Is it Just Me?

Is it Just Me or is Nintendo making it easier for us to theorize on the timeline? Now, I doubt they'll ever release one, and I hope they don't. If anything all they should do is confirm placements for games, IN other games. (But thats beside the point.) Anyway, lets start with the stuff most everybody agrees upon.

OoT - - - TWW - PH
OoT - MM - TP


This much we Know, for sure and is undebateable at this point in time. Now what we don't know is what comes before and after (if anything). But, Nintendo has dropped suttle hints as what games are connected. Obviously FS and FSA are connected directly, and I'm of the boat that TMC is directly before them (some will argue with me on that point) and LoZ is directly connected with AoL. And that Alttp is before them. The oracles are still an enigma, most of us not knowing where to put them in most scenarios.

So we have the undisputable order above, and

TMC (Somewhere before) - FS - FSA

Alttp (Somewhere before) - LoZ - AoL

and, what is not necessarily proven, but in general agreed upon,

OoS - OoA

Now, all of these games, can be easily linked together, (though not indisputably) with the main lines we have. A great number believe that FSA and Alttp are connected, because of the significance that Ganon has a trident (among other things). So, now we have,

(TMC) - FS - FSA - Alttp - LoZ - AoL

All of the games in the FS saga minorly reference TWW, but since the addition of PH (Which is indisputably after TWW) and the focus on force gems, they are now all heavily referenced to be after PH & TWW. (Don't ask me how, or why, but evidence highly suggests such a position.)

So now we have . . .


Oot - - - TWW - PH - TMC - FS - FSA
Oot - MM - TP

Now, there is some (some, not alot, but some) evidence that Alttp comes after TP (such as the crumbling temple of time in the Forest, perhaps referencing the same place where the master sword is found in Alttp). But the evidence for it coming after FSA contradicts this (If we are to asume that FSA goes in the same timeline as TWW). So,

Alttp - LoZ - AoL

can be tacked on to either side of the timeline (Obviously with dispute as to where) But seeing as there is probably a little more evidence connecting them to FSA, so for the sake of productivity, I'll put them there. And now we have


Oot - - - TWW - PH - TMC - FS - FSA - Alttp - LoZ - AoL
Oot - MM - TP

Now the only games left are the oracles, and the Oh so esteemed Tingle game
(Tingle RPG) Now I'm foggy as to where the oracles go, but apparently there are references to Aol in them, so We'll put them after AoL

Oot - - - TWW - PH - TMC - FS - FSA - Alttp - LoZ - AoL - OoS - OoA
Oot - MM - TP

And the Tinle game, probably going either inbetween OoT and MM or during OoT in Termina (this explains the fact that Tingle can dimension hop, and that he can stay alive as long as he has rupees.) severing the "Oh, MM and TWW must be in the same timeline,and directly after eachother, because tingles in both" argument.

Now granted there are people who will debate this until they are six feet under, but this is the easiest way to put it, combining the already confirmed lines

OoT - - - TWW - PH
OoT - MM - TP
and using the easiest possible connections for the rest. Seeing as how most of the time the easiest solutions are the most effective, this is the end result . . .

Oot - - - TWW - PH - TMC - FS - FSA - Alttp - LoZ - AoL - OoS - OoA
Oot - MM - TP

But anyways, with the main part of this thread being, it's getting easier. With the help of developer confirmations, and the release of PH it's getting considerably easier to place games (with the exception of the oracles).
I had no Idea what to do with any of the non-confirmed games until the evidence and connections of the force gems (there are about 3 other threads debating it right now) cleared it up. I was reluctant to change my opinion on OoT being first, but I couldn't necessarily find A boatload of information on why TMC couldn't come before it, so I was at least open to the possibility. Now, I may be completely wrong, but as of right now, from the arguments I've seen, there is no doubt in my mind that the FS saga comes after TWW & PH.


Am I the only one who is now having less trouble? Is it getting easier for anyone else. I hypothesize that Nintendo is taking most of the current games and puting them in one timeline while leaving room in the other for many (not necessarily direct, but subsequent) sequels, now you could do that with my set-up, or the other reigning theory as of right now . . .

TMC - Oot - - - TWW - PH
TMC - Oot - MM - TP - FS - FSA - Alttp - LoZ - AoL - OoS - OoA

either way, one of the two is very open.

Am I completely insane in this, or is it getting easier? And does anyone else think it's going to keep getting easier, as it has been since shortly after TP's release? Also, what of my hypothesis?

Originally Posted by That One Guy...

Now, there is some (some, not alot, but some) evidence that Alttp comes after TP (such as the crumbling temple of time in the Forest, perhaps referencing the same place where the master sword is found in Alttp).

Of course.

But since this is the very same place that has appeared in a game in the Adult Timeline, it obviously exists there, also.

This is sort of one of the problems with TP; its references to other games come mostly in the form of references to OoT, which inevitably means references to people, places, items, and events that are not exclusive to the Child Timeline (this was part of the reason why it was somewhat difficult at first for some to interpret Ganondorf's involvement in the way Aonuma described; especially because of the Triforce situation, which you would think would not exist in the Child Timeline).

Examples include:
--the Fisherman Guy,
--the wars over the Sacred Realm (joint-reference, IMO, to the wars before OoT/the IW),
--the "Hylian" appearance of the "ancient sages" (who also existed before OoT), and, of course,
--the Master Sword pedestal being in the Temple of Time (duh) [the Temple of Time being in the forest inevitably becomes a retcon that affects the entire continuity, and thus is not a reference to ALttP exclusive to TP].

What about timelines which split but then join.
Like;

----------------???
---------------/------/
-------------ooa----oos
----------------/---/
-----------------???

----------------???
---------------/------/
-------------ooa----oos
----------------/---/
-----------------???

Aonuma said TP and TWW were paralell hence they'll never join up again.

I do sort of agree upon this but I belive for the TMC-... To come on the child side of the timeline.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Of course.

But since this is the very same place that has appeared in a game in the Adult Timeline, it obviously exists there, also.

Where does it exist in the other timeline?

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

This is sort of one of the problems with TP; its references to other games come mostly in the form of references to OoT, which inevitably means references to people, places, items, and events that are not exclusive to the Child Timeline (this was part of the reason why it was somewhat difficult at first for some to interpret Ganondorf's involvement in the way Aonuma described; especially because of the Triforce situation, which you would think would not exist in the Child Timeline).

To the contrary, I would (and do) think it existed just as it does in the Adult timeline. It's a rather complicated complex, but I would still think it exist just the same, perhaps I'll post another thread on it . . .

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Examples include:
--the Fisherman Guy,
--the wars over the Sacred Realm (joint-reference, IMO, to the wars before OoT/the IW),
--the "Hylian" appearance of the "ancient sages" (who also existed before OoT), and, of course,
--the Master Sword pedestal being in the Temple of Time (duh) [the Temple of Time being in the forest inevitably becomes a retcon that affects the entire continuity, and thus is not a reference to ALttP exclusive to TP].

--What Fisherman Guy?
--of course
-- Yes, those sages having never been killed by Ganondorf, because the events of Adult OoT never happening
--I tend to believe that as well, but so many people were opposed to it, I was posting that part for thier benefit. I've always just thought that the TP map, was/is just an enhanced version of the OoT map.

Originally Posted by trinest

What about timelines which split but then join.
Like;

----------------???
---------------/------/
-------------ooa----oos
----------------/---/
-----------------???

They would never join again, perhaps eventually they would end up having the same events take place, and the same existence of everything, but there would still be two timelines, albiet redundant ones.

Originally Posted by Pinecove

I do sort of agree upon this but I belive for the TMC-... To come on the child side of the timeline.

You believe that TMC comes first right? If you do, then TMC wouldn't be exclusive to either timeline. It would be before the split, making it's events ultimatly effect events in both later timelines.

You believe that TMC comes first right? If you do, then TMC wouldn't be exclusive to either timeline. It would be before the split, making it's events ultimatly effect events in both later timelines.

Yes I'm actually in a sort of a stump between two timelines.

TMC-OoT-TWW/PH
TMC-OoT/MM-TP-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL-OoS/OoA

and

OoT/MM-TP
OoT-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL-OoS/OoA

However no game can be on either side of the timeline.

Originally Posted by That One Guy...

Where does it exist in the other timeline?

The Temple of Time exists in OoT.
Thus, we'd naturally assume that exists after OoT, and this means in both timelines.

To the contrary, I would (and do) think it existed just as it does in the Adult timeline.

I agree with you, as to think anything else inevitably requires that we make something up about how the Triforce split up in the doing.

I'm just saying that others have a problem with it.

--What Fisherman Guy?
--of course
-- Yes, those sages having never been killed by Ganondorf, because the events of Adult OoT never happening
--I tend to believe that as well, but so many people were opposed to it, I was posting that part for thier benefit. I've always just thought that the TP map, was/is just an enhanced version of the OoT map.

1) The photo of the Fisherman Guy from OoT in the Fishing Hole in TP.
2) Yep.
3) Who said those sages were ever killed by Ganondorf?
4) I would cite the reason for the Temple of Time moving being simply that TP's gameplay benefits more from a major dungeon not being located in the central town (the move to the forest is of course a reference to ALttP; but as it's simply a retcon, it applies to the Temple of Time in general, and is therefore not a TP-exclusive reference to ALttP any more than TP featuring the Master Sword is).

"Parallel" could simply mean that there is no connection (which there isn't; TP's story doesn't lead into TWW's in any concrete way).

Originally Posted by Pinecove

However no game can be on either side of the timeline.

Except those that are before OoT

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

The Temple of Time exists in OoT.
Thus, we'd naturally assume that exists after OoT, and this means in both timelines.

Oh, okay, I get it now, but unfortunately after TWW it gets "washed away" so there It wouldn't be. It's interesting to think how the MS would get to Alttp though, if we are to asume that it comes after TWW. It was Kind of . . . In Ganondorf's head . . .

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

I agree with you, as to think anything else inevitably requires that we make something up about how the Triforce split up in the doing.

I'm just saying that others have a problem with it.

I have a pretty decent idea as to how it cold have happened. I'm writing it all down, and will probably post it as a thread sometime this week.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

1) The photo of the Fisherman Guy from OoT in the Fishing Hole in TP.
2) Yep.
3) Who said those sages were ever killed by Ganondorf?
4) I would cite the reason for the Temple of Time moving being simply that TP's gameplay benefits more from a major dungeon not being located in the central town (the move to the forest is of course a reference to ALttP; but as it's simply a retcon, it applies to the Temple of Time in general, and is therefore not a TP-exclusive reference to ALttP any more than TP featuring the Master Sword is).

1) Oh yeah, I forgot about that. On my first play through I didn't spend much time in there, I'm on my second playthrough now, I think I'll go there tomorrow.
3)Well, since the events of Adult Links time period never occured in the child timeline, new sages never had to be re-awakened. Which leads me to the conclusion that the old sages (TP's) were never killed, and/or removed from sage duty in some way. Which is why they exist in TP.
4) My point exactly


Edit:Wow, I totally just realized that I forgot "Link's Awakening" in my initial post, Luckily there is no dispute of the fact that it is a direct continuation of Alttp.

Originally Posted by That One Guy...

Oh, okay, I get it now, but unfortunately after TWW it gets "washed away" so there It wouldn't be.

Which is fine.

That explains why there aren't any ruins around the pedestal in ALttP.

It's interesting to think how the MS would get to Alttp though, if we are to asume that it comes after TWW. It was Kind of . . . In Ganondorf's head . . .

There's a Master Sword made in Oracles...

Well, since the events of Adult Links time period never occured in the child timeline, new sages never had to be re-awakened. Which leads me to the conclusion that the old sages (TP's) were never killed, and/or removed from sage duty in some way. Which is why they exist in TP.

Who said they were different sages to begin with? (The difference in appearance is in my opinion negligible, as the maidens in FSA all take on fairy-like avatar forms; the "wise men" forms seem to be avatar-like as well.)

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

There's a Master Sword made in Oracles...

was there? unfortunately I've never played them, and all I know about them has come through another party. However, it doesn't make a difference if the oracles are after Alttp.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

Who said they were different sages to begin with? (The difference in appearance is in my opinion negligible, as the maidens in FSA all take on fairy-like avatar forms; the "wise men" forms seem to be avatar-like as well.)

Well, there were obviously sages of each temple before the ones Link awakened, the temples would have been nothing without them. And as Link never goes forward in time to awaken them, they were never awakened as the temples sages, so the sages bfore them had the duty, because they were never killed.

Originally Posted by That One Guy...

However, it doesn't make a difference if the oracles are after Alttp.

If.

Well, there were obviously sages of each temple before the ones Link awakened, the temples would have been nothing without them. And as Link never goes forward in time to awaken them, they were never awakened as the temples sages, so the sages bfore them had the duty, because they were never killed.

1) There weren't sages of each temple during OoT that were awakened, as far as we can tell.
2) The predecessors of the OoT sages didn't necessarily have to exist during OoT, either.

Originally Posted by That One Guy...

Is it Just Me or is Nintendo making it easier for us to theorize on the timeline? Now, I doubt they'll ever release one, and I hope they don't. If anything all they should do is confirm placements for games, IN other games. (But thats beside the point.) Anyway, lets start with the stuff most everybody agrees upon.

OoT - - - TWW - PH
OoT - MM - TP


This much we Know, for sure and is undebateable at this point in time.

why can't MM exist in both timelines? that would explain tingle's existence in TWW, and since (forgive me if i'm otherwise uninformed) aonuma has only declared TWW and TP as being parallel (right?), then who's to say the time split doesn't happen after MM?

and along with the idea of timesplits? do u think that could be a result of the constant time travel in OoT and MM?

Originally Posted by shadow_link_08

why can't MM exist in both timelines? that would explain tingle's existence in TWW, and since (forgive me if i'm otherwise uninformed) aonuma has only declared TWW and TP as being parallel (right?), then who's to say the time split doesn't happen after MM?

and along with the idea of timesplits? do u think that could be a result of the constant time travel in OoT and MM?

MM is proven to be a direct sequel to the events of "Kid" Link, and because of the severe difference in events in the adult timeline, not to mention a lack of Link being there, would make it impossible for MM to come after adult OoT. Theoretically, you are correct, but all the info we have from MM disproves you, also the split occurs before MM takes place. No, I don't beliieve it could be a result of that, it's because Link went back in time after the adult OoT ending, and changed events, so therefore to avoid pushing the other timeline into complete non-existence, nintendo opted to agree with the split.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

If.

True, but (and maybe I'm being stubborn) if there was another master sword created I doubt it would have the same abilities as the original. Merely an extremely powerful immitation sword, not truly worthy of the title "Master". And since Alttp has the master sword and it is seemingly the same sword as in all of the other games, I'm reluctant to believe this new sword would work nearly as well.

Originally Posted by LexLionHart

1) There weren't sages of each temple during OoT that were awakened, as far as we can tell.
2) The predecessors of the OoT sages didn't necessarily have to exist during OoT, either.

1)true but it's logi