original event caused the three way rift.

Why is what I have to figure out now.

So I'm taking my theory more into Space-time philosophy, more on why and less on how since I think I have a how for the most part.

If there is a three way split from Link coming back to the child time line then there must be a why. Does it have to do with three... three spirtual stones, three goddesses, three peaces of triforce, three timelines, probably not. Interesting pattern though, maybe it will come up later.

Question, what was the event that released Ganondorf from the sacred realm in WW. I havn't finished it yet.



NuHylian

Ganondorf was released from the Sacred Realm in WW because the Master Sword lost it's power to keep him sealed. Presumable the sages passed away, and with them the power of the Master Sword faded. Whether his minions killed them or whether it was old age is unknown. I find it amusing that in both WW and LTTP there seems to be a sign of Ganon attempting to effect his escape by targeting the sages.

I'm pretty sure the real reason LTTP was replaced by WW was a simple matter of Nintendo starting over, but there plenty of fun time related excuses if you want to see them. One suggestion might be that since every time Link goes back it creates a news split, one of the games diverged from one of the abandoned timelines that Link came back from. I kinda like the idea of the prophecies the games suggest being treated the same way as timetravel, which is what I based a multi-line chart on: http://mysticpaint.com/img/temp/zelda_timeline_01.png . I don't think the chart is true, but I think it's a fun idea.

[NuHylian7]

The time line in your link is closer to my reasoning. I know I'm a timeline extreamist but I'm not going off the makers intentions as I don't know if they are sure what they are doing. I saw someone on here quote them that they still intend to make a working timeline (split included) that includes every game of the series. Seeing as I've lost my faith in the makers pulling this together I've turned to my own hypothesis till more gaps are filled in and my faith restored. Plus you are right langford. It is fun.

NuHylian

[Erimgard]

So you're saying you don't know how/why/what etc...but somehow there are three timelines after OoT?

OoT-MM-TP
OoT-WW-PH
OoT-aLttP

?

[NuHylian7]

No, I'm saying that the split is a three way split, that's the how, the what would be the split itself, I don't have a why yet. But I'm working on it, I've got alot of games to play.

I'm starting to think that ALttP is an equalibrium timeline where as the WW the hero did not appear, if I am correct, to stop Ganon when he escaped the Seal hance the flood, and in TP the hero did appear even though Ganon was never sealed by the sages. As in one the world is not destroyed and another Ganon is not sealed, there seems to be a timeline that did it the right way, in which Link reclaims the sacred realm and wishes everything right with the triforce. Still specualtion though and I'm sorry for that.

We see equilibrium kick in at other times like Ganondorf getting the ToP in TP and effect from another time line as if triforce pieces transcend dimentions.

NuHylian

[Erimgard]

Well, I don't exactly see what you're getting at.
You don't know why it split that way, and you don't know what games the third split has?
Why argue for a third split when there's no games that go on timeline 3?

[NuHylian7]

the third split has at least ALttP, maybe more I havn't studied the later (earlier games) fitting into timelines because there isn't much to go on in them.

If Ganon dies in TP and WW, then I see with the story the way it is a nescecitty for a third split for continuity reasons. However Ganon dies at the End of ALttP so I'm not sure how LoZ and AoL fit after any time line. I guess I need to go into a corner and think some.

But as you can see I don't propose a timeline with no games.

CHILD TIMELINE- OoT-MM-TP (Link splits triforce by coming back)
/
Equlibrium -OoT---------------ALttP (this is how it was suppose to happen)
\
ADULT TIMELINE-OoT-WW-PH (triforce split in first timeline, triforce trancends all three)


Equilibrium exists as... a place...merges. Oh Crap! I give up

So much for an original idea

NuHylian

[Erimgard]

Well, I had thought of a timeline like this too, but the fact is you just can't make it work.
There can't be a direct progression of OoT-aLttP, because the state of the Triforce is wrong.
So, if you have to put games in between OoT and aLttP anyway, you might as well put aLttP on one of the already existing timelines instead of trying to make a third timeline.

[langford]

Originally Posted by NuHylian7

the third split has at least ALttP, maybe more I havn't studied the later (earlier games) fitting into timelines because there isn't much to go on in them.

If Ganon dies in TP and WW, then I see with the story the way it is a nescecitty for a third split for continuity reasons. However Ganon dies at the End of ALttP so I'm not sure how LoZ and AoL fit after any time line. I guess I need to go into a corner and think some.

But as you can see I don't propose a timeline with no games.

CHILD TIMELINE- OoT-MM-TP (Link splits triforce by coming back)
/
Equlibrium -OoT---------------ALttP (this is how it was suppose to happen)
\
ADULT TIMELINE-OoT-WW-PH (triforce split in first timeline, triforce trancends all three)


Equilibrium exists as... a place...merges. Oh Crap! I give up

So much for an original idea

NuHylian

Equilibrium timeline? That seems very difficult to support. It's not that the reasoning couldn't be used for the events you suggested, it's that the reasoning could be used to justify almost any events no matter how out there they were. It's far too flexible of a device to be used as proof. Not so say I have any better reasoning for my chart, because I don't, I had to invent an unseen timetravel event for the LTTP-WW split.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Well, I had thought of a timeline like this too, but the fact is you just can't make it work.
There can't be a direct progression of OoT-aLttP, because the state of the Triforce is wrong.
So, if you have to put games in between OoT and aLttP anyway, you might as well put aLttP on one of the already existing timelines instead of trying to make a third timeline.

Nintendo made OOT to directly prequel LTTP, regardless of how the connection was damaged by WW's existence. The state of the triforce was not important then, and it really doesn't matter now.

[Erimgard]

Langford, it was not made as a direct progression.
Shigeru told his game developers to make it the IW, but then he told the press that the progression was "OoT-LoZ-AoL-aLttP"

[langford]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Langford, it was not made as a direct progression.
Shigeru told his game developers to make it the IW, but then he told the press that the progression was "OoT-LoZ-AoL-aLttP"

You don't believe that 4 game line any more than I do. OOT was made to prequel LTTP, and the events of the other games were ignored.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by langford

You don't believe that 4 game line any more than I do. OOT was made to prequel LTTP, and the events of the other games were ignored.

If you don't believe the director quote, then why believe the quote by the designers who were quoting their director?

EDIT: Just for clarification, I don't think Shiggy really intended to make a sensible progression from OoT to aLttP, but by his own words, it's not a direct progression. Shigery never cared much for timelines.

[langford]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

If you don't believe the director quote, then why believe the quote by the designers who were quoting their director?

EDIT: Just for clarification, I don't think Shiggy really intended to make a sensible progression from OoT to aLttP, but by his own words, it's not a direct progression. Shigery never cared much for timelines.

Ganon is reduced to ashes in LoZ and remains ashes in AoL. Ganon is sealed in OOT, and is still sealed in the same place in LTTP. If you want to believe that AoL preceded LTTP, I won't stop you.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by langford

Ganon is reduced to ashes in LoZ and remains ashes in AoL. Ganon is sealed in OOT, and is still sealed in the same place in LTTP. If you want to believe that AoL preceded LTTP, I won't stop you.

Heh, you know I don't believe that, but what I'm saying is, Shigeru wanted to make OoT the IW without any ramifications.
By saying LoZ-AoL comes in between IW and aLttP, he makes it so that he doesn't have to explain the inaccuracies, and if he wanted to, he could put more games in between them to eventually explain the inaccuracies, or just leave them unexplained.
Point being, he never really intended a direct progression.

[langford]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Heh, you know I don't believe that, but what I'm saying is, Shigeru wanted to make OoT the IW without any ramifications.
By saying LoZ-AoL comes in between IW and aLttP, he makes it so that he doesn't have to explain the inaccuracies, and if he wanted to, he could put more games in between them to eventually explain the inaccuracies, or just leave them unexplained.
Point being, he never really intended a direct progression.

OOT is the IW, there is no question of it. In order to OOT to be the IW, it must be the same Ganon(dorf) as LTTP. If Ganon is released, killed, and re-imprisoned after OOT, then OOT would not be the IW, the new reimprisonment would. If LTTP is allowed to be in a timeline, the only events that could be between OOT and LTTP are events in which Ganon was not tampered with.

[Erimgard]

Originally Posted by langford

In order to OOT to be the IW, it must be the same Ganon(dorf) as LTTP.

Why?

[langford]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Why?

The IW of LTTP is the story of how LTTP Ganon was sealed. There is no reason for them to give a backstory of an alternate Ganon, and then omit the current one.

[Erimgard]

It's the story of how the Sacred Realm is sealed.

[langford]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

It's the story of how the Sacred Realm is sealed.

Ganon is sealed within the sacred realm.

[Erimgard]

He's sealed in OoT too.
The Ganon of aLttP [FSA Ganon in my mind] wasn't sealed by 7 sages, he found the Sacred Realm, and the previous seal still existed.

[langford]

Originally Posted by Erimgard

He's sealed in OoT too.
The Ganon of aLttP [FSA Ganon in my mind] wasn't sealed by 7 sages, he found the Sacred Realm, and the previous seal still existed.

If that was what happened, they would have said that was how he got in there. When OOT was made, LTTP was what was in their minds, not any possible chain of future plotlines to somehow lead back in, especially not games made based on stories by outside developers years and years later.