Merges and loops

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily believe this theory.

Read "The Double ALttP Theory" and "Support for the Merge" first.

There isn't really much in the way of new ideas here. It's mostly taken from Majoraman's theory, which in turn was helped by Hombre de Mundo's theory, so credit to those two, as well as to Biiaru for their Circular Reasoning thread, and to whoever came up with the Triforce of Time (partly for the circular timeline idea, and partly because I like the Triforce of Time xP). And to humulos. Just because he had a nice theory.

----/TWW-PH-TMC-FS-FSA-ALTTP(GBA)-\
OOT-------------------------------------LA-LOZ-AOL-OOX
----\MM-TP----------------ALTTP(SNES)/

(In case that doesn't display as I meant it to, both ALttPs lead into LA. The extra line after the GBA ALttP doesn't mean anything.)

Ok, so the two sides of the split timeline should be no problem, until ALttP. Hombre and Majoraman have detailed their respective theories elsewhere, so I won't explain ALttP's placement either, or the merge.

Alright, so after the merge, Hyrule gets messed up. Water from the Great Sea seeps into the new timeline. This is what causes the storm in LA. That's why Link was taken unawares by the storm. So Link then has the dream/nightmare that is LA, then wakes up and returns to Hyrule. Either with the same Link as ALttP/LA, or a new Link (it doesn't really matter), we then have LoZ and AoL. As stated earlier, Hyrule is now messed up, as the Hyrule of the CT has been partially flooded with the waters of the AT. This leads to the barren landscape of LoZ and the rather watery world of AoL. Then comes OoS/A.

It also might be nice if I could find any evidence for placing OoT after OoX there, thus creating a circular timeline (you could say that the merging of the timelines was the creation of Hyrule as it was the creation of a new timeline).

How does the state of the Triforce go from TP to aLttP?
How is there a seal on the Child Timeline for Ganon to get stuck in prior to aLttP?
Why is there a merge? What caused it?

LA's more correctly translated manual from the Japanese states that Link killed Ganon, fulfilled a legend, went off to train in foreign lands, and then crashed while returning home. This doesn't work well with your theory that the world suddenly became a watery storm due to the merge.

Also, explain how the actual "Legend" of Zelda fits in with this merge/strange change of water.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

How does the state of the Triforce go from TP to aLttP?
How is there a seal on the Child Timeline for Ganon to get stuck in prior to aLttP?
Why is there a merge? What caused it?

LA's more correctly translated manual from the Japanese states that Link killed Ganon, fulfilled a legend, went off to train in foreign lands, and then crashed while returning home. This doesn't work well with your theory that the world suddenly became a watery storm due to the merge.

Also, explain how the actual "Legend" of Zelda fits in with this merge/strange change of water.

^Everything he said
the triforce is split in TP, but together in ALttP, so you need to explain how that occurs.
Ganondorf wasnt sealed in the Sacred Realm during the child timeline, so you need to explain how he's sealed in that version ALttP also.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

How does the state of the Triforce go from TP to aLttP?

An assumption. It's a flaw, but every theory has assumptions, like the assumption that the Triforce is moved to the Sacred Realm between TWW and ALttP in the "Generally Accepted" theory. It could be said that after TP, the Triforce was returned to the Sacred Realm to make it harder for people for people like Ganondorf to get it, although that makes it highly illogical to then seal Ganondorf himself into the Sacred Realm. So yeah, it's a pretty big flaw in the theory.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

How is there a seal on the Child Timeline for Ganon to get stuck in prior to aLttP?

Another flaw. Maybe the Imprisoning War isn't OoT, and the IW (in the CT, at least) actually takes places between TP and ALttP (SNES).

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Why is there a merge? What caused it?

Did you read "Support for the Merge" like I suggested? It's that merge theory I'm using.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

LA's more correctly translated manual from the Japanese states that Link killed Ganon, fulfilled a legend, went off to train in foreign lands, and then crashed while returning home. This doesn't work well with your theory that the world suddenly became a watery storm due to the merge.

After ALttP, Link goes off to foreign lands to train, and then returns home. In this theory, the merge causes the storm, as the Great Sea is flooding into the "normal" Hyrule sea.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Also, explain how the actual "Legend" of Zelda fits in with this merge/strange change of water.

Well, a lot of people don't consider the AoL backstory to be canon. But it probably takes place between LA and LoZ, where the Generally Acceped theory puts it. Obviously this means that it is a different Link in ALttP/LA than in LoZ/AoL.

Originally Posted by Mathias

An assumption. It's a flaw, but every theory has assumptions, like the assumption that the Triforce is moved to the Sacred Realm between TWW and ALttP in the "Generally Accepted" theory. It could be said that after TP, the Triforce was returned to the Sacred Realm to make it harder for people for people like Ganondorf to get it, although that makes it highly illogical to then seal Ganondorf himself into the Sacred Realm. So yeah, it's a pretty big flaw in the theory.

Fear not! I shall help you stand up to that schmuck (this is my new favourite word) Erimgard!

Originally Posted by Someone in ALttP

It was hidden in a sacred
realm beyond the reach of men,
but one day...

Yeah, they reffer to the Triforce as being hidden. Sure, this could just be a choice of words, but it could be that it was hidden by... the Royal Family, for example. That is, assuming that Ganondorf is dead in TP.

Matthias, I understand the concept of the merge, but I've only seen a semi-logical explanation for how the games could merge into aLttP...I've never seen logical reasons for the games to merge after aLttP.

Do you personally consider the AoL story to be canon?
Due to the fact that they kept it in for the GBA remake [but took out the line that states that it's the first Zela] I think it's 100% canon but doesn't have to go anywhere near the start.

Well, if you think that an IW happened sometime after TP and before aLttP, I suggest you include that in your initial post.
You can actually make it work quite well, going with Hombre's quote. It was hidden in the Sacred Realm by TP Link/Zelda or their descendants, and word got out that they hid it, so people began searching for it. Ganon's thieves happened to stumble upon it, and presto! Imprisoning War.

However, how do you account for the fact that Hylian is a dead language in aLttP child side?
It's explained on the adult side, but there's no reason for it on the child.

Oh Hombre, you're just sore because Dallas named the theory of LoZ-AoL on the child side after me instead of you or humulos

Originally Posted by Erimgard

However, how do you account for the fact that Hylian is a dead language in aLttP child side?
It's explained on the adult side, but there's no reason for it on the child.

Actually, there's just as much reason on the child side as on the adult side. Races and languages die with time. The death of the Hylian Language didn't have anything to do with the flood since the first WW-people had to be speaking hylian.

Oh Hombre, you're just sore because Dallas named the theory of LoZ-AoL on the child side after me instead of you or humulos

Ya.... I cry myself to sleep a lot.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

Actually, there's just as much reason on the child side as on the adult side. Races and languages die with time. The death of the Hylian Language didn't have anything to do with the flood since the first WW-people had to be speaking hylian.

Yes, the original post-flood people would speak Hylian, but their culture was completely destroyed which explains why they abandoned the language.
The culture is still thriving in TP.

^ The new language would still be developed from the old. And I'd say that, being isolated on an island makes language developing take even longer. Look at iceland, they have basically the exact same language they (and we, for that matter) had 600 years ago.

Though since tWW and TP are supposed to be parallel, I guess that's not the case in Zelda. In any case, the death of the language and race are justified, seing as how we can't tell how many centuries have passed between games.

Oh it's definitely possible for the language and race to die out in TP...I just don't think it's probable. WW and FSA specifically show us the language is dying.
TP gives no such indication.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Matthias, I understand the concept of the merge, but I've only seen a semi-logical explanation for how the games could merge into aLttP...I've never seen logical reasons for the games to merge after aLttP.

Well, in this theory, they merge during ALttP. Another problem here is: does that mean they merge the first time Link enters the Dark World? Technically it should, but doesn't that somewhat negate the purpose of the Double ALttP theory (or does it? I'm not sure). And yes, I am actually providing evidence against my own theory. I'm strange.
(And it's Mathias, one 't'. Like in Stargate SG-1, O'Neill, two 'l's. Except there isn't a Matthias on ZU who has no sense of humour. :-p)
EDIT: Actually, there's a Matthias on ZU who hasn't made any posts. xD

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Do you personally consider the AoL story to be canon?
Due to the fact that they kept it in for the GBA remake [but took out the line that states that it's the first Zela] I think it's 100% canon but doesn't have to go anywhere near the start.

I do think it's canon, and I think it fits without much problem between LA and LoZ.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Well, if you think that an IW happened sometime after TP and before aLttP, I suggest you include that in your initial post.

Well, to be quite honest, I didn't originally think that. I came up with that after your post to defend my theory. :-p

Wait...if it merges during aLttP, then what's up with your previous statement about the merge happening right after aLttP and causing the sea of LA?

Well, I don't think anyone has any real idea of what actually happens during a merger of two timelines. Assuming that a timeline merge also results in the two Hyrules (the worlds, not the timelines) merging, then the merge could occur gradually, possibly initially only at the spot where Link left Hyrule for the Dark World, and spreading outward, eventually reaching the part of the sea where Link is caught in the storm at the time he is returning from the 'foreign lands'.

The merge doesn't cause the sea, it causes the sea to become very rough.

But this is all highly speculative. HUGELY speculative. IF there is a merge, is it assumed that it takes place immediately and ends immediately?

I don't really see how two nations/times could merge from different dimensions at a slow rate, but I'm no time expert

However, the more I think about it, the more I have to disagree with the Sacred Realm exists outside of the Timelines concept.

The whole concept of this theory is that the Sacred Realm did not split with everything else in the timeline split, and thus, both timelines connect to the SR. When the Links from both timelines entered the Sacred Realm/Dark World simultaneously, they, and everything else were merged.

The more I think about it, the more I think that either nothing at all would merge, or just Link would merge. If the timelines don't affect the SR, and the SR is accessible by both, there's no reason why it would merge them. It might merge duplicates who enter simultaneously, but I really can't see a logical reason why it would merge the timelines themselves...though I'm no interdimensional paradox timeline expert....

But here's where I really have a problem. If the SR is not duplicated in the split, and there is only one SR that connects the two timelines, which is what this theory hinges on, then why are their two Triforces?

Link is sent back to before the Triforce was captured by Ganondorf, so, he was sent back to when it was in the SR. However, since the SR is not affected by timelines, and the Trifore from that SR is already split and in the hands of Link, Ganon, and Zelda, then there should only be one Triforce. There's no reason for us to have a Triforce on both sides of the timeline, because the Triforce exists in a place outside the effects of the split.

After mulling this over in my head, I'm convinced that the Sacred Realm was indeed split with everything else. I already believed this previously, but I think the fact that the Triforce was doubled is proof.