MW1's timeline theory

Well, here is my attempt at a timeline. I know people make threads like this all the time, but that's what this forum is for. I have evidence for the order presented here:

...................Adult-OoT----WW / PH----LoZ / AoL----OoS / OoA----TMC / FS / FSA----ALTTP / LA
Child-OoT ---|
..................MM ---------TP

Point 1) Nintendo stated that OoT predates the first three Zelda games
Point 2) MM is directly after OoT in the child timeline
Point 3) Aonuma's interview, plus hints such as the Hero's Bow, place TP in the child timline after MM
Point 4) Aonuma stated WW is parallel to TP in the adult line (plus other external evidence). The Termina-Tingle reference must involve someone going between the lines, or Termina itself being outside the lines, or something else. If a new timeline can be created by Zelda, a seventh sage or ToW holder must have some degree of control over them. Therefore travel should not be seen as an impossibility.
Point 5) OoX's linked ending and overlapping characters imply they are on the same timeline
Point 6) OoS's map is too similar to LoZ's to be on different lines
Point 7) AoL's map has towns named after OoT's sages. This implies not only an adult timeline, but a placement relatively soon after OoT, or else the towns would be named after more recent sages.
Point 8) FSA is placed on the adult line because it must be on the same line as OoX, because Ganondorf holds the Trident of Power. It cannot predate the split because Ganondorf is said to have been resurrected, whereas in OoT he was unknown
Point 9) TMC is placed with FSA because several things, including the map, links them
Point 10) ALTTP is placed on the adult line because of the Trident of Power. It is placed at the end because when it takes place, the Hylian race is considered ancient, and has been displaced by humans.
Point 11) Twinrova's presence in OoX must be explained through resurrection, but this is not a new concept to the series: Ganondorf has had attempted resurrections, and even the Poe Collector in MM had the ability to resurrect souls (talk to him in the Secret Shrine).

I like it. Can't argue much, except for Twinrova of course. I don't believe they are important enough to Ganondorf to get resurrected, they were a failure.

Also I'd like to add that both Miyamoto and Aonuma have spoken chronologies that are in favor of this timeline:

"Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in--it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time." --- Miyamoto

"The Wind Waker is parallel [to Twilight Princess]. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power..." --- Aonuma

Pretty good timeline, but for starters, most people place the Adult Side on top of their diagram. You might confuse some people by putting it on the bottom.

Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1

Point 4) Aonuma stated WW is parallel to TP in the adult line (plus other external evidence). The Termina-Tingle reference must involve someone going between the lines, or Termina itself being outside the lines, or something else. If a new timeline can be created by Zelda, a seventh sage or ToW holder must have some degree of control over them. Therefore travel should not be seen as an impossibility.

WW parallel to TP, yes
Nintendo making some sort of time hop so that Tingle gets his own story...eh not so much. I can't say for sure why Tingle is mentioned but that is one small thing hinting at a child placement against a wave of hard facts and director quotes placing it in the adult.

Point 6) OoS's map is too similar to LoZ's to be on different

Disagree. Unless you think that Holodrum is Hyrule, then this point really isn't valid. Similar geography doesn't matter in this context because they are different countries. The geography is similar because it was originally going to be a remake but they changed their minds. While it's very likely the two are on the same timeilne, it's not proven. You start the game in Hyrule, and you get sent to Holodrum, so it's obviously a different country. Thus, map similarity is kind a moot point.

Point 7) AoL's map has towns named after OoT's sages. This implies not only an adult timeline, but a placement relatively soon after OoT, or else the towns would be named after more recent sages.

I don't think it has to be "relatively soon" and judging by your timeline, neither do you. Wind Waker takes place hundreds of years after OoT.

Point 9) TMC is placed with FSA because several things, including the map, links them

No question it is related to FSA, but provide some proof for why MC can't go first. Many people still believe it does, so show us why it has to be close to FSA. Geography isn't usually a good enough argument for the MC is first crowd.

Point 11) Twinrova's presence in OoX must be explained through resurrection, but this is not a new concept to the series: Ganondorf has had attempted resurrections, and even the Poe Collector in MM had the ability to resurrect souls (talk to him in the Secret Shrine).

It's possible, but you think it'd be hinted at a little more in the game.

Now, a few questions.
At the end of WW[and thus, PH too] the Triforce is complete, and has been wished upon. It is not shown to split, but rather to disappear. In order for LoZ to happen, it has to be split in 3 pieces, but all in the Castle and owned by the King. How does it get from it's WW state to its LoZ state?
Also, where does LoZ take place? Do Tetra/Link find a new Hyrule? Do the Koroks succeed? Also, where did the Ganon from LoZ come from? In WW he's dead at the bottom of the Ocean.

In the Oracle games, the Triforce is known about, and is sitting comfortably in the Castle once again. If the Oracles come right before MC, why is the Triforce forgotten in MC? It's so forgotten, that in the backstory of MC, the people needed the Light Force and the Picori Sword to fight off evil because the Triforce and Master Sword had been forgotten. How do you explain this?
If MC goes in the adult timeline [which I think it does] it fits much nicer right after PH, where the Triforce is already forgotten.

Pretty much agree with Erimgard here, I even waited for him to reply to save me some typing! *is busy doing research and shouldn't be here*

I only have to add a question:

FSA explains how Ganon got his trident. In OoX he has said trident, wouldn't it be more reasonable for OoX to be after FSA?

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Disagree. Unless you think that Holodrum is Hyrule, then this point really isn't valid. Similar geography doesn't matter in this context because they are different countries. The geography is similar because it was originally going to be a remake but they changed their minds. While it's very likely the two are on the same timeilne, it's not proven. You start the game in Hyrule, and you get sent to Holodrum, so it's obviously a different country. Thus, map similarity is kind a moot point.

O_o...you know what's shocking...it acctually makes sense!
Since we are only told that the events of LoZ take place in "a small kingdom in the Hyrule region".
What if "place were LoZ happens" = Holodrum
I know it's initally because of the remake thing, but still...funny how it could make sense.

Originally Posted by bitterlime

Pretty much agree with Erimgard here, I even waited for him to reply to save me some typing!

Haha, my reputation as a ninja precedes me

O_o...you know what's shocking...it acctually makes sense!
Since we are only told that the events of LoZ take place in "a small kingdom in the Hyrule region"
What if "place were LoZ happens" = Holodrum
I know it's initally because of the remake thing, but still...funny how it could make sense.

That might make sense if LoZ took place after the Oracles, but they obviously don't in this timeline. If LoZ is before them, then LoZ Hyrule or AoL Hyrule has to be the Hyrule where you visit the castle and speak to the Triforce at the start.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

That might make sense if LoZ took place after the Oracles, but they obviously don't in this timeline. If LoZ is before them, then LoZ Hyrule or AoL Hyrule has to be the Hyrule where you visit the castle and speak to the Triforce at the start.

Why would the Oracles have to take place before LoZ? I don't get it. *just got up and is low on active brain cells*

Originally Posted by bitterlime

Pretty much agree with Erimgard here, I even waited for him to reply to save me some typing!

*laughs*

Well, LoZ happens before the Oracles, then the land you would be starting out in would either be LoZ Hyrule, or North Hyrule from AoL. Probably LoZ Hyrule. So how would you get 'sent' there by the Triforce if you already started there?

EDIT:
And if OoX takes place before LoZ, then it would be okay because you would be starting from a different place [aLttP hyrule perhaps] and LoZ Hyrule would be Holodrum after Ganon took over.

^ Why not AoL Hyrule, that seems more reasonable to me seing as the Triforce is there and there's a castle there as well?

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

^ Why not AoL Hyrule, that seems more reasonable to me seing as the Triforce is there and there's a castle there as well?

I never finished AoL *shame* but I'll take your word for it.
I thought there was a quote about rebuilding the LoZ Hyrule though.

^ Ya... so, just for the heck of it, I'm now gonna support the LoZ = Holodrum theory.

In-game evidence > Developer Quotes FTW!

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

^ Ya... so, just for the heck of it, I'm now gonna support the LoZ = Holodrum theory.

In-game evidence > Developer Quotes FTW!

Haha, well...it wouldn't come as a huge shock to me. I think it fits very nicely if you put it like aLttP-OoX-LA-LoZ-AoL, but I don't believe it quite enough to switch my OoX is on the child timeline assumptions.
It could go either way for me.

I suggest that the LoZ map is Holodrum, and the AoL map is Labrynna. Labrynna could be named after the huge labyrinth on maze island (or not, the name doesn't matter I guess). If you look at http://www.zeldaelements.net/other/g...as/hyrule3.jpg, the LoZ and AoL maps are combined into one atlas. Why can't south = Holodrum and north = Labrynna? Sort of how in TP, the kingdom is divideded into Eldin, Lanayru, and Faron.

.
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Originally Posted by Erimgard

Pretty good timeline, but for starters, most people place the Adult Side on top of their diagram. You might confuse some people by putting it on the bottom.

Fixed

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Now, a few questions.
At the end of WW[and thus, PH too] the Triforce is complete, and has been wished upon. It is not shown to split, but rather to disappear. In order for LoZ to happen, it has to be split in 3 pieces, but all in the Castle and owned by the King. How does it get from it's WW state to its LoZ state?

There are plenty of future games which, I guarantee, will involve the Triforce in some way.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Also, where does LoZ take place? Do Tetra/Link find a new Hyrule? Do the Koroks succeed? Also, where did the Ganon from LoZ come from? In WW he's dead at the bottom of the Ocean.

The Koroks may have succeeded, or the flood waters just receded, I don't know. But WW is only about 100~150 years after OoT. Another 100-200 and things are sort of back to normal in some way.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

In the Oracle games, the Triforce is known about, and is sitting comfortably in the Castle once again. If the Oracles come right before MC, why is the Triforce forgotten in MC? It's so forgotten, that in the backstory of MC, the people needed the Light Force and the Picori Sword to fight off evil because the Triforce and Master Sword had been forgotten. How do you explain this?
If MC goes in the adult timeline [which I think it does] it fits much nicer right after PH, where the Triforce is already forgotten.

Again, there are future games to take into consideration. It's actually a weakness of a timeline to place the end of a game with the beginning of another because it's likely that things happened in the middle we haven't seen yet.

Why do you say Wind Waker takes place 100-150 years later? I'm pretty sure King Daphnes states that it's been several centuries.

And I agree there should be some room for more games to be put in, but when making a timeline theory, it's usually best to tie up as many loose ends as possible.
As for LoZ=Holodrum, AoL=Labrynnna
Bitterlime and I have been discussing that very same thing via PM. I think it's very possible that LoZ=Holodrum, but I'm not quite sold on AoL=Labrynna yet

Originally Posted by Erimgard

Why do you say Wind Waker takes place 100-150 years later? I'm pretty sure King Daphnes states that it's been several centuries.

I was going by Aonuma saying it's "a hundred and something years" between OoT and TP, and that "The Wind Waker is parallel". Of course, he could have meant they're in parallel timelines but not simultaneous. So it could be 300, 400 even between OoT and WW by that logic. But since the Hero of Time is mentioned in WW, and not some other Link, it makes sense that WW would be the next game in the line after adult-OoT.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

And I agree there should be some room for more games to be put in, but when making a timeline theory, it's usually best to tie up as many loose ends as possible.

Well, you've said yourself that FSA and ALTTP have similar maps, and OoS and LoZ have similar maps. Then you mentioned that FSA describes how Ganondorf got the Trident. Does he get it IN the game? If not, that doesn't mean FSA is the first trident game. The maps you mentioned make my pairings of LoZ -- OoX, and FSA -- ALTTP, much more likely. As for LA, the instruction manual says it's the Link from ALTTP.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

As for LoZ=Holodrum, AoL=Labrynnna
Bitterlime and I have been discussing that very same thing via PM. I think it's very possible that LoZ=Holodrum, but I'm not quite sold on AoL=Labrynna yet

That's alright, even if Labrynna isn't the AoL area (remember though, Labrynna could be any coastal region within the AoL area, not just the whole area), it could be just outside the map somewhere and still in the same era.

Originally Posted by Erimgard

but I don't believe it quite enough to switch my OoX is on the child timeline assumptions.

But that's very problematic. How can OoX be on the child line if FSA is on the adult line, or if LoZ is on the adult line? All three have to be on the same line, because of the trident.

Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1

Well, you've said yourself that FSA and ALTTP have similar maps, and OoS and LoZ have similar maps. Then you mentioned that FSA describes how Ganondorf got the Trident. Does he get it IN the game? If not, that doesn't mean FSA is the first trident game. The maps you mentioned make my pairings of LoZ -- OoX, and FSA -- ALTTP, much more likely. As for LA, the instruction manual says it's the Link from ALTTP.

Yes he get's the Trident during the game or very shortly before the game starts, since there is a Zuna that you meet that tells you a unfriendly man has passed their village recently. The only person that ever went deep enough into the desert to find the Zuna village is Ganondorf.

Mhhh good though on Labrynna only being a coastal region*goes of to check the maps...again*

Originally Posted by bitterlime

Yes he get's the Trident during the game or very shortly before the game starts, since there is a Zuna that you meet that tells you a unfriendly man has passed their village recently. The only person that ever went deep enough into the desert to find the Zuna village is Ganondorf.

Mhhh good though on Labrynna only being a coastal region*goes of to check the maps...again*

If FSA then preceded both LoZ and OoX, so that TMC/FS/FSA was directly after the WW, it WOULD match the end of PH in which the triforce is forgotten, so that it still isn't known in TMC. However, what about the LoZ-OoS and FSA-ALTTP map similarities? Unless you say that FSA didn't take place in Holodrum, but in another region that later was also played in ALTTP? And TMC and FS both took place in some unknown area? Please clarify.

Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1

If FSA then preceded both LoZ and OoX, so that TMC/FS/FSA was directly after the WW, it WOULD match the end of PH in which the triforce is forgotten, so that it still isn't known in TMC. However, what about the LoZ-OoS and FSA-ALTTP map similarities? Unless you say that FSA didn't take place in Holodrum, but in another region that later was also played in ALTTP? And TMC and FS both took place in some unknown area? Please clarify.

Uhh I dont know if i got you right, but is this what you want to hear from me:

ALttP and FSA take place in the same region (not Holodrum), geography and location names strongly suggest so.

Originally Posted by bitterlime

Uhh I dont know if i got you right, but is this what you want to hear from me:

ALttP and FSA take place in the same region (not Holodrum), geography and location names strongly suggest so.

My point is that ALTTP and FSA must not take place in Holodrum, because if FSA took place in the same region as LoZ, and geography had changed that much, then how could it change BACK to the way it was in LoZ, when OoS comes around?

MajorasWrath1, I think the Trident was made before the split timeline. I believe it to be an ancient, evil artifact.
There is a drawing of a Trident in Arbiter's Grounds in TP...whether it is "the" Trident is debatable, but I think the Trident exists on both timelines.