The Double ALttP Theory

I’ve been talking about it, and now it’s here. The Double ALttP theory!
First off, I must give some credits to humulos. Without him, this theory simply wouldn’t be. Thank you!

The idea of double ALttP is basically what it sounds like. We’re having two ALttP games, one would be the original ALttP, and the other would be the gameboy remake featuring the Four Sword, each occurring in different periods of time (or the same? Doesn’t really matter), in different timelines.

I came up with this idea while discussing the possibilities of a merged timeline (at least that’s what I think we discussed) with Daphnes. A Link to the Past has some evidence for being in both sides of the split timeline. Where ever you choose to place it, you’ll have to work around some evidence for the other side. So I thought I could as well place it in both, since we have two ALttPs anyway. And that is my main point. As you read ahead, don't forget this!


Here’s my timeline:

tWW- PH---tMC-FS-FSA---ALttP-LA
……/
OoT
…...\
…..MM---TP---LoZ-AoL---OoX---ALttP

The Adult Timeline should be no problem, we’ve been through it loads of times. Split Timeline, tWW and PH occurs, New Hyrule somehow founded, FS Saga happens, FSA ties to ALttP and LA goes after that. Simple.

The Child Timeline then:

Split Timeline, Link is now a child. He stops Ganondorf, and he gets sent into the Twilight Realm. He somehow got the Triforce though, as shown in the infamous TP Execution Scene. As to how he got it, I wish not to discuss here.

Now here’s the tricky part. At the end of TP we see Ganondorf being defeated, but did he really die? In games like LoZ, we see the the Triforce of Power left behind in Ganon’s ashes. But this doesn’t seem to happen in TP for some reason. Let’s for a second assume that Ganondorf isn’t really dead. We’ve seen him being resurrected before, and he might very well only be temporarily gone, still having the ToP. This fits perfectly with LoZ. Ganondorf somehow managed to enter the mortal realm once again, found the Trident of Power and became Blue Ganon.

This is the speculative part. How did Ganondorf get back, and how did he get the Trident?

As to how he got back, I cannot say. He has been reborn and resurrected before though, and I can see it happening again. I will also assume that the Trident of Power is an ancient relic, made before Ocarina of Time, hidden somewhere in Hyrule. In the Adult Timeline, all we know is that Ganondorf aquires the Trident, but we don’t know where it was hidden, except it being in the desert area.

Assume that Ganondorf (TP Ganondorf) found out about it, or it’s location. I don’t think he’d have much trouble finding it, maybe even the ToP guided him in the search for more power. Anyway, that is my answer as to how Ganondorf got the Trident and became Ganon in time for LoZ. He was killed, and Link finally got the ToP from Ganon’s remains.

Then AoL takes place. Here, we see some rather interesting stuff. In the end of AoL Link has the entire tricorce, all three pieces. He then uses its power to awaken Zelda. However the Triforce act completely different here, compared to how it acted in tWW. In this ending, the three pieces didn’t come together to form the Triforce as a whole. The triangles are all separated. Also, the Triforce doesn’t seem to disappear, hinting that Link maybe not actually made a wish (which could make the Triforce go away), but rather the pure precense of Triforce might have been enough to awaken Zelda. In any case, we have three separate Triforces, not one complete and that fits perfectly with the beginning of the Oracles, where the Triforce is in the hand of the Royal Family, but the three pieces are indeed separated.

The Oracles occur here, after AoL. After that, the original ALttP (not the remake featuring the Four Sword) takes place. In ALttP, there’s a maiden telling us:

Originally Posted by Maiden of the Swamp Temple

Link, thanks to you, I was able to escape from the clutches of evil. Thank you! ...The Triforce will grant the wishes of whoever touches it, as long as that person lives... That is why it was hidden in the Golden Land. Blah blah blah

She says the Triforce was hidden in the Golden Land, which would make sense. After the Oracles, or perhaps some other incident, the Royal Family, the sages or whoever thought it would be best to keep the Triforce hidden. That would explain why it’s in the Golden Land in ALttP, and not in the hands of the Royal Family, as it was in the end of AoL.

We all know that the LoZ Ganon wasn’t utterly destroyed. They tried to bring him back in AoL and he actually was back in the Oracles. Again, I assume Ganon somehow managed to get back. He found the Triforce and having dealt with it before, it didn’t split up this time around, just like it did in OoT.

So for this theory to work, I will have to assume that Ganondorf got back on two separate occasions, and that he, the first time around, found the Trident. And of course, I have no evidence to back this up, however we know for a fact that Ganon/dorf keeps coming back all the time, so I can’t see this assumption break the theory. For you who still demand evidence, may I remind you that there’s no explanation as to how the Master Sword ended up in ALttP (Adult Timeline) after it was left behind in tWW, you’d have to make assumptions on that as well. For the sake of it, I will come up with a reasonable explanation right now.

Some fish, like Jabun, made sure it was brought back. We already know he had contact with the KotRL and probably knew much about the old Hyrule. So I can definitely see him swim down there to get it back if it should be needed in the future.


Oh, and then there’s the issue of Link’s Awakening. I decided to place it in the Adult Timeline, because there should be a sea at hand, as the game takes place after the flood. One could argue that there could very well be a nearby sea in the Child Timeline as well. Yes, there could, especially since Link from the Oracles sails off on a ship. I’ve chosen to place LA in the Adult Timeline though for the reason stated above.

Also, there’s a matter of LA DX. As you already know, I’ve chosen to place both ALttP and its remake (featuring the Four Sword) in this timeline theory. So why not any other remakes, hmm?

Well, my reason for this is that LA DX doesn’t really change the story or the setting of the game in any way. However, the ALttP remake does. Had it not been for the remake, the connection FSA-ALttP wouldn’t be as definite as it is. I think the remake certainly stands out from the original, and for this theory, which purpose is to use 2 ALttPs, it certainly makes sense to use the remake in one timeline and the original in the other.

Now, that’s the Double ALttP Theory. This is an unusual timeline, one which I'm actually proud of, and therefoe I will defend it. Just saying Of course, I'll consider everything you have to say about it, so fire away.

Now, discuss!

HAHA! Hombre you thought I was really helping but I plan to shoot down this theory instantly!

Just kidding

You did not tell me the part about the Sea for LA, that is smart. Good thinking.

Oh, and everything said in the final paragraph I repeat verbatim. I shall defend this theory as well.

The theory seems very well structured and very solid. It will be difficult to shatter. Also, it can still keep the two canons, that aLttP happens before (as advertised) and after (what the creator of Zelda said) the original two games, if the settings of the two aLttps are adjusted.

Hey, maybe I can apply my "legalization of the consequences of time travel" theory?

I also have two questions: "is the legend of the sleep spell of the original Zelda being taken into account?" If so: "does she drown in the adult Link time line?"

i read it all and it makes total sense to have happened like this, to pick faults with it thought would take micro-analysing so i believe this is a very valid idea....its a good chance that this is how it went down

This theory is awfully dependent on many your personal assumptions being true. I've never been a fan of the "It can happen, therefore it does happen" type of theorizing.

Had it not been for the remake, the connection FSA-ALttP wouldn’t be as definite as it is. I think the remake certainly stands out from the original, and for this theory, which purpose is to use 2 ALttPs, it certainly makes sense to use the remake in one timeline and the original in the other.

You really think ALttP was attached to FSA, when FSA showed many, many signs of attaching itself to ALttP? The Palace of the the Four Sword strengthens it, yes, but it is hardly the only evidence. The Maidens, Geography, the state of Ganon, even the sprites and music, they all made it apparent that FSA and ALttP were linked, and FSA filled in the plot holes that have arisen over time. To put ALttP in a timeline separate from FSA would have to render many (if not all) of those games' connections pointless (things like how the lost woods came to be, the forest thieves, etc.)

^ I personally have always seen the connection you're talking about, but I know many people who haven't.

This theory is awfully dependent on many your personal assumptions being true. I've never been a fan of the "It can happen, therefore it does happen" type of theorizing.

I think it's a matter of pick and choose. As I said, placing ALttP in the Adult Timeline you must, by your own, think of a reasonable way as to how the sword got back from Ganondorf's head. Also, you'd have make up a reason why you should ignore the evidence of Twinrowa being alive in the Oracles if you place it in the Adult Timeline... unless you just say "cameo".

Originally Posted by GarmGarf

I also have two questions: "is the legend of the sleep spell of the original Zelda being taken into account?" If so: "does she drown in the adult Link time line?"

I am not sure on Hombre's view on this, but I do not take it into account. I don't consider manuals to be canon, and the only thing the game says on the matter is "a sleeping spell was put on Zelda" Though either way, it does not have much bearing on the timeline itself.

I'll admit that a few assumptions are always necessary, but...

by your own, think of a reasonable way as to how the sword got back from Ganondorf's head.

Or accept that it was remade in OoX

Also, you'd have make up a reason why you should ignore the evidence of Twinrowa being alive in the Oracles if you place it in the Adult Timeline... unless you just say "cameo".

Or assume they told the truth when they promised to come back and haunt you.

They are still assumption, yes, but keeping them as few as possible and providing some evidence backed explanations make them easier to accept.

Originally Posted by MercuryMule

This theory is awfully dependent on many your personal assumptions being true. I've never been a fan of the "It can happen, therefore it does happen" type of theorizing.

I too totaly belive in theories based on hard facts, but i do commend a good idea and a possibility also. the difference is acknowledgment of the theory. i wont put confidence into a theory and acknowledge it unless canon fact is applied or a charecter says it themselves during the game.

Look, there are only 3 diffrences in between the SNES and GBA versions.
1. Links uncle says "It is your destiny to save zelda" rather than "Zelda is your..."
2. The Flute is called an Ocarina
3. Watergate temple is called Swamp Temple (maybe to avoid being associated with the watergate scandal?)

I hardly see why these changes prove that Alttp is in both timeline.

However, nintendo retconed this; the Wii version of Alttp, those 2 changes are nonexistant. Since this is the latest version, I think it is the "canon" Alttp, so those changes technically don't even count.

The LA part makes sence though.

However, nintendo retconed this; the Wii version of Alttp, those 2 changes are nonexistant. Since this is the latest version, I think it is the "canon" Alttp, so those changes technically don't even count.

Wii versions are just ports, nothing more. They don't attempt to add anything at all.
The Wii wasn't bringing you the latest version of ALttP, it brought you ALttP from the SNES.

^ On a side note, I wish they'd give us the Mario All-Stars version of Mario bros 3, rather than the original.

Originally Posted by MercuryMule

I'll admit that a few assumptions are always necessary, but...
Or accept that it was remade in OoXOr assume they told the truth when they promised to come back and haunt you.

They are still assumption, yes, but keeping them as few as possible and providing some evidence backed explanations make them easier to accept.

And as I stated, seeing as how Ganon has been comning back multiple times, I think it's a fair assumption.

And, this is just me saying my personal belief, the Master Sword should be considered a cameo in the Oracles. Had it been of any relevance in your quest, that that's another story. But by placing the Oracles before ALttP, this would make sense as well... except for the Triforce. Oh well.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by SheikahSage

Look, there are only 3 diffrences in between the SNES and GBA versions.
1. Links uncle says "It is your destiny to save zelda" rather than "Zelda is your..."
2. The Flute is called an Ocarina
3. Watergate temple is called Swamp Temple (maybe to avoid being associated with the watergate scandal?)

The broken Four Sword?

And, this is just me saying my personal belief, the Master Sword should be considered a cameo in the Oracles.

I'd rather accept in-game facts as canon as best as possible

Had it been of any relevance in your quest, that that's another story.

It was capable of harming ganon without the spin attack, also, it derived it's power from farore, and (seeing as how an oracle's power likely derives from a god) that would mean the new MS's power comes from the goddess. Quite fitting, I think.

^ You have a good point. But I'd rather work my way around that probelm (2 masters swords and whatnot), than working my way around how the Triforce got to the castle in it's current state (if I had plaed it in the Adult Timeline) than placing it where I did, which actually makes it fit pretty nicely.

than working my way around how the Triforce got to the castle in it's current state

I missed something, what was the conflict?

^ Oh. Well here's what I said again:

Originally Posted by myself

Here, we see some rather interesting stuff. In the end of AoL Link has the entire tricorce, all three pieces. He then uses its power to awaken Zelda. However the Triforce act completely different here, compared to how it acted in tWW. In this ending, the three pieces didn’t come together to form the Triforce as a whole. The triangles are all separated. Also, the Triforce doesn’t seem to disappear, hinting that Link maybe not actually made a wish (which could make the Triforce go away), but rather the pure precense of Triforce might have been enough to awaken Zelda. In any case, we have three separate Triforces, not one complete and that fits perfectly with the beginning of the Oracles, where the Triforce is in the hand of the Royal Family, but the three pieces are indeed separated.

I'd say that is one of my main reasons to put the Oracles where they are.

I should probably say, I completely agree with the orders you put the games in

tWW- PH---tMC-FS-FSA---ALttP-LA

Works Great

OoT---MM---TP---LoZ-AoL---OoX---ALttP

Works Great

I simply combine most of the two.

(Also, there wouldn't necessarily be 2 master swords, LoZ's lack of the MS could indicate that it was de-powered at the time, and OoX re-powered it)

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

Oh, and then there’s the issue of Link’s Awakening. I decided to place it in the Adult Timeline, because there should be a sea at hand, as the game takes place after the flood. One could argue that there could very well be a nearby sea in the Child Timeline as well. Yes, there could, especially since Link from the Oracles sails off on a ship. I’ve chosen to place LA in the Adult Timeline though for the reason stated above.

Also, there’s a matter of LA DX. As you already know, I’ve chosen to place both ALttP and its remake (featuring the Four Sword) in this timeline theory. So why not any other remakes, hmm?

Well, my reason for this is that LA DX doesn’t really change the story or the setting of the game in any way. However, the ALttP remake does. Had it not been for the remake, the connection FSA-ALttP wouldn’t be as definite as it is. I think the remake certainly stands out from the original, and for this theory, which purpose is to use 2 ALttPs, it certainly makes sense to use the remake in one timeline and the original in the other.

Actually you could have two LA games in the timeline, one after each ALTTP games. In my opinion it makes more sense.

Although this theory is very well planned out, I have my doubts. How can two completly different timelines (one even flooded and drained) end up looking (almost) exacly alike having (almost) the same events occur?

^ Yes, that would seem weird, wouldn't it? If you think about it though, our own history has repeated itself many times, different cultures with different histories has made the same things (inventions, cultural progression, etc). You'd just have to take that a little further.

Originally Posted by MercuryMule

(Also, there wouldn't necessarily be 2 master swords, LoZ's lack of the MS could indicate that it was de-powered at the time, and OoX re-powered it)

Well, it has happened before (tWW). Also, I didn't think of that, actually. That really makes sense. Good thinking.

OOPS, lots of posts there, made mine kind of moot.

er... nothing to say really, other than I will refresh the page before posting next time. lol.