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Old 04-03-2008, 05:02 AM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Prison Tower Theory

I began a new theory on page 19 of the Stone Tower of Babel theory, as an alternative to it. People have suggested that I start a new thread about it so as not to get off-topic there, and it's received some good support so far. This is pasted from the original posting:

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Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1 View Post
I suddenly realized something: majora's mask looks like Majora's true face, but UPSIDE DOWN. (see the statue of Majora's true face, inverted, http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...joraStatue.jpg). Do you see what this could mean? Just like the tower, upside down, is a prison for the mask, the mask, upside-down, is a prison for Majora's spirit. The master garo says that inverting the tower causes the moon to be "born on the earth". I don't think this is a coincidence--- here's the new theory! The Ikana created Majora's Mask in their hexing rituals and were forced to seal it away, building Stone Tower as its prison. Because the mask caused great destruction on earth, they sealed it away in the heavens--- not just in the heavens, but IN THE MOON. The portal above the tower leads there, and by bringing the moon's portal to the earth by inverting the tower, the doorway to the mask is opened so that it can return to earth. Majora's Mask, enraged at its imprisonment, sought to bring the moon ITSELF to the earth, bringing the two worlds together, its prison and its birthplace, to destroy them both.

The hand of the stone tower points to the prison of evil, above the world. The great faces of the stone tower represent the giants, the heroes of the Ikana, which is evident in that their greatest tool, the giant's mask, was created in their image. Its great strength used to build the tower, and in their devotion they crafted the giant's face into the tower. So that Majora's Mask could not be brought back down to the earth, the seal of the tower was created so that only sacred light could bring the portal (bring the MOON, as the master garo said), down to earth. That way, only one with a righteous heart, capable of having the light arrows, could do so, so that no evil force could use the mask again.

Another key--- the fierce deity mask! Majora itself believes this mask to be a "bad guy"--- and why so? Perhaps the fierce deity was the one strong enough to force Majora into its prison, sacrificing himself in the process. His own spirit was imprisoned in a mask with Majora.

Because this happened eons ago, according to the Happy Mask Salesman, it was always known that someday, the great evil would be unleashed, and in its rage it would lay waste to the world. Hence the dire name Termina.


I suggested these as possible directions in the game to look for evidence or related ideas that may help this theory to grow:

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Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1 View Post
1) Perhaps as was suggested, the Garo, instead of the Ikana, created Stone Tower. Igos du Ikana says to Link that even he is unable to conquer it, implying that it is outside his kingdom's boundaries. The artwork within the Ancient Castle of Ikana is also very differently than the artwork in Stone Tower. For example, there are spiral patterns and skulls along the walls of the throne room, neither of which appear in Stone Tower or its temple. If the Garo were the tribe who created and later imprisoned the mask, this would explain why it's the Master Garo who tells Link how to invert the temple. This doesn't affect the theory directly but more information could help add to it.

2) What is the significance of the tongue imagery? The great face of the Stone Tower Temple has a prevalent tongue that Link walks up to enter the temple. Likewise, the stone blocks mentioned by Hylian Dan display creatures with a very large tongue that goes down the front of the block and underneath it, where the tongue holds a triforce (it's not licking or covering its groin, despite what was said earlier. It's just holding a triforce. For a better angle, invert the tower and stand next to the scarecrow on the rightmost ledge). What does these creatures, their tongues, and the triforce on their tongues, symbolize? They could hold some sort of key to understanding Stone Tower better.

3) Termina is known to have counterparts to Hyrulean individuals. Could the Fierce Deity have been Link's own counterpart? When Link transforms into a Goron, or Zora, he gains abilities of those respective species: firey punches, petal flight, bubbles, etc. But in the Fierce Deity form, see what he gets: sword beams (remember NES zelda?), a quick spin attack (rotate and press B), a voice identical to his own 7 years later in life, and a face that matches his own as well. The mask is not just "awakening" his inner abilities; look at the mask when it's OFF his face, when he's holding it over his head after Majora gives it to him, for example: it has the same face on it. The face is IN the mask, and the fact that it's Link's face I believe is very significant. The Fierce Deity must have lived centuries ago, but there's no reason to think that the lifespans of parallel individuals have to match exactly.


The part about the Fierce Deity isn't really necessary to the theory, but since I suggested he may have had a hand in Majora's imprisonment, it could be a related area of study. FD Link could alternatively have been a previous Link, perhaps the one the Hero's Bow referred to, or someone else entirely.

I don't believe the theory as it stands now will be 100% correct, like any theory, but I believe it's headed in the right direction and I'm trying to find more concrete evidence for it. I don't think it's good enough just to paste pictures from Stone Tower, decide they mean something, and use that as support. If anyone can find some more lines from the game(s) that support, or refute parts of, this theory, I would appreciate it. Thanks!
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:12 AM
FinalRound England FinalRound is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

I can agree with this. Like you, I also believe that the Fierce Deity's Mask is the spirit of Termina's 'Link'. I have a theory/story about what his role could have been in Termina's history. Do you want to see that?
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:20 AM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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Originally Posted by FinalRound View Post
I can agree with this. Like you, I also believe that the Fierce Deity's Mask is the spirit of Termina's 'Link'. I have a theory/story about what his role could have been in Termina's history. Do you want to see that?
Sure
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:01 AM
FinalRound England FinalRound is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

Alright! Well...

...I believe that the 'Fierce Deity' was once one of the commanding soldiers in King Igos du Ikana's army. He looked like Link from Hyrule, and they shared the same name, but his personality was different, but in some ways similar. This Link loved battle and war, and while the Hyrulian Link may like to fight, it's mainly to protect something. The Terminian Link just loved fighting, no matter the cause.

It was through this lust for battle that the Terminian Link got his nickname, the 'Fierce Deity'. One of the finest warriors in all of Termina, his aggressive attitude made him 'Fierce' and his skill in fighting made him like a 'Deity'...none could best him in combat. Until...

One day, Majora's Mask was released from its prison (As you put it) in the Stone Tower Temple. It immediately proceeded to wreck havoc on Ikana, and so King Igos du Ikana ordered his finest soldier, Link, to command the King's army and destroy it before all of Termina was wiped out.

Against Majora's overwhelming power, most of the regular soldiers were destroyed. The Terminian Link may have been arrogant and a little selfish, but like any good Deity, he cared about his own. He ordered the soldiers to retreat, and challenged Majora's Mask to a one-on-one duel, during which he was beaten and almost killed.

Majora thought of this man as evil, a 'bad guy', for sending so many soldiers to their deaths. Instead of just simply killing him, it trapped his spirit into a Mask and kept it until that fateful day inside the Moon.

After gaining Fierce Deity's Mask, the Link we all know and love wore it against his final battle with Majora. Immediately, he felt a surge of power and memories as the Terminian Link's soul 'fused' with the Hyrulian Link's, created a perfect being of almost unstoppable power. The Hryulian Link's desire to protect Termina, and his skill, combined with the Terminian Link's strength and desire to fight, proved to be too much for even Majora's full Wrath.

In the aftermath of the fight, when the Moon was being sent back to its rightful place in the sky (Or being destroyed, depending on what you think...), the Fierce Deity had had his revenge against the beast who had trapped his soul for many years inside a mask. Through this, he was able to free himself from the mask and rest in peace. So ends the story of the Fierce Deity.



I guess that's not what you were expecting, right?

Well, it's more of a fan fiction than a theory, but I was trying to come up with reasons why the Mask is 'Fierce Deity's', why the Mask looks a little like Adult Link's face and why the Majora's Mask wearing kid inside of the Moon says that you'll be the 'ultimate bad guy' when you wear the mask, and this is what I came up with.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:17 AM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalRound View Post
Alright! Well...

...I believe that the 'Fierce Deity' was once one of the commanding soldiers in King Igos du Ikana's army. He looked like Link from Hyrule, and they shared the same name, but his personality was different, but in some ways similar. This Link loved battle and war, and while the Hyrulian Link may like to fight, it's mainly to protect something. The Terminian Link just loved fighting, no matter the cause.

It was through this lust for battle that the Terminian Link got his nickname, the 'Fierce Deity'. One of the finest warriors in all of Termina, his aggressive attitude made him 'Fierce' and his skill in fighting made him like a 'Deity'...none could best him in combat. Until...
Seems possible. I hadn't thought of him being an Ikana, but it could explain his height and why he was in the area.

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Originally Posted by FinalRound View Post
One day, Majora's Mask was released from its prison (As you put it) in the Stone Tower Temple. It immediately proceeded to wreck havoc on Ikana, and so King Igos du Ikana ordered his finest soldier, Link, to command the King's army and destroy it before all of Termina was wiped out.

Against Majora's overwhelming power, most of the regular soldiers were destroyed. The Terminian Link may have been arrogant and a little selfish, but like any good Deity, he cared about his own. He ordered the soldiers to retreat, and challenged Majora's Mask to a one-on-one duel, during which he was beaten and almost killed.
But Majora was never really released, because the Mask Salesman somehow knew how to contain its power, until Skull Kid got it. So it was never really free until right before Link got involved. I don't think this battle could have happened unless it was before Majora's imprisonment, that's why I suggested that the Fierce Deity could have been the one to subdue it for its imprisonment long ago.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:27 AM
FinalRound England FinalRound is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1 View Post
Seems possible. I hadn't thought of him being an Ikana, but it could explain his height and why he was in the area.
Yes, it could also explain why the Stone of Truth/Gossip Stone that tells you about the Mask is also situated in Ikana.

Quote:
But Majora was never really released, because the Mask Salesman somehow knew how to contain its power, until Skull Kid got it. So it was never really free until right before Link got involved. I don't think this battle could have happened unless it was before Majora's imprisonment, that's why I suggested that the Fierce Deity could have been the one to subdue it for its imprisonment long ago.
Yeah...that's where it kinda falls apart in favour of dramatic moments...

Well, perhaps this Link lived even longer ago? Before King Igos du Ikana's reign?
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:30 AM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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Originally Posted by FinalRound View Post
Well, perhaps this Link lived even longer ago? Before King Igos du Ikana's reign?
Yea that's what I'm thinking. I don't think doubles have to necessarily live at the same time, which would explain why so many people in OoT or MM don't seem to have doubles, because they're either already dead or not born yet.

Alternatively it could be a previous Link's double.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:37 AM
FinalRound England FinalRound is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1 View Post
Yea that's what I'm thinking. I don't think doubles have to necessarily live at the same time, which would explain why so many people in OoT or MM don't seem to have doubles, because they're either already dead or not born yet.

Alternatively it could be a previous Link's double.
Indeed. Although, I think that the Terminian Link, having nothing to do with the Triforce and most certainly not being a chosen hero, won't get reincarnated/resurrected. He probably never had any children either.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:43 AM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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Indeed. Although, I think that the Terminian Link, having nothing to do with the Triforce and most certainly not being a chosen hero, won't get reincarnated/resurrected. He probably never had any children either.
Hmm no idea. It seems most, if not all, of the Ikana are dead right now anyway
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:46 AM
GKANG GKANG is a male United Kingdom GKANG is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

i never even noticed that, in that sense.
the fierce deity mask is link's face, that's weird.
it has to be key to something
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:03 AM
FinalRound England FinalRound is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1 View Post
Hmm no idea. It seems most, if not all, of the Ikana are dead right now anyway
Yep, it seems that way.

On a side note, I believe that the Ikana Kingdom is Termina's version of Hyrule's Hyrule Kingdom. Only instead of flourishing, it's destroyed by 'petty battles' as King Ikana says.

Also, there would be another parallel here. Just as the Hyrulian Link is allied with the Hyrule Kingdom, the Terminian Link would be allied with/a part of the Ikana Kingdom.

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Originally Posted by zantdarksage View Post
i never even noticed that, in that sense.
the fierce deity mask is link's face, that's weird.
it has to be key to something
You really never noticed? I thought the similarity was really obvious.

Yes, I think there's definitely some significance there. From the game-play point of view, we could just dismiss it as a way to play as an Adult-Link esque character, who would be otherwise missing from the game if it weren't for Fierce Deity's Mask.

But that way of thinking is boring. I prefer to look at it with an 'In-Universe' style.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:18 AM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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You really never noticed? I thought the similarity was really obvious.
I think he means that he never noticed that about the mask when it was OFF Link's face. Most people see FD Link and notice how it looks like adult like from OoT, and think "oh well the FD mask made him bigger and gave him a cool sword". They don't notice that it has the same face when he's NOT wearing it. The face is part of the mask.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:10 AM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

Well MajorasWrath1, it's a pretty solid theory.
Due to the existence of Triforce blocks, I still tend to think the Tower has something to do with the Triforce or the Goddesses. I may or may not be posting an updated/improved/less cluttered version of my Skull Kid the Messenger theory here soon to give my full opinion.

The origins of Fierce Deity and Majora's Mask will forever be mysterious.
And to Final Round: Keep in mind, Fierce Deity's Name is actually literally translated "Demon God". The American version of his name is much more tame.
Which actually makes me think of something else regarding the first theory here...I think Fierce Deity Mask actually does have evil in it...not just Majora's Mask's idea of evil. It's literally translated as "Demon" and Link can tell it has dark powers when he picks it up.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:43 AM
TheTizzler TheTizzler is a male United States TheTizzler is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

I am one of the people who do not consider the FD mask canon. To me it's just a gimmick to make up for the broken promise of sword beams in OoT.

Quote:
I suddenly realized something: majora's mask looks like Majora's true face, but UPSIDE DOWN. (see the statue of Majora's true face, inverted, Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket). Do you see what this could mean? Just like the tower, upside down, is a prison for the mask, the mask, upside-down, is a prison for Majora's spirit. The master garo says that inverting the tower causes the moon to be "born on the earth". I don't think this is a coincidence--- here's the new theory! The Ikana created Majora's Mask in their hexing rituals and were forced to seal it away, building Stone Tower as its prison. Because the mask caused great destruction on earth, they sealed it away in the heavens--- not just in the heavens, but IN THE MOON. The portal above the tower leads there,
I don't really think the portal above the temple means anything. It's probably just a graphical glitch.

Quote:
and by bringing the moon's portal to the earth by inverting the tower, the doorway to the mask is opened so that it can return to earth. Majora's Mask, enraged at its imprisonment, sought to bring the moon ITSELF to the earth, bringing the two worlds together, its prison and its birthplace, to destroy them both.
This makes sense I suppose.

Quote:
The hand of the stone tower points to the prison of evil, above the world. The great faces of the stone tower represent the giants, the heroes of the Ikana, which is evident in that their greatest tool, the giant's mask, was created in their image. Its great strength used to build the tower, and in their devotion they crafted the giant's face into the tower. So that Majora's Mask could not be brought back down to the earth, the seal of the tower was created so that only sacred light could bring the portal (bring the MOON, as the master garo said), down to earth. That way, only one with a righteous heart, capable of having the light arrows, could do so, so that no evil force could use the mask again.
So does this.

Quote:
Another key--- the fierce deity mask! Majora itself believes this mask to be a "bad guy"--- and why so? Perhaps the fierce deity was the one strong enough to force Majora into its prison, sacrificing himself in the process. His own spirit was imprisoned in a mask with Majora.
Once again, I do not consider the FD mask to be canon, but that really doesn't affect the theory so it doesn't matter.

Quote:
1) Perhaps as was suggested, the Garo, instead of the Ikana, created Stone Tower. Igos du Ikana says to Link that even he is unable to conquer it, implying that it is outside his kingdom's boundaries. The artwork within the Ancient Castle of Ikana is also very differently than the artwork in Stone Tower. For example, there are spiral patterns and skulls along the walls of the throne room, neither of which appear in Stone Tower or its temple. If the Garo were the tribe who created and later imprisoned the mask, this would explain why it's the Master Garo who tells Link how to invert the temple. This doesn't affect the theory directly but more information could help add to it.
I don't think it was the Garo but I doubt it was made by the ikanians (the ones loyal to the throne anyway) because king Ikana's comment about hundreds of his soldiers not being able to topple stone tower make me think he's tryed before.

Quote:
2) What is the significance of the tongue imagery? The great face of the Stone Tower Temple has a prevalent tongue that Link walks up to enter the temple. Likewise, the stone blocks mentioned by Hylian Dan display creatures with a very large tongue that goes down the front of the block and underneath it, where the tongue holds a triforce (it's not licking or covering its groin, despite what was said earlier. It's just holding a triforce. For a better angle, invert the tower and stand next to the scarecrow on the rightmost ledge). What does these creatures, their tongues, and the triforce on their tongues, symbolize? They could hold some sort of key to understanding Stone Tower better.
I don't think the tongue is the most important part of those statues. I think it's the fact that you enter the temple (and the area around the temple) by walking into the mouth of the statue that has some deeper meaning. WAIT A SECOND! I just remembered something from God of war two that put an idea in my brain. In God of war two kronus is said to have eaten all his children in fear of them rising up and overthrowing him. Perhaps Majora is a child of the giants and her being imprisoned in a temple resembling the giants is a nod to that greek legend.

Quote:
I don't believe the theory as it stands now will be 100% correct, like any theory, but I believe it's headed in the right direction and I'm trying to find more concrete evidence for it. I don't think it's good enough just to paste pictures from Stone Tower, decide they mean something, and use that as support. If anyone can find some more lines from the game(s) that support, or refute parts of, this theory, I would appreciate it. Thanks!
I'd boot up my copy and look for some quotes for you now but my friends are coming over and I have to destroy them in super smash bros.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:06 PM
Levyn Sweden Levyn is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

I really like people digging so deep into the history of both Hyrule and Termina! Keep going with that.

On the other hand, did Nintendo really write all this history themselves and did they intend for someone to find it? Or did they just draw pretty pictures? If it is the first one, which I hope, then they are a bunch of worthy of worship developers.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:31 PM
nerpers nerpers is a male United States nerpers is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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Originally Posted by Levyn View Post
I really like people digging so deep into the history of both Hyrule and Termina! Keep going with that.

On the other hand, did Nintendo really write all this history themselves and did they intend for someone to find it? Or did they just draw pretty pictures? If it is the first one, which I hope, then they are a bunch of worthy of worship developers.
Miyamoto: No. He didn't really care that much about the Zelda storyline.
Aonuma: Yes. He has proven that he sincerly cares about the storyline and history. Maybe that's because he doesn't have all the other things that Miyamoto had.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:06 PM
Levyn Sweden Levyn is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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Originally Posted by Prince of Nerps View Post
Miyamoto: No. He didn't really care that much about the Zelda storyline.
Aonuma: Yes. He has provan that he sincerly cares about the storyline and history. Maybe that's because he doesn't have all the other things that Miyamoto had.
Well if that's the case then Aonuma's the one to be grateful to. Hats of to him.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:18 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

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Originally Posted by Ankiseth View Post
I am one of the people who do not consider the FD mask canon. To me it's just a gimmick to make up for the broken promise of sword beams in OoT.
Being in the game, it IS canon. That's not an opinion. But like you said, it's not totally necessary to the theory

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Originally Posted by Ankiseth View Post
I don't really think the portal above the temple means anything. It's probably just a graphical glitch.
Doesn't even matter really, we know the tower has portal(s) to the sky because Link jumps into one to fight Twinmold
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:25 PM
GKANG GKANG is a male United Kingdom GKANG is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1 View Post
I think he means that he never noticed that about the mask when it was OFF Link's face. Most people see FD Link and notice how it looks like adult like from OoT, and think "oh well the FD mask made him bigger and gave him a cool sword". They don't notice that it has the same face when he's NOT wearing it. The face is part of the mask.
kind of, but it was like this.
obviously, i knew even off his face, it looked like adult link
just, it's a mask of link's face. all the other ones are just masks
this, in my opinion, means link was.. linked.. to this mask.
the mask IS of link.

i just never noticed how this was as unusual as it is.
for one, whoever made the mask, how could they base it on link's face?
whoever made it must have known the hero of time.

essentially, it's not just 'that power up mask' i saw it as before.
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:54 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Prison Tower Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by zantdarksage View Post
kind of, but it was like this.
obviously, i knew even off his face, it looked like adult link
just, it's a mask of link's face. all the other ones are just masks
this, in my opinion, means link was.. linked.. to this mask.
the mask IS of link.

i just never noticed how this was as unusual as it is.
for one, whoever made the mask, how could they base it on link's face?
whoever made it must have known the hero of time.

essentially, it's not just 'that power up mask' i saw it as before.
Oh, yea. Well since the other 3 transformation masks are masks from dead individuals, and the transformation cutscene goes the same way, whoever this mask is based off of must almost certainly be dead. So it's not the Hero of Time, and couldn't be anyway because this is on the Child Timeline, and the split occurred before Link entered the Temple of Time, so there was never an adult Hero of Time on this line (yet). That's why we think the mask is based off another Link, from the past, possibly an Ikana, or possible Link's Termina-double.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimgard View Post
Well MajorasWrath1, it's a pretty solid theory.
Due to the existence of Triforce blocks, I still tend to think the Tower has something to do with the Triforce or the Goddesses. I may or may not be posting an updated/improved/less cluttered version of my Skull Kid the Messenger theory here soon to give my full opinion
The triforce is symbolic of the goddesses. The goddesses supplied the light arrows, which are the mechanism for inverting the temple. Notice that the triforce is on the bottom of the block. Once this gift of the goddesses is used to invert the temple, the triforce will be on top as it belongs. Therefore the hero wielding the light arrows will know what they are for.
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