Termina Dream Theory

Very good theory. A lot of it really makes sense and gives me something else to think about.

Its either a Dreamlike world or Alternative reality. Good theory.

His shop is the "new mask shop" in town; where was he before that?

hmm...that's very true...if the HMS and the HMS salesman were to be from Termina, then that disproves your whole theory...because you say that Termina is a dream, but the HMS and the HMS salesman are a reality, soo the question is:

how does a dream (happy mask shop salesman) get into the real world (hyrule of OoT)?
simple: it doesnt...and if you stick to the "Termina being a dream", then you imply that Hyrule is also a dream...which we all very well know isn't

Originally Posted by Zora Link

hmm...that's very true...if the HMS and the HMS salesman were to be from Termina, then that disproves your whole theory...because you say that Termina is a dream, but the HMS and the HMS salesman are a reality, soo the question is:

how does a dream (happy mask shop salesman) get into the real world (hyrule of OoT)?
simple: it doesnt...and if you stick to the "Termina being a dream", then you imply that Hyrule is also a dream...which we all very well know isn't

Yes, the presence of the HMS and Skull Kid in Hyrule imply that either:
1) They are from Hyrule, and Termina may or may not be a dream
or
2) Termina is a physical world

If you read my original post, I proposed that Termina was created from the mind of Skull Kid LIKE a dream, and that it is real.

In my later posts I brought up an another alternative, which is that Termina always existed as an independent physical world, but that the game shows it presented through Skull Kid's eyes, which might (or might not) mean that Link saw it this way as well due to some effect of his fall or Majora's power.

As much as I would hate to have my favorite Zelda game be nothing but a dream, a lot of this makes sense. Here's my take:

The Happy Mask Man finds Majora's Mask in the Lost Woods. Skull Kid jacks the mask, and by wearing the mask, his imagination creates this whole new world of Termina. In the Skull Kid's mind, he creates a simple society: Town in the center, four wildly different zones, everything fits nice and neat. But Majora twists this, turns his surreal world darker. Majora places calamities on each area, places its likeness all over the world, causes the Skull Kid's likeness of the moon to start falling.

The Happy Mask Man, fearing what would happen if Majora's power spread to Hyrule, a land that is not imaginary, heads to Termina. Enter Link, etcetera.

Termina is a real world created by Skull Kid, and twisted by Majora. At the end of the game, Termina is free of Majora and a permanent addition to the Zelda world.

Is this basically what you were getting at, MajorasWrath?

Originally Posted by Grevados

As much as I would hate to have my favorite Zelda game be nothing but a dream, a lot of this makes sense. Here's my take:

The Happy Mask Man finds Majora's Mask in the Lost Woods. Skull Kid jacks the mask, and by wearing the mask, his imagination creates this whole new world of Termina. In the Skull Kid's mind, he creates a simple society: Town in the center, four wildly different zones, everything fits nice and neat. But Majora twists this, turns his surreal world darker. Majora places calamities on each area, places its likeness all over the world, causes the Skull Kid's likeness of the moon to start falling.

The Happy Mask Man, fearing what would happen if Majora's power spread to Hyrule, a land that is not imaginary, heads to Termina. Enter Link, etcetera.

Termina is a real world created by Skull Kid, and twisted by Majora. At the end of the game, Termina is free of Majora and a permanent addition to the Zelda world.

Is this basically what you were getting at, MajorasWrath?

So your saying the people in Hyrule can visit them selves if they go to Termina? woot!?

My guess is links gotten stuck in another universe and he probably went in the lost woods or something after ocarina of time to find navi or someone.

Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1

The moon has a face

The moon that we saw in-game is most likely not Termina's real moon. When the giants come, the moon speaks in accord with Majora's Mask's will, and in the final cutscene, the giants do not push the moon back into the sky; they destroy it.

Originally Posted by legend0fzelda

My guess is links gotten stuck in another universe and he probably went in the lost woods or something after ocarina of time to find navi or someone.

It says in the MM booklet that Link was searching for Navi in the Lost Woods. That's how he came to be in Termina in the first place.

Originally Posted by Grevados

As much as I would hate to have my favorite Zelda game be nothing but a dream, a lot of this makes sense. Here's my take:

The Happy Mask Man finds Majora's Mask in the Lost Woods. Skull Kid jacks the mask, and by wearing the mask, his imagination creates this whole new world of Termina. In the Skull Kid's mind, he creates a simple society: Town in the center, four wildly different zones, everything fits nice and neat. But Majora twists this, turns his surreal world darker. Majora places calamities on each area, places its likeness all over the world, causes the Skull Kid's likeness of the moon to start falling.

The Happy Mask Man, fearing what would happen if Majora's power spread to Hyrule, a land that is not imaginary, heads to Termina. Enter Link, etcetera.

Termina is a real world created by Skull Kid, and twisted by Majora. At the end of the game, Termina is free of Majora and a permanent addition to the Zelda world.

Is this basically what you were getting at, MajorasWrath?

Yes pretty much. A few of my other posts here in this thread outline a couple of alternatives with the same theme (I'm not going to insist the original theory I presenting is 100% correct, theories are always in the process of development. That's what turns new theories into good theories. But I do think that I'm on to something).

Originally Posted by Zenith92

So your saying the people in Hyrule can visit them selves if they go to Termina? woot!?

Well, yea, but everyone assumed that already. Termina has the circus man; Hyrule has the windmill man. If one traveled to the other's land, it's obvious they would meet. There are some questions though, that haven't been answered, such as how possible it is to travel between these two worlds, and why when Link, Skull Kid, the mask salesman traveled, they didn't come across their other selves. The thing is, not EVERYONE has a double in the other world. I don't know why. Maybe people in Termina's appearances being so similar to other people in Hyrule's, is just a figment of Skull Kid's or Link's thoughts. I just don't know for sure yet. On page 19 of the Stone Tower of Babel thread, where I present my alternative to it, the Prison Tower Theory, I mentioned my idea that the Fierce Deity may have been Link's own "double".

I Believe that the world of termina is a dream that is all in Link's head. and all the people of termina are the same ones from ocarina of time, setting aside the few new characters. And those people are in his dream because he had met them all in his previous adventure, including the skull kid.

I'd have to say...if I didnt already have an opinion on this, I would have sided with you immediately.

You have a strong theory here, but I already believe Termina is a parallel universe, and nothing is going to change that(for the moment)

I believe that for a number of reasons, but I think it is a possibility that Termina was a dream.
Possible...but not likely

I think that is a pretty solid theory but it does have it's holes like stated above and I do believe your "Last thoughts" on it were more believable, but I still think it's likely something else

Originally Posted by God of Twilight

I'd have to say...if I didnt already have an opinion on this, I would have sided with you immediately.

You have a strong theory here, but I already believe Termina is a parallel universe, and nothing is going to change that(for the moment)

I believe that for a number of reasons, but I think it is a possibility that Termina was a dream.
Possible...but not likely

Well I stated above that it was manifested as a physical world, not that it was entirely a dream. Threads grow pretty fast but to reiterate, there are several possibilities here, including:

Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1

another alternative, which is that Termina always existed as an independent physical world, but that the game shows it presented through Skull Kid's eyes, which might (or might not) mean that Link saw it this way as well due to some effect of his fall or Majora's power.

Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1

Well I stated above that it was manifested as a physical world, not that it was entirely a dream. Threads grow pretty fast but to reiterate, there are several possibilities here, including:

Well I highly doubt the latter possibility.
I didnt want to get deep into my beliefs, but....


There are many sources, mostly from Nintendo itself, stating that Termina is a parallel world. They say nothing about it being a "manifestation" of the Skull Kid's mind, and make no mention of a dream.

If what you're saying was true, Nintendo would have tried to make that obvious somehow. Like, in LA, Koholint probably was a dream, and Nintendo made that obvious by making the Wind Fish SAY it.

Also, you mention that Termina is dreamlike, which I suppose it is. But, how can we judge what looks normal in another world? Their culture is completely different from Hyrule's, and therefore things will naturally look and feel different.

You also wonder why the Skull Kid is famous, and how he's friends with the Giants? Well, according to a story told within the game, the Skull Kid MIGHT have originally come from Hyrule. During this time, the Giants lived among the people of Termina. All people during this time were able to interact with the Giants, and the Skull Kid just happened to befriend them.
However, when the Giants departed for their "Giant's Realm", the Skull Kid misunderstood, and thought they were abandoning him. Thus, he went on a rage, causing mischief all over Termina, explaning how he became "famous".

It's a well thought out theory, but i don't think termina is a 'dream world'.

The only place that is constructed by a characters thoughts in MM is inside the Moon. It is clearly created from the Skull Kids thoughts; 4 children running around having fun (4 Giants) and 1 sitting down who is lonely (Skull Kid), and all the children have the HMS head (though we can't see face).

dude i never thought of that and i agree it would seem that way

That is a very good theory.

If we were to go with the theory as a possibility, I'd prefer to say that Termina is actually physically real, just its construction is a result of the warped mind of the Skull Kid and the magic of Majora's Mask. Like the Warp in the Warhammer universe, or the Realm of Madness in Oblivion. This would avoid "then Link woke up and it was all a dream".

I however don't agree with this theory but it's definitely a valid interpretation of some of the ideas present in the game.

Originally Posted by MajorasWrath1

I present to you a novel and far-reaching theory on the existence of Termina.

Proposal:

Termina was created from the mind of Skull Kid, in a way similar to Koholint Island being a dream of the Wind Fish. I believe there are hints that all point to this; while Termina is real, its existence is like the permanence of dreams floating in a child's mind.

Evidence:

Termina is notable for its surreal, often dreamlike, interpretations of innocuous things, such as the unrealistic and colorful design of the Astral Observatory, Southern Swamp and Deku Palace, Great Fairy's Sword, Music Box House, etc. The moon has a face, anthropomorphized like a child's view of the world in general. Small children tend to draw people as circular faces sprouting two arms and two legs, and this is how the giants appear.

Skull Kid, while being an unimportant and little-known imp of the forest, is somehow:
1) best friends with the four creators of the world
2) famous in Termina for no obvious reason (he is known by name, for example, to Koume and Kotake)
3) the owner of a lair situated not only underneath the monument central to the whole world of Termina, but the Clock Tower's layout is literally a path TO his lair, as if his lair precedes the creation of the world and its locale was selected to suit his needs

Dreams tend to include people you know in real life, while often portraying them doing odd or different things than they do in real life. In Termina, all of the people of Hyrule are portrayed like this.

Shy or unpopular children can be obsessed with people's impressions of them. They perform bids for attention, and want to feel accepted. Majora's Mask took advantage of these feelings of Skull Kid in order to use him, but indeed the fact that he is friends with the giants themselves, as well as known all over Termina, is exactly what you'd expect from the dream of a child who wishes to be known and loved.

I look forward to hearing any thoughts on the matter.

Edit: It's perhaps more likely that Termina is real but the game is an interpretation of events as seen through the childlike mind of Skull Kid: see posts below

I didn't know that the Skull Kid had left the lost woods in OoT, so I don't think it is likely it's a dream, how could he meet all those people if he doesn't leave the lost woods?

You should read the Zelda Encyclopedia at The Legend of Zelda