Questioning the Guide!

Hello, and welcome to another of my, "Tiny piece of evidence" threads. Today I will focus on the Newbies Guide to Theorizing, and analysing one of its statements.
But before I begin I have a few announcements to make. First, to the writers of the Newbies Guide to Theorizing, and to the people that took part in my last thread. A positive community is a good community.
That aside lets begin...

Now, I found a paragraph within the NGTT, (Newbies Guide to Theorizing) that puzzled my mind and proved very interesting. Here it is with good old fashioned copy and paste

"In Twilight Princess, Ganondorf was obviously never sealed in the Sacred Realm. There’s no mention of such a seal, and no mention of Ganondorf’s evil reign. And in the final battle with Ganondorf, he doesn’t recognize Link, not even the Master Sword which he would have if he fought Link in Ocarina of Time. This means Twilight Princess happens after Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask, in the Child Timeline. I’ve also added Phantom Hourglass in the picture, as it’s a no-brainer direct sequel to Wind Waker."

What does this mean? Well here I am going to find evidence within this that DISPROVES the split timeline theory. Ok, lets get started.

Recap, most people know that TP supports the Split, because Ganondorf doesn't recognise the Master Sword, and there was no mention of a seal, while in WW there was both of these, AND Ganondorf recognised Link, supporting the famous parralel quote.

BUT, these words can be made to support the single timeline.
First, if OOT Link had been sent back in time, and had over written the adult timeline, he would have never have fought Ganondorf, and so no seal, mastersword, etc. This doesn't say much.

But, in TP, Link does fight Ganondorf with the master sword, wearing Green Clothes. Ganondorf would not have recognised Link as he only saw OOT Link once in person, and after 100's of years your bound to forget something.

Then moving on, in WW, Ganondorf recognised Link, because he had fought TP Link, and Twilight Princss Zelda.

This would also explain the scene in the Arbiters Grounds with the Sages and Ganondorf.

But one question remains. What was the seal? That is the piece of evidence we are lacking.

So, that is your mission! Help either prove or disprove my evidence! But what I would like to see, if possible, is everyone seeing both sides of the story. More conversion, and views you don't normally look from.

Also, I need some help with another thing I'm preparing. So if you able to give me information on the following subjects that would be great!
The subjects are:
Twinrova
Differences and Similarities between the Arbiters Grounds and the Spirit Temple.
Nabooru.
As a child in OOT, can you visit Saria in the Sacred Forest Meadow, AFTER awakening her as Sage of the Forest?

OK! Begin!

Originally Posted by Arcanra

But, in TP, Link does fight Ganondorf with the master sword, wearing Green Clothes. Ganondorf would not have recognised Link as he only saw OOT Link once in person, and after 100's of years your bound to forget something.

"Bound to forget something"? That's not going to wash.

Put yourself in Ganondorf's position; on a quest to find the most sought after relic in the lands history. I'm fairly sure you'd be able to remember even small details about such a day, especially details like who brought together all the elements needed to gain access to the Sacred Realm.

So, that in no way substitutes for what we already know.

As the writer of the guide which you question, I feel like I should answer you. I'll skip telling you that the proof of the split goes way beyong this piece of evidence. Oh wait, I didn't

Anyway, Ganondorf in tWW talks about the Hero of Time. TP Link wasn't the Hero of Time.... so why would Ganondorf remember the title of the one who sealed him, but not what he looked like? Besides, like DK said, I think you're more or less bound to remember the guy who smote you and your evil plans, sealing you away and all.

Uh, and...what else...? I'm busy, but I'll make an edit if I figure anything out.

Cheers!

While I agree with the split I still disagree with the method the guide uses to convey concepts. Instead of just introducing the concepts and possibilities (for example, seran aileron's guide) it introduces a concept and then tells you what theory to believe. I'll demonstrate this with something already brought up in this thread.

"In Twilight Princess, Ganondorf was obviously never sealed in the Sacred Realm. There’s no mention of such a seal, and no mention of Ganondorf’s evil reign. And in the final battle with Ganondorf, he doesn’t recognize Link, not even the Master Sword which he would have if he fought Link in Ocarina of Time. This means Twilight Princess happens after Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask, in the Child Timeline. I’ve also added Phantom Hourglass in the picture, as it’s a no-brainer direct sequel to Wind Waker."

"obviously never sealed in the Sacred Realm. There’s no mention of such a seal," Really? TP fails to mention many things. A seal could have happened, perhaps not by the sages, but they are not the only ones who can seal the entrance. At the end of OoT, Zelda stresses heavily that the Door of Time has to be closed. Now we know that Ganondorf entered the door as soon as it opened (and this must have happened in the child ending as well as Ganondorf is shown with the ToP) so what would happen if the door was closed after he entered? He becomes sealed in the sacred realm. You may think that this is rendered impossible by TP, but it is not. The details are never specified, it only really says that he was searching for the sacred realm, was caught off-guard (as stated in the japanese version, translated at LA), and then they attempted to execute him. The sealing in the sacred realm fits nicely into the caught off guard part. The alternative to this is that Link and Zelda were horribly irresponsible and the OoT somehow ends with Ganondorf riding around Hyrule causing trouble still. I personally prefer the happy ending.

Now I am not asking you to put this theory into the guide, just to specify that the theories in it are yours, and not by any stretch official (more then the word perhaps). The fact that the guide can even be argued against should be grounds for changing it.

I don't really hold out to much hope for any changes, as I tried this before, but there is no harm in trying again.

Originally Posted by Arcanra

BUT, these words can be made to support the single timeline.
First, if OOT Link had been sent back in time, and had over written the adult timeline, he would have never have fought Ganondorf, and so no seal, mastersword, etc. This doesn't say much.

Ah ah ah, it seems you have forgotten wot I said in your last thread. It would be impossible to overwrite the Adult Timeline as I have demonstrated below.

Originally Posted by humulos

There are two types of timelines, the linear type where nothing in the past affects the future, and the changeable type, where everything in the past affects the future.

We have evidence that Ocarina of Time was a Linear timeline, because no matter wot Link did as a kid, things would still happen exactly the same way in the future. We also have the Song of Storms Paradox. Adult Link learns the Song of Storms from the Windmill Guy, who learned the song from Young Link, who learned the song as an Adult from the Windmill Guy and so on. This shows that the timeline is linear, because that happened no matter wot.

Now, when Zelda sent Link back in time at the end of Ocarina, she (using her powers as Sage of Time) created a parallel timeline and was able to make it a changeable timeline. This is how Ganon was stopped from coming to power, and how the entire game of Majora's mask was possible.

And also, if the Adult timeline was made to be like it never happened, then everyone would not be having a huge party at the end of the game.

Originally Posted by Arcanra

Also, I need some help with another thing I'm preparing. So if you able to give me information on the following subjects that would be great!
The subjects are:
Twinrova
Differences and Similarities between the Arbiters Grounds and the Spirit Temple.
Nabooru.
As a child in OOT, can you visit Saria in the Sacred Forest Meadow, AFTER awakening her as Sage of the Forest?

Um, sure, here is some general information.
Twinrova is kind of like Ganon's "mother". She is the one that pretty much cared for him and wanted him to succeed the most in his plan.
Arbiters Ground and Spirit temple.. I don't have much on that. They could be related, but it is more likely related to the Gerudo Fortress, due to them both functioning as a prison.
Nabooru... is a Sage.
And yes, you can visit Saria as a child after she has been awakened, because that only happens in the Adult Timeline, and it also occurs 7 years later. In the Child Timeline the original Sage of Forest is never killed by Ganon, creating no need for Saria to ever become a Sage.

And a good place to go for more info on Zelda things would be Main Page - Zelda Wiki.org

Originally Posted by MercuryMule

Now I am not asking you to put this theory into the guide, just to specify that the theories in it are yours, and not by any stretch official (more then the word perhaps). The fact that the guide can even be argued against should be grounds for changing it.

I don't really hold out to much hope for any changes, as I tried this before, but there is no harm in trying again.

Well, as I said, if some of the people this guide targets were to have some trouble understanding or something alike, I'd change it. So... that's what I'll do. I just need to find out a good way of doing so. So there you go, MercuryMule ;-)

EDIT: As for editing, Humulos, I may have to steal that quote of yours, if that's ok with you.

Originally Posted by Hombre de Mundo

EDIT: As for editing, Humulos, I may have to steal that quote of yours, if that's ok with you.

No complaints here, by all means go ahead.

[QUOTE=humulos;1797066]Ah ah ah, it seems you have forgotten wot I said in your last thread. It would be impossible to overwrite the Adult Timeline as I have demonstrated below.

Thanks for the replies! However I still refuse to accept the things on my other thread. However I might be persuaded if you could give me on paradox that would be created if there was a single timeline.

twinrova are the surrogate mothers of Ganondorf

^I'm confused. What has that got to do with anything?