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  #21 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-23-2008, 07:53 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallville boy View Post
When link was send back to his childhood time by zelda, nobody was entered into the sacred realm, nobody was touch the triforce, in the end, when link go to the garden of hyrule castle, zelda is spyin ganon, like the zelda-link first meeting,in that momment ganon is talking with the hyrule king, ganon is traying to find kokiri emerald ,goron stone and zora stone to try to open the gates of the temple of time to enter in the sacred realm. ganon its begining his plans.

We see the triforce of courage in links hand beacuse some divine prank of the goddesses.(the sages told that in TP) the triforce split in the 3 pieces when link return to his childhood, and goes to zelda link and ganondorf hands.

The door of time never was open from the outside, the door of time opened from inside,at these time nodody has all the 3 spiritual stones and the ocarina of time, when link leave the master sword and get out of the master sword chamber the door of time was closed and the only way to openen again that door is collectin the 3 spiritual stones and play the song of time.
We see him in the master sword chamber when Navi leaves. How are you saying the door was opened, if like you say he was sent back to before he even got the stones?
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Old 03-23-2008, 07:57 PM
Kiamari Australia Kiamari is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

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Originally Posted by Skeletonband View Post
Wow. That actually makes sense. But remember we see Link hopping down from the Pedestal, he just released it and hopped down then Navi flies away. So it couldn't be he has a second thought about the Master Sword.
Just because he had his hands on it doesn't mean that he actually pulled it. I've gone to pick things up, changed my mind after touching them, and backed away before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean about the paradoxial situation, but if nothing is telling him not to pull the sword, then he's going to pull it. There's not going to be a split there.
I'm saying that there is a loop there. There is one point where he's not told to leave it, then he's told to leave it, then not, then is, then not, then is, then not, then is, then not... it's an endless cycle. Therefore, there's a dimension where it has been pulled, and a dimension where it hasn't.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:01 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

I had thought about the Guru-Guru thing as well...and as best as I can tell, "normal" time travel using the Master Sword is linear, and thus events in the past effect the future. However, it is also based on the 12 Monkeys/Back to the Future/Terminator concept that past, present and future all happen at the same time. That explains the Guru-Guru situtation. The whole game, you are traveling on the same timeline. No splits are being made. Every time you put that Master Sword back, you are teleported back in time 7 years to the same timeline. There are various theories about at what exact time you arrive, but I'm under the impression [since it specifically shows you putting the sword back] that you arrive a few minutes after you pulled it. Thus, Ganondorf is currently in the Sacred Realm preparing to make his wish. This is how time traveling occurs throughout the game.

At the end of the game, Zelda uses the Ocarina to send you back, and when you appear, it specifically shows a different cutscene than normal. Instead of the usual blue shield surrounding Link has he slowly takes his hands off the MS...Link isn't touching the MS at all. He even looks a little shocked at this. Because Zelda used a different kind of travel, and not just the Master Sword, he was sent back in a different way. Does the game specifically say this? No, but it makes sense according to some scientist's theories of time travels. He thus appears in an identical universe to his own, but at a time before he met Zelda. This is evidenced by the fact that he has no Goron Bracelet and the fact that Zelda gives the exact same facial expression in the credits as she does when you meet her near the start of the game.
Some may argue "they just got lazy and re-used the old scene", but I then ask, why did they change the scene showing Link travel back in time? Why use a new scene for one, but not the other.
I don't think Ganon ever touched the Triforce in the child timeline. He appears to be quite surprised by his ToP in the execution scene, and in the story they tell about him, they say he tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm...they do not say he succeeded. They make no mention of him touching the Triforce which would be a HUGE event and well noted. Also, Aonuma said that he was merely left alone by Zelda/Link until he did something outrageous. If Link really did get sent back to a time after Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm, then Ganondorf would already have the ToP and thus, Link would not run off to chat with the Princess, or simply leave Ganondorf alone. I don't take director quotes as canon over in-game evidence, but in this case, they seem to be in unison, and that quote was part of the famous Split Timeline Confirmation...arguably the most in-depth explanation of the Zelda Timeline ever.
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  #24 (permalink)   [ ]
Old 03-23-2008, 08:10 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimgard View Post
I had thought about the Guru-Guru thing as well...and as best as I can tell, "normal" time travel using the Master Sword is linear, and thus events in the past effect the future. However, it is also based on the 12 Monkeys/Back to the Future/Terminator concept that past, present and future all happen at the same time. That explains the Guru-Guru situtation. The whole game, you are traveling on the same timeline. No splits are being made. Every time you put that Master Sword back, you are teleported back in time 7 years to the same timeline. There are various theories about at what exact time you arrive, but I'm under the impression [since it specifically shows you putting the sword back] that you arrive a few minutes after you pulled it. Thus, Ganondorf is currently in the Sacred Realm preparing to make his wish. This is how time traveling occurs throughout the game.

At the end of the game, Zelda uses the Ocarina to send you back, and when you appear, it specifically shows a different cutscene than normal. Instead of the usual blue shield surrounding Link has he slowly takes his hands off the MS...Link isn't touching the MS at all. He even looks a little shocked at this. Because Zelda used a different kind of travel, and not just the Master Sword, he was sent back in a different way. Does the game specifically say this? No, but it makes sense according to some scientist's theories of time travels. He thus appears in an identical universe to his own, but at a time before he met Zelda. This is evidenced by the fact that he has no Goron Bracelet and the fact that Zelda gives the exact same facial expression in the credits as she does when you meet her near the start of the game.
Some may argue "they just got lazy and re-used the old scene", but I then ask, why did they change the scene showing Link travel back in time? Why use a new scene for one, but not the other.
I don't think Ganon ever touched the Triforce in the child timeline. He appears to be quite surprised by his ToP in the execution scene, and in the story they tell about him, they say he tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm...they do not say he succeeded. They make no mention of him touching the Triforce which would be a HUGE event and well noted. Also, Aonuma said that he was merely left alone by Zelda/Link until he did something outrageous. If Link really did get sent back to a time after Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm, then Ganondorf would already have the ToP and thus, Link would not run off to chat with the Princess, or simply leave Ganondorf alone. I don't take director quotes as canon over in-game evidence, but in this case, they seem to be in unison, and that quote was part of the famous Split Timeline Confirmation...arguably the most in-depth explanation of the Zelda Timeline ever.
If he was sent back to before he met Zelda, how was the Door of Time open when Navi left, BEFORE this happened?
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:11 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

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Originally Posted by Sparkly Faerie View Post
I'm saying that there is a loop there. There is one point where he's not told to leave it, then he's told to leave it, then not, then is, then not, then is, then not, then is, then not... it's an endless cycle. Therefore, there's a dimension where it has been pulled, and a dimension where it hasn't.
I'm sorry but I don't know what you're talking about
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:13 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

We don't know the Door of Time is open. We don't see it at all. Also, if Zelda can use her powers to send Link back in time without the Master Sword, I'd say she could find a way to make the ToT "ready to receive Link" if you will.
Or he could've played a teleportation song.

Care to address any of my other points?
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:20 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

Wait, what about this? Your goron bracelet point makes this even more important a question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1 View Post
If he was sent back to before he met Zelda, how was the Door of Time open when Navi left, BEFORE this happened?
And yes, the door IS open, because Link walks toward it as the bells toll after Navi flies away. He doesn't warp out.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:21 PM
Origin Netherlands Origin is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

We don't know when the young Zelda ending cutscene takes place, all we know it's after Link opened the Door of Time, which leads me to conclude peace has already returned to Hyrule.

It's probably after Ganondorf is captured, which could be anytime between OoT and MM, but also after MM.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:24 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

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Originally Posted by Daemonius View Post
We don't know when the young Zelda ending cutscene takes place, all we know it's after Link opened the Door of Time, which leads me to conclude peace has already returned to Hyrule.

It's probably after Ganondorf is captured, which could be anytime between OoT and MM, but also after MM.
In MM he looks for Navi who left at the end of OoT. It's clearly before MM. And it can't be after Ganondorf is captured because Ganondorf is captured after the split.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:28 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

Point still remains. Zelda acts like she doesn't know you among other things, so it's obvious you were sent back to before you met her. If she can magically send you back 7 years in time, it's no stretch to say that she could make the Door of Time be open to.
Once again, what about the rest of my post?

EDIT:
I just watched the ending. He does not walk towards the Door of Time.
He watches Navi fly away, and then turns away from the window Navi flew out of. He doesn't walk anywhere, and the Door of Time is not shown...but it's really a moot point since Zelda could've opened it with magic.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:32 PM
Avalon Canada Avalon is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

Alternatively, the door could be remarkably easy to open from the inside.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:33 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

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Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
Alternatively, the door could be remarkably easy to open from the inside.
Haha, true, you never know.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:37 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

OK everyone, I have been wrong about something. The fact that Zelda is spying on ganon, and Link doesn't have his goron bracelet, and Link DOES have the TOC, leads (without typing like 10 paragraphs here) to the eventual conclusion that:

*Link was sent back to before he met Zelda. He appears in the ToT, and it's likely that the current child Link (while running from Kokiri forest to the Castle Town gate, or whatever) is just magically killed or fades away (sad I guess, but you can't have two Links)
*The Triforce did actually split when he landed back, because he has it in the courtyard
*The Door of Time opened, physically or by magic, from the inside to let Link out
*The timeline split occurred earlier than I thought: it occurred before Link got two of the spiritual stones.
*Link is going to have to beat Dodongo's Cavern and Jabu Jabu's belly again

The rest of my theory, about mind travel and the timeline not changing because of Link's ToT travels, Guru Guru and all that, is still totally correct. I was just wrong about when he was sent back to, but it's a significant point.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:39 PM
Hombre de Mundo Sweden Hombre de Mundo is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

Just gonna say this:

There was a theory a long time ago that was pretty much the same as this one. I don't mean to take your credit away, you did some awesome work there, and I salute you for that.

But yeah, my mind was set straight back then and I just don't have any further comments to make right about now.

Props to you, though
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:40 PM
Smallville Boy 69 Mexico Smallville Boy 69 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1 View Post
We see him in the master sword chamber when Navi leaves. How are you saying the door was opened, if like you say he was sent back to before he even got the stones?
He appear automatly in the MS chamber, isn't a thing that he do in the past(he never open the door of time in this time), he appear inside the MS chamber but nobody put the spiritual stones in the pedestal of time, nobody was open the door of time in the past, in the final link open the door of time from inside not from outside.

The true thing is that zelda send back link at the time before zelda and link meeting 4 the first time, before link collect the 3 spiritual stones, and before ganin enter in the sacred realm, in the very ending, (the garden scene) ganin is talkin with the king he start his plans to collect the spiritual stones.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:57 PM
Kokiri Mage7 United_States Kokiri Mage7 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

I was confused for a long time, and I've gotta say this:
My theory is that Link was sent before the Door of Time was actually opened yet after Link is already at Hyrule Castle. My theory states that the Triforce of Courage opened the Door of Time to let Link through, then resealed it.
Now, let's say my theory is correct, there are numerous things that would have still happened and others that would not have happened.
Happen:
1) Great Deku Tree is still dead.
2) Saria gave Link the Fairy Ocarina, yet had not taught him Saria's Song.
3) Link most likely will meet Malon and definitely meets Zelda.
Doesn't:
1) Link did not meet Darunia, Ruto, or Nabooru.
a) Link and Darunia did not become "Sworn Brothers".
b) Link and Ruto did not become engaged. Thank you Nintendo!!!!
c) Nabooru isn't captured by Twinrova.
d) A and B are still possible to occur, but we can't be sure.
2) When Zelda sent Link into the past, he most likely lost his unequipped items. Things like the Bomb Bag, Goron's Bracelet, Fairy Bow, etc. This explains why Link doesn't have them as he goes into Termina. Also, he may have lost his Fairy Slingshot and Fairy Ocarina during the year he was in Hyrule. It makes sense, they're small.
Questions:
1) What did Link's presence change? How is it that King Daphnes trusted Link, a stranger, yet not Zelda, his own daughter?
2) Had Ganondorf already resurrected the Dodongos and cursed Lord Jabu-Jabu?
3) What did the "Hero's Bow" of the Gorons come from? Is it the one from MM?
4) In Termina, there is the Hero's Bow, a legendary weapon used by a Hero. So, if this Hero isn't Link, then who was it? Was the Fierce Deity the Hero who used this bow?
5) Wasn't Zelda's prophecy made impossible when Link was sent to the past? After all, he didn't have Navi, he didn't stop Ganondorf himself, etc. Thus, the prophecy would have to be fulfilled later on by another hero, but apparently not TP Link. He doesn't have a fairy or a pretty, green stone.
6) Unimportant, but how did Link convince Malon to lend him Epona when he left for Navi?

If anybody's got answers to my oddball questions, please fill me in. If not, then oh well.
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:02 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

Kokirimage, why does Zelda act like she's never seen you before in the credits if you're sent back to after you met Zelda?
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:04 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

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Originally Posted by Kokiri Mage7 View Post
My theory is that Link was sent before the Door of Time was actually opened yet after Link is already at Hyrule Castle. My theory states that the Triforce of Courage opened the Door of Time to let Link through, then resealed it.
You mean after he met Zelda but before he beat Dodongo's Cavern? Why is she shown at the time she spied on Ganondorf bowing before her father then? This was the same time she met Link.
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:04 PM
MajorasWrath1 MajorasWrath1 is a male United States MajorasWrath1 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

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Originally Posted by Erimgard View Post
Kokirimage, why does Zelda act like she's never seen you before in the credits if you're sent back to after you met Zelda?
Yep, exactly.
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:35 PM
Kokiri Mage7 United_States Kokiri Mage7 is offline
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Re: Mind Travel Theory: ending of OoT fully explained

No, I meant Hyrule Castle Town, sorry. It's more like before he met Malon, but after arriving at Hyrule Castle Town.
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