Mysteries ahead: Arbiters Ground

So the Arbiters Ground is a cool place. Recently, Raian told us it wasn't even a prison, but an execution site. But also, as I'm sure many of you know, there are some rather interesting carvings in there as well. Wait, what now?

Yeah, read ahead! I've been discussing this a lot with bitterlime and humulos in another thread (derailed) and so we decided to move it here. I'll post a summary of our thoughts as well as some pictures.

Enjoy theorizing!



The Trident


humulos:
I got that from Raian's thread. It is apparently a drawing in the arbiters ground, the figures on the right *may* be Twinrova, or Stallord as someone else suggested. As for me, it is too vague to pass judgement. The symbol in the middle though is definitely a Trident.

Hombre:
Granted, it could just be an easter egg. But it could also mean the Trident was made before OoT even. If so, it's totally possible for Ganondorf to find it in the Child Timeline, meaning TP---LoZ gets more support (since I insist that Trident = Blue Ganon), which leaves me happy, as I support said placement.


Link and Ganon?


(Thanks to Eralk Fang for the pic)

The questions here are: Are these really Link and Ganon? Is this also just an easter egg or does it mean something?

bitterlime:
The left figure has a deku shield and is left handed, which makes it more plausible that it is Young Link.
And Arbitersground allready exsists shortly after OoT, because that's when Ganondorfs execution happens. That being said, carvings can be added at any time.

Hombre:
See how the right figure has these things that look like tridents, or just really big claws? Ganon in OoT had the same kind of weapons, swords that sort of looked like tridents.



The small legs compared to the rest of the body also point towards Ganon, rather than Stallord (although we don't know what his legs look like, if he has any at all). At a first glimpse, the figure resembles a bear, I think. And I believe Ganon resembles a bear moreso than Stallord.

It'd make sense for the left figure to be Young Link, and not Adult Link. Since the only Link existing at that time was young Link... with a Deku Shield... yeah, you do the math

humulos:
There obviously was a great battle between Ganon and the forces of Hyrule, as stated in the Stage's Flashback. Link, having battled Ganon before would have most likely battled him again at the time of the war. The kid did have the ToC on his side, so he would have likely been a formidable foe, especially since Ganon seemed not to know about his ToP during the war.

My point, Link of OoT fought Ganon in both timelines.

bitterlime:
What kinda ruins your assumption, humulos, is that Ganondorf shows zero reaction to Link in TP. If he has allready battled a former Link he would show some reaction to Link like he did in WW, wouldn't he?

Hombre:
Yeah, I'd rather go with my idea But we could also assume that OoT Link didn't wear his green outfit when battling Ganondorf. He did have armor and stuff as the Hero's Shade anyway (assuming we can all agree on that Hero's Shade is OoT Link). But as said, I'd rather go with my idea. Oh, and another thing... As far as we're concerned, Ganon didn't exist in the Child Timeline until you fight him in TP, so why would the picture show Ganon if Link battled Ganondorf?

humulos:
I'd like a say on Link's shield. Look:
Kokiri symbol:
Sheikah symbol:
Comparing both with the shield, I would say the Shield closer resembles the Sheikah rather than the Deku/Kokiri.

bitterlime:
If it is just some random symbol on it we can dissmiss that whole carving all together. Because if it's not the deku symbol we have no reason to assume that it's Link that is depicted.

Hombre:
If the other bieng is Ganon (from OoT), then it must be Link. Also, the figure is left handed, seeing as he weilds the shield with his right hand. But here's a thing I found in another thread:

Originally Posted by Master of ALttP

Just in case nobody's said this yet, there are multiple appearances of this image throughout the Arbiter's Grounds, and they don't all face the same way. Some have the man holding the shield in his right hand, others have him holding it in his left hand.

Can anyone confirm this?

And another thing I'm curious about is... why doesn't this guy to the left wield a sword or something?

bitterlime:
No sword....mhhh...remember when you were swordless in the final battle of OoT? Could be a good explanation.

Hombre:
Yeah I thought about that too. Seems like a bad way to tell the story of a battle, but... it's possible, I guess.

But what about the shield then?. Well... For starters, this whole carving isn't very well made. Second, it's very possible that the one who carved this did it from memory, not directly watching the Kokiri symbol and therefore screwed up a little. Maybe.

humulos:
So much discussion, why is that drawing so very vague!

bitterlime:
Btw Link seems to have three "towers" above him, while Ganon is crowned by three pillars of smoke or something like that. Any ideas?

The pillars of smoke seems to come out of very tiny houses, which would make a good contrast if those things above Link are towers. I guess it would represent wealth and destruction or something. Oh, here's a pic:


Hombre:
Yeah, those seem like houses and towers alright. Two things that I notice:
No fire from the houses, just smoke. Huh. And are there people on the towers? Some symbolism of sages, perhaps?

Okay, so to I think we should keep discussing this and stop harrassing Majoraman's thread

Lets'a go!

Wow, good observations, i agree with many of the points here for example the first picture looks rather close to the Trident, and Twinrova on the right. Ganondorf's mothers conection maybe?
Thanks for sharing this with us

So, your telling us that this place was made in honor of the HoT and they also maked it to keep the portal to the TR and also to make executions of the most fearsome living.

You forgot one carving.

This may sound far-fetched, but I swear to the three goddesses there IS a guy holding an houglass over his head...the Phantom hourglass mabye? hur hur hur, I doubt it but hey...

Personally, I just think it is a rather nifty easter egg they have stuck in htere, but think whatever you want

^ If you have a picture of teh hourglass, that'd be helpful. And yes, we could just discard these as easter eggs... but what's the fun in that? They certainly don't ruin anything the way Mario paintings do, so...

Originally Posted by Ganon001

So, your telling us that this place was made in honor of the HoT and they also maked it to keep the portal to the TR and also to make executions of the most fearsome living.

I don't think the place itself has any connection to the Hero of Time per say, but it may have been a place for recording historical events, which is why we see the vague carvings. Had the Arbiter's Grounf been built in honor of the Hero of Time, then... they did a really sucky job

My opinion on

The trident: I don't believe it's an easter egg, so that means it most have been created before the split and as you said that means that Ganondorf could easily have found it so there is now more proof for a TP - LoZ placement. That is the most debatable part of my timeline so that is great news!

Link and Ganon: As humulos said this could mean that they fought in both timelines but i don't think so, this theory requires a lot assumption so i think it's just an easter egg. I'm not quite sure about this one yet...

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

^ If you have a picture of teh hourglass, that'd be helpful. And yes, we could just discard these as easter eggs... but what's the fun in that?

har har, that WOULD help, but if you want to see them, they are in the room with the giant scales, located near the exit.

True, no fun in easter eggs is there ;D

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

I don't think the place itself has any connection to the Hero of Time per say, but it may have been a place for recording historical events, which is why we see the vague carvings. Had the Arbiter's Grounf been built in honor of the Hero of Time, then... they did a really sucky job

This is very interesting stuff but if the abriters ground was a place for recording historical events i think there will be more evidence to show it than vague drawings around the place.... but still interesting none the less.

^True. But then I'm sure there are countless of symbols and writing we can't even undertsand that may serve as recordings. Not sure, though.

Originally Posted by Hugh O

Link and Ganon: As humulos said this could mean that they fought in both timelines but i don't think so, this theory requires a lot assumption so i think it's just an easter egg. I'm not quite sure about this one yet...

There's no reason why it couldn't be the final battle from OoT. I mean, it's pretty easy for Link to pass the story on. There's a legendary hero in TP, after all, could as well be the HoT, except he wasn't given that title for some reason, or people just didn't bother using it.

Originally Posted by lavvy

har har, that WOULD help, but if you want to see them, they are in the room with the giant scales, located near the exit.

All my wii data was literally destroyed when my system's main core melted a while ago
bitterlime? *puppy eyes*

Originally Posted by lavvy

You forgot one carving.

This may sound far-fetched, but I swear to the three goddesses there IS a guy holding an houglass over his head...the Phantom hourglass mabye? hur hur hur, I doubt it but hey...

Personally, I just think it is a rather nifty easter egg they have stuck in htere, but think whatever you want

LOL that would turn the Zelda world upside down!
Imagine if it was confirmed to be the PH.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

^True. But then I'm sure there are countless of symbols and writing we can't even undertsand that may serve as recordings. Not sure, though.There's no reason why it couldn't be the final battle from OoT. I mean, it's pretty easy for Link to pass the story on. There's a legendary hero in TP, after all, could as well be the HoT, except he wasn't given that title for some reason, or people just didn't bother using it.


All my wii data was literally destroyed when my system's main core melted a while ago
bitterlime? *puppy eyes*

Whoa this thread moves fast!:O
Seems like this is going to be the third time I'm going to cross the whole gerudo desert to get to that darned dungeon!T_T
Were is that phantom hourglass picture supposed to be? Room with giant scales, eh? Could someone be more precise please?

Btw: the third picture isn't showing up for me (the towers and the smoke pillars)...

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

^True. But then I'm sure there are countless of symbols and writing we can't even undertsand that may serve as recordings. Not sure, though.There's no reason why it couldn't be the final battle from OoT. I mean, it's pretty easy for Link to pass the story on. There's a legendary hero in TP, after all, could as well be the HoT, except he wasn't given that title for some reason, or people just didn't bother using it.

Yes it could be the final battle from OOT but then you would have to assume that the drawing is about the part of the fight when Link got the MS knocked out of his hand. Then you would have to assume the HoT is the legendary hero in TP. Then you would have to assume that he passed his story on. To much assumption i think, it's safer to say it's an Easter Egg.

The pictures are probably just easter eggs, but as long as folks are speculating, maybe they were prophecies that the sages had seen. After all, without knowing what Ganon was up to, they were essentially executing him on the word of a little boy in a green outfit.

Originally Posted by langford

The pictures are probably just easter eggs, but as long as folks are speculating, maybe they were prophecies that the sages had seen. After all, without knowing what Ganon was up to, they were essentially executing him on the word of a little boy in a green outfit.

Thats a good point. The wall carvings could deffinatly be Prophacies much like the Aztecs did.
good assumption

Originally Posted by Hugh O

Yes it could be the final battle from OOT but then you would have to assume that the drawing is about the part of the fight when Link got the MS knocked out of his hand. Then you would have to assume the HoT is the legendary hero in TP. Then you would have to assume that he passed his story on. To much assumption i think, it's safer to say it's an Easter Egg.

Same thought here... There is a lot of assumption going on and i think there needs to be more clues around rather than drawings if the theory is going to go any further.

^ About the Legendary hero being the Hero of Time:
We know the legendary hero was a Link prior to TP. It also seems the Hero's Shade is the HoT. And las, but not least, we knew Link contacted Zelda in the end of OoT. The scenario of him telling his story to Zelda and the king is extremely probable.

Originally Posted by langford

they were essentially executing him on the word of a little boy in a green outfit.

a little boy who just happened to carry the ToC, mind you

Originally Posted by langford

The pictures are probably just easter eggs, but as long as folks are speculating, maybe they were prophecies that the sages had seen. After all, without knowing what Ganon was up to, they were essentially executing him on the word of a little boy in a green outfit.

Not really, i believe that Aonuma once said in an interview that Ganondorf did "something outrageous" and then the sages executed him. Link probably told Zelda and the sages about what Ganondorf did in the AT and then the sages watched Ganondorf's every move until they saw him do "something outrageous". Sorry i don't have the quote right now.

If the PH was drawn in there then it must have been a prophecy that the sages had seen because there is no way PH could be in the CT since it has extremely obvious connections with tWW which is obvioulsy in the AT.

Originally Posted by Hugh O

Not really, i believe that Aonuma once said in an interview that Ganondorf did "something outrageous" and then the sages executed him. Link probably told Zelda and the sages about what Ganondorf did in the AT and then the sages watched Ganondorf's every move until they saw him do "something outrageous". Sorry i don't have the quote right now.

If the PH was drawn in there then it must have been a prophecy that the sages had seen because there is no way PH could be in the CT since it has extremely obvious connections with tWW which is obvioulsy in the AT.

But outrageous enough to kill him with a magic sword over a magic mirror in the hopes of making his soul a different world's problem? What could possibly qualify as outrageous enough, other than the events of the other timeline?

Originally Posted by langford

But outrageous enough to kill him with a magic sword over a magic mirror in the hopes of making his soul a different world's problem? What could possibly qualify as outrageous enough, other than the events of the other timeline?

Many he tried to do the exact same thing that he did in the AT but this time the sages captured him before he had the ToP.

^ About the Legendary hero being the Hero of Time:
We know the legendary hero was a Link prior to TP. It also seems the Hero's Shade is the HoT. And las, but not least, we knew Link contacted Zelda in the end of OoT. The scenario of him telling his story to Zelda and the king is extremely probable.

You addressed two of my points but not the third, the drawing would have to be depicting the part of the battle where Link gets the MS knocked out of his hand. And still my other two points stand, it may be very probable but it's not definite so you are still assuming things.

^ It's safe to assume that Ganondorf still tried to get the Triforce in the CT...and that would qualify as outragous

I'll be glad to either cofirm or disconfirm the PH cameo, but I need more info about were I should search for it. Because I'm not going to run through that entired dungeon...Again!;p