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Old 02-28-2008, 02:57 PM
baneofganon United_States baneofganon is offline
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error in the ZU timeline

In the ZU timeline, they say that A Link to the Past comes after Windwaker. Their only reason is that Ganondorf is Ganon (ganondorf's moblin-like state) in ALttP. This is simply not true however.

If you will note, in mid ALttP, it is shown that if you enter the Dark Realm without the Moon's Pearl, you will be turned into the image of your personality. Ganon is no exception. Since Link had the Moon's Pearl in the final battle, not Ganon, Ganon should have been in his dark realm form. Through simple deduction, it is proven that Ganon IS Ganondorf's dark realm state.

And not only is there no proof that ALttP is after, but there is reasonable doubt against it, as the ending cutscene of WW makes it pretty clear that that is the end of hyrule. not of zelda in general, as PH proved, but of the ancient land of hyrule. king daphnes resigned himself to the fact that the new generation of hylians would be that of the sea, of the islands, not of the land in which the zoras once lived.

which brings me to another interesting fact-there are zoras pre-windwaker, but in windwaker, the zoras have evolved into the rito. I find it hard to believe that they could un-evolve back into the zora after the sea was supposedly drained.

that's all I have. if anyone agrees or disagrees, please feel free to interject your opinion.
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:09 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by baneofganon View Post
In the ZU timeline, they say that A Link to the Past comes after Windwaker. Their only reason is that Ganondorf is Ganon (ganondorf's moblin-like state) in ALttP. This is simply not true however.
As far as I know, the new ZU Timeline hasn't been posted. I could be wrong, but if the new one isn't up yet, then the one that is up now is very old and is no longer credible. A new one has already been made and I believe is scheduled to be put up when the fund raising is over

Quote:
If you will note, in mid ALttP, it is shown that if you enter the Dark Realm without the Moon's Pearl, you will be turned into the image of your personality. Ganon is no exception. Since Link had the Moon's Pearl in the final battle, not Ganon, Ganon should have been in his dark realm form. Through simple deduction, it is proven that Ganon IS Ganondorf's dark realm state.
As shown by OoT, Ganondorf can become Ganon just by using the Triforce of Power.
As shown by FSA Ganondorf can become Ganon just by using the Trident of Power.
Ganon is merely a different form of Ganondorf. It's my personal belief that since Ganon had all the power of the Triforce in aLttP he could keep whatever form he wanted, but he already was in his Ganon form thanks to getting the Trident in FSA.

Quote:
And not only is there no proof that ALttP is after, but there is reasonable doubt against it, as the ending cutscene of WW makes it pretty clear that that is the end of hyrule. not of zelda in general, as PH proved, but of the ancient land of hyrule. king daphnes resigned himself to the fact that the new generation of hylians would be that of the sea, of the islands, not of the land in which the zoras once lived.
Eh, there are theories on this, but I'm not gonna get into it right now.

Quote:
which brings me to another interesting fact-there are zoras pre-windwaker, but in windwaker, the zoras have evolved into the rito. I find it hard to believe that they could un-evolve back into the zora after the sea was supposedly drained.
I've been told that in PH there are still Zoras or a similar creature called Zolas. I haven't played it so I can't confirm, but it appears there are two different species. The ones that evolved into Ritos, and the ones that became hostile and stayed in the water [previously the Zoras were friends with the Hylians]
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:10 PM
Hombre de Mundo Sweden Hombre de Mundo is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

The official ZU Timeline is old and hasn't been remade. It will be once the site gets its new layout and all.

Ganon is not Ganondorf's Dark World form. I prove this by simply pointing to LoZ, OoX and FSA where Blue Ganon also appeared. Outside the Dark World, I might add.

ALttP after tWW makes sense, but only if you place the FS Saga in between them, like so:

tWW-PH---tMC-FS-FSA---ALttP

The connection FSA---ALttP is pretty obvious, it's the placement of tMC that is more of a controversial issue. I say the proof for a past-WW placement add up, but others don't think so. Both tMC and FSA being on islands - though - is a pretty god argument for a post-WW placements. That'd also make sense for LA, since Hyrule would be surrounded by water.

EDIT: Beaten to it.
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:11 PM
JIMMER45KHB United_States JIMMER45KHB is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Makes since to me but here are the facts
Ganon

Also known as the King of Evil, Ganon is the epitome of anger, hate and envy. Ganon's life began as a human named Ganondorf, but his heart was so vile that eventually he could no longer hide the ugliness which he held inside. Ganon was banished to the Dark World by Link and the Seven Sages, but his hunger for power and domination proved to be more powerful than the seal on his solitary cell. Seeking to defile the power of the Triforce, Ganon was able to break free on numerous occasions. Luckily, Link and the Seven Sages were able to repel his advances each time. Still, the threat of Ganon's return always lingers just below the surface of Hyrule's peaceful landscape.
The Legend of Zelda , A Link to the Past , Ocarina of Time , Oracle of Ages , Oracle of Seasons , Four Swords Adventures

Ganondorf

Ganondorf, the scourge of Hyrule and King of the Gerudo Thieves, was the dark-hearted human who eventually transformed into Ganon, King of Evil. Ganondorf cared only for himself, which was evident to anyone who dared to peer into his sunken eyes.
Ocarina of Time , Wind Waker
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:19 PM
Hombre de Mundo Sweden Hombre de Mundo is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

^I wouldn't say that anything from the official Zelda site is fact, seeing as they have some errors here and there. Not saying you're wrong, but the official Zelda site is not canon, just wanted to say that
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:40 PM
Sam United Kingdom Sam is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Bah, no Zelda timeline is fact. That is a fact.

Personally, I would always put OoT at the beggining (though maybe making an exeption for the Minish Cap), and Windwaker always at the end (well, preceded of course by PH, but by Windwaker I mean the Windwaker story ark)

ALttP woul fall somwhere in the middle, before the great flood but after the first sealing of Ganon/dorf.

Here is a question- do you think that Miyamoto actually does have a timeline. I've heard in interviews that he takes the matter of the timeline very seriously, and I can imagine he could well have make a fairly in depth timeline with events like the sealing of Ganon and the Great flood and based the games vaugly around it, but I doubt he would take things like Tingle and moblins into account, so I think that people basing entire timelines around little things like that are going to wind up dissapointed.
Last Edited by Sam; 02-28-2008 at 04:03 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:43 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

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Originally Posted by Sam250 View Post
Here is a question- do you think that Miyamoto actually does have a timeline.
Supposedly yes. Can't remember if it was him or Eiji, but one of them claims to have a text document that links all the games together.
Might've just said that as a crowd pleaser though.
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:50 PM
baneofganon United_States baneofganon is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo View Post
I prove this by simply pointing to LoZ, OoX and FSA where Blue Ganon also appeared. Outside the Dark World, I might add.
Yes and no.

You see, the room or rites IS in the Dark World, else havoc would also be reaped upon lands surrounding the room of rites. OoX could perhaps take place in both realms, but we can't be sure.

I can't speak for FSA, as you are completely right there, but some argue if MC/FS/FSA are even a part of the normal timeline as there is no appearance of the master sword, nor are there any significant references to any games other than the three.

Also, PH was a different game from the rest. Things that appear in PH might differ from the normal timeline simply because it is not a serious game. It was rather simple to beat, and I question the signifigance nintendo saw in the game.

And finally, LoZ was prior to the introduction of Ganondorf in the series, so I question whether nintendo even saw the rest of the series coming when they put that game out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimgard View Post
Supposedly yes. Can't remember if it was him or Eiji, but one of them claims to have a text document that links all the games together.
Might've just said that as a crowd pleaser though.
No, actually, they said that they would reveal more of the timeline as they released zelda games, so they knew that the crowd would be very UNPLEASED to find that it had all been a gimmick.

But yes, at E3 a nintendo representative confirmed an actual timeline.
Last Edited by Jehanne; 02-29-2008 at 07:28 PM. Reason: Merged; please don't double post Reply With Quote
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:54 PM
JIMMER45KHB United_States JIMMER45KHB is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo View Post
^I wouldn't say that anything from the official Zelda site is fact, seeing as they have some errors here and there. Not saying you're wrong, but the official Zelda site is not canon, just wanted to say that
No problem it just if you read it it said that ganon is after Ganondorf so that means that Ganondorf was in Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker but The Wind Waker game happened way after all the games after link is long dead if I had to put them in order it would go like this
1.The Legend of Zelda
2.A Link to the Past and A Link to the Past/Four Swords
3.The Adventure of Link
4.Link's Awakening
5.Ocarina of Time
6.Majora's Mask
7.Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons
8.The Minish Cap
9.THE LEGEND OF ZELDA:TWILIGHT PRINCESS
10.The Wind Waker
11.THE LEGEND OF ZELDAHANTOM HOURGLASS
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:54 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by baneofganon View Post
I can't speak for FSA, as you are completely right there, but some argue if MC/FS/FSA are even a part of the normal timeline as there is no appearance of the master sword, nor are there any significant references to any games other than the three.
Um, what about the fact that Ganon is sealed inside the Four Sword at the end of FSA and at the start of aLttP [gba version] nintendo specifically added an extra temple with the Four Sword inside of it, shattered, to indicated Ganon had escaped?

Quote:
And finally, LoZ was prior to the introduction of Ganondorf in the series, so I question whether nintendo even saw the rest of the series coming when they put that game out.
No, they hadn't thought of Ganondorf in human form yet, but it would be stupid to make games after LoZ that say that Ganondorf only becomes Ganon in the dark world...when that doesn't happen in the very first game. That would be a ridiculous contradiction.
There's no evidence that Dark World=Ganon. There's a lot of evidence against it.
The very first time he ever turns into Ganon is in OoT, and he's in the normal world when he does it. And as we said before, the reason he's Ganon in aLttP is because the Trident turned him into Ganon in FSA.
What about TP where he has the ability to switch back and forth between a pig and a human?

Quote:
No, actually, they said that they would reveal more of the timeline as they released zelda games, so they knew that the crowd would be very UNPLEASED to find that it had all been a gimmick.

But yes, at E3 a nintendo representative confirmed an actual timeline.
That's not the quote I'm talking about. I've actually seen a quote where one of them claimed to have a text document with the timeline on in. Not sure where to find it, but I'm sure someone around here has a link to it.
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Last Edited by Erimgard; 02-28-2008 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:59 PM
Sam United Kingdom Sam is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by baneofganon View Post
Also, PH was a different game from the rest. Things that appear in PH might differ from the normal timeline simply because it is not a serious game. It was rather simple to beat, and I question the signifigance nintendo saw in the game.
I'm sorry, but you simply can't question a games canonity (is that a word?) by how simple or easy it is- that like saying that AoL won't fit into the timelne because some people don't like it. Who is to say that it is not 'serious'?
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Old 02-28-2008, 04:02 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam250 View Post
Personally, I would always put OoC at the beggining
???
do you mean OoT?
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Old 02-28-2008, 04:04 PM
Sam United Kingdom Sam is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

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Originally Posted by Erimgard View Post
???
do you mean OoT?
Oh, crap, of course. Fixed, thanks.
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:46 PM
Hombre de Mundo Sweden Hombre de Mundo is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimgard View Post
The very first time he ever turns into Ganon is in OoT, and he's in the normal world when he does it. And as we said before, the reason he's Ganon in aLttP is because the Trident turned him into Ganon in FSA.
What about TP where he has the ability to switch back and forth between a pig and a human?
Ya, but that wasn't Blue Ganon, though.


Quote:
That's not the quote I'm talking about. I've actually seen a quote where one of them claimed to have a text document with the timeline on in.
Commonly reffered to as the Master Document around here, if I may add

JIMMER45KHB: Have you considered the Split Timeline?


And finally, the reason PH canonity can be questioned is becauseit didn't take place in "their [Link & Tetra's] world"
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:50 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo
Ya, but that wasn't Blue Ganon, though
Yeah, but the maker of the thread never said that Blue Ganon was his Dark Realm form...he just said Ganon.
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:58 PM
JIMMER45KHB United_States JIMMER45KHB is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

@Hombre de Mundo: Not much I just love the games and that is all I fell I need to know
Sorry T_T
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:58 PM
Hombre de Mundo Sweden Hombre de Mundo is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

^ Psh! Quit your apologizing However, if you want to make a credible theory, you'll have to go pretty deep analyzing. Then again, you're not forced to make a theory in the first place, hanging around here listening to what people think is pretty cool too. I did that for like a year or two.

Erimgard: But Blue Ganon and (what shall we call him...) Regular Ganon (?) are very different. Blue Ganon has much more persona, is able to do more stuff and he also talks. Regular Ganon is just a beast who fights hard and roars, basically. But I'll never forget the first time I battled Ganon in OoT. I was awestruck.
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:07 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Oh I agree wholeheartedly Hombre. I think Ganon is just Ganondorf overcome by the power of the ToP and turned into the evil beast that his heart reflects.
Blue Ganon is Ganondorf plus the power of the Trident.
But the maker of this thread doesn't seem to see a difference.
Neither one appears to be a product of the Sacred/Dark Realm
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:33 PM
Hombre de Mundo Sweden Hombre de Mundo is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

^ But you were using Regular Ganon as proof that Blue Ganon has nothing to do with the Dark World, which I don't think you should, since they're so different, and therefore I had to launch an assault on you

I expect you to do the same thing for me, should I screw up.
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Old 02-28-2008, 07:24 PM
Erimgard Erimgard is a male Mexico Erimgard is offline
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Re: error in the ZU timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo View Post
^ But you were using Regular Ganon as proof that Blue Ganon has nothing to do with the Dark World, which I don't think you should, since they're so different, and therefore I had to launch an assault on you

I expect you to do the same thing for me, should I screw up.
Eh, what I was trying to do was list each Ganondorf-Ganon transformation and prove that individually that they had nothing to do with the Sacred Realm

EDIT:
Thanks to text dumps, I've found something out. It's not the fact that it's the Sacred Realm that makes you change form, it's the Triforce itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Pearl
You found the Moon Pearl!
This protects The Hero from
the transforming effects of
the Golden Power.
Thus, since Ganon himself controls the Golden Power/Triforce, obviously the Sacred Realm isn't what changed him into Ganon.
Like I said before, he became blue Ganon by getting the Trident. In aLttP he's in charge of the Triforce and the Sacred Realm, not the other way around. It can't change him, he changes it.
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Last Edited by Erimgard; 02-28-2008 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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